Speculation: 2024-25 - Free Agency/Trade Thread
- Thread starter All Mighty
- Start date
FiveTacos
Registered User
I don't think he's been the best defensive dman lately. He's still all right, but I don't think he's been so good that it's worth rotating the young guys. I'd rather get value for him and have our 4 kids playing regularly, and find a cheap #7 for injury insurance.
McDonald19
Registered User
Easy to grab a 7th d off waivers. Don’t need to bring Luneau or Hinds up to sit in the pressbox after the Dumoulin trade.
I agree. Honestly the biggest surprise was helleson forcing his way into the lineup regularly. Imo, I tend to think you have 2 D who can provide offense and 4 that lean more on the D side. Without Dumo were closer to 3 and 3. The same if you sit Helleson. Which is why we've been seeing Z and Minty swap healthy scratches. IMO.
- Jul 25, 2012
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Boo Boo
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- Jan 31, 2013
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So which is it ? Are we sitting young dmen as part of a development plan or are we actively trying to move dumoulin out so they can play every game?
The Midnight Burrito
True Fan
Luckily we have a developmental rationale ready to backwards-justify any roster move!
Hockey Duckie
Registered User
Ohhh... So what you're saying is the Ducks created this deferred contract on purpose to symbolically say, "Vatrano accepted a 3-year, $18 mil contract today." But in actuality, the cap hit today is $4.57 mil AAV. That is what Vatrano is worth today than $6 mil AAV.
I was confused why we were giving Vatrano a $6 mil AAV contract b/c he isn't worth that type of contract. A $4.57 mil AAV contract is a much more aligned to how much he would be offered if he hits the FA mark, which is under a $1 mil AAV increase to his current contract at $3.650 mil AAV.
Thx for the explanation! Imma try to break it down for everyone else that was lost on how the deferment value and cap hit value works.
Let us say the Ducks want to pay Vatrano around $4.57 mil AAV. How do we get there?
Current money, or actual contract: $9 mil
+ Deferred money value in 10 years time (future value, which is depreciated): $x 
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Current contract + depreciated deferred money value: $13.71 mil (or $4.57 mil AAV)
That unknown value ($x) probably was set to a nice round figure of $9 mil when depreciated. Which got them into the $4.5 mil range. They probably gave the NHL a table of current cash values to figure out what the depreciated value would be in 10 years time (and distributed evenly over a 10 year period) in order to finish the equation presented above.
Presentative payment vs Actual payment (Cap hit purposes)
What is the deferment's value in terms of today's value? $9 mil, or $3 mil AAV.
- The contract is worth $9 mil and the deferred payment is worth $9 mil today. That gets us to the presentation payment contract of $18 mil.
What is the future depreciated value of the deferment in 10 year's time? $4.71 mil, or $1.57 mil AAV.
- The contract is worth $9 mil today, but the $9 mil deferred payment in 10 year's time is projected to depreciate its value to $4.71 mil. Then the actual payment value of Vatrano's contract is $13.71 mil, or $4.57 mil AAV. That is the cap hit, since the deferred money isn't collected today, but in 10 year's time, which is distributed over a 10 year period.
- Jul 25, 2012
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I agree here, but my guess is PV is kicking tires to see if a desperate team might pay more now
I’d be shocked if he was moved prior to week of deadline tho, also wouldn’t be shocked if we find a vet dmen cap dump signed through next year to act as our 7th
The problem is that the article alludes to his value being close to what the Ducks traded him for. Personally, if I had to choose between a 4th and Dumoulin for the rest of the season, I would choose the player. However, the point is moot if Dumoulin wants out.
Dr Johnny Fever
RIP Grizzly 399
I wonder if Verbeek actually realizes it isn't good sitting both Z2 and Minty half the remaining games. If so that could be a reason for moving Dumo early vs trying to squeeze the last dollar of value out of him at the TDL.
Deuce22
Registered User
TheDarkWingThatDucks
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- Oct 30, 2024
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The duality of this sub…. And this isn’t bashing you, just generalities.
We are winning and the Trouba / Dumo shutdown pairing is helpful. Tough when going 4-1 against top teams in the league to continue the fire Cronin talk that all this sub talked about for the first month and a half of the season.
Well the young players aren’t developing sitting in the press box with Scotty, trade Dumo, team starts losing because we are having 21 year old players with under 80 games playing above the weight class. Well we aren’t winning and the players are not putting up stats, we are ruining their development ! And it’s all Cronin and verbeeks fault.
Well if we wait til the trade deadline, Verbeek is trying to squeeze every ounce of Dumo’s worth is being a bad gm because he is wasting development of Minty and OZ by having them sit games, but then when playing a losing they still aren’t developing them properly, and then if he trades Dumo for a 4th he didn’t get enough value what a shitty GM.
We shouldn’t be losing on purpose anymore because apparently players can’t overcome a losing culture, but then we should trade our shutdown pairing LHD to open up room for 21 year old defensemen to play every night, and probably start losing more, because development is what matters.
I am just confused as to what this sub really wants.
If he's only getting us a 4th just wait til the deadline. Can't predict injuries, and I don't think Minty or Zellweger are really lighting the world on fire. Make them earn it.
Hockey Duckie
Registered User
I'm confused with that Verbeek wants. Putting Dumo-Trouba together means two youths together as a third pairing with third pairing minutes. The youths are to fend for themselves. It feels weird b/c that means the development is on the back burner on two levels: three youths on a rotation and three youths battling each other for third pairing minutes.
Dumo-Trouba is better than splitting them up with youths/rookie (Helleson).
Because we don't have fringe, vet D signed in the AHL, we can't send one of the youths down to the AHL to play in a top-4/top-pairing role and in all situations.
Now, we hear Dumo is being shopped. So we're gonna split up the defensive duo of Dumo-Trouba because we don't want the kids sitting. We're still gonna be sitting a youth b/c we will have to bring up a youth as the 7th D on away games.
It's a confusing mess in the short term.
I’m on the left handed cigarettes but hear me out.
What if we used Dumo and possibly a pick with him depending on the player to add a RW. One that might be tweening, can be a goal scorer but not getting a chance somewhere or whatever the situation. Even a UFA (maybe not add the pick again depending who it is). Basically a team that needs to improve Defense and can spare a RW for whatever reason.
So we add this magical scorer or potential scorer and run with these lines?
Vatrano - Strome - Terry
Cutter - MacTavish - Leason
Zegras - Carlsson -
Fabbri - Lundestrom - Killorn
You have your lines and make the 4th line more of a shutdown line. I think Killorn would be more effective in that setting than playing with the skill guys we have. Place the new possible scorer (maybe even a vet would be good) to play with Z and Leo. I’m sure none of this will happen but I think that might be more of a boost to the lineup and matter more going forward then a random 3rd is really going to do.
What if we used Dumo and possibly a pick with him depending on the player to add a RW. One that might be tweening, can be a goal scorer but not getting a chance somewhere or whatever the situation. Even a UFA (maybe not add the pick again depending who it is). Basically a team that needs to improve Defense and can spare a RW for whatever reason.
So we add this magical scorer or potential scorer and run with these lines?
Vatrano - Strome - Terry
Cutter - MacTavish - Leason
Zegras - Carlsson -
Fabbri - Lundestrom - Killorn
You have your lines and make the 4th line more of a shutdown line. I think Killorn would be more effective in that setting than playing with the skill guys we have. Place the new possible scorer (maybe even a vet would be good) to play with Z and Leo. I’m sure none of this will happen but I think that might be more of a boost to the lineup and matter more going forward then a random 3rd is really going to do.
FlyingV09
Registered User
I was reading the Insider Trading segment and they mentioned Ryan Strome as someone the Leafs are looking at. Probably nothing to it but interesting nonetheless.
Dr Johnny Fever
RIP Grizzly 399
I merely offered it as a possibility of Verbeek’s thinking. I think most people believe that talented young players should be playing somewhere rather than just sitting.
MMC
Global Moderator
dracom
Registered User
wonder if verbeek will go for a legit top line winger this season as a show of confidence in the team for playing well. the offense needs desperate help.
robbieboy3686
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dracom
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