robbieboy3686
Registered User
- Jan 17, 2016
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lol what did you expect he sucks!
Clearly verbeek valued the minutes he’s gobbled up so the kids could play proper minutes more than we imagined.
Speculation: 2024-25 - Free Agency/Trade Thread
- Thread starter All Mighty
- Start date
WhatTheDuck
9 - 20 - 8
I'm sort of getting a sense that the toughest bandaids are going to be ripped off in short order
Ducks DVM
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WhatTheDuck
9 - 20 - 8
Longest tenured guys being moved, I can see the Gibby to Carolina thing coming to fruition sooner rather than later. They've lost 7 of their last 11, likely want a shake up themselves.
We'll have a pause on any significant movement for awhile after that, likely until after Z is back. Evaluating the group after the Trouba/Fowler/Gibson moves will be the excuse to keep Cronin until at least later in the year (when paying two coaches is also a huge part of that).
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Mixed feelings. Fowler served this team well for years. One of the best draft picks ever by the team. Really nice person. I truly wish him well, and I hope he finds his game again in St. Louis, and they make the playoffs.
That being said, he struggled this year and doesn't fit the team as well as other players. The return is not much but the Ducks needed a vet on defense when they were stripping things down. Yes, 2-3 years ago, they could have received more, but the Ducks would have had to give up more to acquire someone to replace Cam 2-3 years ago.
He served his purpose, and I am grateful/thankful for his time here. Thanks Cam.
That being said, he struggled this year and doesn't fit the team as well as other players. The return is not much but the Ducks needed a vet on defense when they were stripping things down. Yes, 2-3 years ago, they could have received more, but the Ducks would have had to give up more to acquire someone to replace Cam 2-3 years ago.
He served his purpose, and I am grateful/thankful for his time here. Thanks Cam.
robbieboy3686
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- Jan 17, 2016
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The last few seasons fowler was essentially the old car we all have had, that we ran into the ground for the sake of waiting ( waiting for new money for an upgrade ) in this sense we wanted the kids to not be over worked themselves. It’s just good business, nothing personal. He’s a highly paid dude. He’s fine. The 180 by sicard and Rudolph is second level. They have been shitting on verbeek and the “
Log jam” after the Trouba trade, now look at them. When they don’t agree with something, they go out of their way to almost spam the entire narrative opposing them. All good though, I still enjoy their podcast.
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AngelDuck
Rak 'em up
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He’s just not very good anymore so there’s no surprise we had to retain and only got a middling return.
I’m just glad we’re moving on
I’m just glad we’re moving on
robbieboy3686
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It shows he’s doing what he has to firstly to get better now( our kids are better than fowler now and Trouba is better than them as well right now) while also not wanting to disrupt more development. The time to be happy to receive picks is over. We need to start impacting the roster as well as have cap space to sign some big pieces via free agency or trade.
I think this is a perspective issue; weaponizing cap isn't just taking on bad contracts. If the Rangers retained, it would have required more/better assets for the trade. He weaponized the cap space he had to lower Trouba's trade value because he didn't need him retained. Additionally, the Ducks need to reach the cap floor. If Verbeek is planning on trading some of the more expensive vets, they need to balance the cap.
I’m fine with taking on a full contract and the Rangers not retaining, but why did we throw in extra picks? Don’t get me wrong I’m not super upset with the trades or returns, but I’m not seeing anything showing he’s actually weaponizing cap, unless you think us throwing in a late round pick to do the Rangers a favor is that?
Trouba Dumoulin is a better roster fit than Fowler Dumoulin. The value is in that upgrade. PV needed the cap space to make that upgrade. Cap space weaponized.
In fairness, the Carolina goalie was spectacular in the Ottawa game they lost. He is their Dostal so it remains to be seen if Carolina will want to take on Gibson for 2.5 years when they have a potential 1A already playing for them. We'll see. Detroit on the other hand...
WhatTheDuck
9 - 20 - 8
A lot of this team's 5on5 and special teams issues could be wallpapered over to some extent, if we weren't starting without the puck after each stoppage nearly 10% more often than an average faceoff team and almost 15% more than a good one.
Leo and Mac getting better at draws is paramount, but honestly I think we need to swap Lundy out for a veteran C we can rely on as a faceoff specialist. It could go a lot further than a 4C upgrade normally would
Leo and Mac getting better at draws is paramount, but honestly I think we need to swap Lundy out for a veteran C we can rely on as a faceoff specialist. It could go a lot further than a 4C upgrade normally would
WhatTheDuck
9 - 20 - 8
They got Kotchekov signed to a nice cheap deal for the same term remaining as Gibson though, only 2M per. With enough retention on Gibby, they have really solid 1A/B tandem that is still quite affordable, and the younger goalie isn't forced to take any more of the net than he earns over the next couple years.
Either Fowler didn't want to go or PV didn't want to move him in 22 or 23. But, once Zell, Mint, Lacombe arrived in 23/24, needed to have vets to help them and shelter them. Paying big in either AAV or term for guys in free agency to endure 3-4 years of losing.
This is the hard part of the rebuild. Kids are still not there yet but, the team needs some help to get over the next hump. Free agents see a 60 point team from last season and a 70 point pace team this season. Still a good 20 points away from a PO spot.
Something has to happen, either a kid taking a monster step or PV pulls off a trade to add someone before the turnover is shown as a leap of faith that the team will get better after that trade. Or unless someone is convinced to sign that can help kickstart that turnaround.
FiveTacos
Registered User
Weaponizing cap is difficult with a rising cap ... the pressure shifts from the cap ceiling teams to the cap floor teams. A lot of teams up against it now will have a little breathing room after the season when the cap goes up and they let a couple guys walk.
It's also hard to weaponize when dealing on a player with less than 2 years of term left. You want to get paid for a dump? Go take on someone's 5 year overpaid headache. 1 or 2 years? That's nothing, plenty of takers for that.
Hell even the biggest cap dump headache last year ended up not being a paid cap dump at all (PLD). I think there's fewer true cap dump candidates than people realize ... a lot of guys are simply too underperforming or have too much term or have a NMC and thus are virtually un-dump-able. The ones that can play but are just overpaid will still have value to someone who has a need and cap space. It's actually a very narrow window of players that are truly undesirable enough that a team will pay to get rid of them, yet good enough for one team to be willing to hold their nose on the contract to get something to take them.
PV had cap space to make that trade twice. Why is he paying to do that. Hardly weaponizing, that’s just using the cap space he never utilized in the summer because he struck out (which I’m ok with.)
With all that said, I’ve said people shouldn’t take things PV says at face value about free agents and prospects, so I should take my own advice about weaponizing cap.
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I think it's semantics. He used his available cap space to make the team better and it didn't cost much of anything in the terms of real assets. He also doesn't have any players he doesn't want, at least that would be the assumption.
Who’s next to move? I don’t understand why Gibson isn’t gone by now based on the Fowler return. Verbeek is going to eat at least 2.5 million and trade him with McGinn for something like Kotkaniemi and Kotchekov because he isn’t capable of signing good free agents so Jesperi is probably a better outcome.
Vatrano is also very unlikely to extend with us too. But don’t expect a late 1st for him. The best outcome would be a roster player like Frederic if he is willing to extend with us. But more likely is just 2nd pick years from now who we miss terribly on, and a prospect bust needing a change.
I still think we end up in the bottom 5 if not 3, unless we get some momentum from firing Cronin at year end.
Vatrano is also very unlikely to extend with us too. But don’t expect a late 1st for him. The best outcome would be a roster player like Frederic if he is willing to extend with us. But more likely is just 2nd pick years from now who we miss terribly on, and a prospect bust needing a change.
I still think we end up in the bottom 5 if not 3, unless we get some momentum from firing Cronin at year end.
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People seem to not understand the concept of “weaponizing” cap space. You can only hold a gun to someone’s head when they have no other options. There’s plenty of guys who are overpaid but still have value. When there are multiple suitors (even at a discount price) for them you have to outbid your competition. That’s what the Trouba trade was.
Nooo! Don't you know that trades only happen like in EA NHL 24, where you can fleece the ai and every trade has to have a winner, because every other GM is an AI fool who does trades in a vacuum.
