Speculation: 2024-25 - Free Agency/Trade Thread

Anaheim4ever

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Jun 15, 2017
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Makes the Drysdale/Cutter trade look even better
Yup. Jiricek can really hammer the Puck, hit people and has size. It'll take him time but he was my favorite D prospect in the 2022 draft. Columbus seemed to mismanage him from the start.
Even Jiricek's weakest area skating isn't bad at all, he was touted as being a good skater in the 2022 draft he just needs to improve it. Size and hockey IQ cannot be improved which is gonna hold Drysdale back imo.
 

Firequacker

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Jun 3, 2022
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This is a prime example of how you use "statistics" to dissemble. Yes - Dostal has had bad games.
So you're going to focus on those 3 games (not back to back) rather than the overall numbers (which are very good). Cherry picking at its finest, particularly when you consider that a goalie can play well and still give up a lot of goals (particularly on recent ducks teams).

And then you're going to take a 10-15 game sample and interpret it w/o any context - the exact context I provided which goes against your narrative (i.e., the atypical structure of the ducks schedule, with fewer games of the stated period, made playing Dostal a lot the correct choice). Notably, you didn't address this.

By analogy, I could claim that playing Dostal as the ducks did is "obviously" a good thing because his save percentage is .922 which I believe is top 5 in the league. He's also leading the league in goals saved metrics. I mean, the results speak for themselves, don't they? The ducks are obviously doing the right thing - after all its recorded history that Dostal has played VERY well this year before Gibson returned!

You think your "numbers" are dispositive. They are not, particularly because you cherry pick the numbers to reflect your narrative. You are selecting the "recorded history" which fits your narrative. This is not the first time.

Interpretation of raw data (as you attempt to do) has nuance and doesn't dictate solely one clearly correct conclusion. That is why "statistics lie" and your charts convince no one - most people understand what your doing here.
Unfortunately, you're doing a bit of the same thing you're calling out here.

From the start of the season to the day before Gibson's return, Dostal played 11 games. Of the 72 goalies who played during that span, 5 played in 12 games and 7 played in 11. So, a little more than a third of the league, all good so far. No other goalie who played that number of games had a backup who played fewer than 3, while Reimer played in 2. All good, lines up with your point about the Ducks playing fewer games.
But your assumption that the lower number of games spread them out more isn't accurate. The Ducks had fewer games because they started latest, not because the schedule was less dense. If you condense the timeframe to only include the time after the Ducks started play, Dostal's 11 games are matched or exceeded by only two goalies: Saros and Vasilevskiy. It's the other teams' goalies who were benefiting from a more spread out pace. Also worth noting, during that stretch, he faced the fourth highest shots/60 and sixth highest high danger shots/60 in the league. You have to go down to 9 GP to find anyone whose workload was even close.

Dostal does need to learn to be a starter, but this is not a wholly reasonable learning experience. This over a longer timeframe is exactly how Gibson got Gibson'd. And the fact is, Dostal absolutely did crater at the end of a stretch where he played more games with a higher workload than nearly any other goalie in the league. That's not cherry picking, it's a valid data point. If it were three random games being held up as representative, that would be cherry picking. Pointing out that Dostal crashed at the end of a high workload and bounced back after Gibson relieved some of that workload is perfectly valid analysis of the underlying stats.

The sample size is too small to conclusively prove anything, for sure. But the argument is more reasonable than you're giving it credit for.
 

Dr Johnny Fever

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I'm not sure what the Gibson love affair is all about. The Ducks aren't competing for anything this year, he's already asked out, his play has currently come back to life and there are teams who really need goaltending. Whatever he's worth, now is the time to move him. Dostal's growth will in no way be stunted by not having Gibby around.
 

Ducks DVM

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Jun 6, 2010
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Our coaching staff has proven that they will ride a player into the ground if the options are inferior enough. Dostal also had his play fall off when he was being given too many starts. It’s not an unreasonable postulate.


I did not shift goal posts and you are incorrect about the "initial postulate." I said that: (i) in a gibson trade, the ducks would end up with a passable (not "bad") backup which is all they need (e.g., Gorgiev); and (ii) the ducks having an above average backup (as they do currently) really doesn't matter. This is not a playoff team.

It was Hockey Duckie who moved the goal posts with a digression of what a bad goal tender might mean and speculation about Dostal playing too much.

If Dostal is your starter then he needs to learn to play 50+ games. That isn't ruining him. He's 24, not 20. And again, the ducks will have an average or better backup in my view.

Its fine for you to disagree. But don't claim I've moved the goal posts.
This was the initial postulate I made that you replied to. Your last post was discussing that it’s ok if the backup loses, because the team wants to lose for draft position, and that the team is not a playoff team.

Both of those points have absolutely nothing to do with the potential damage to Dostal from being overplayed. That’s the definition of shifting the goalposts.

Prospect age, especially goalies, is not linear. Dostal played in 38 games last year, and finished with a .902 SV%. He had hot streaks last year as well. Give him games until his play suffers, then give him support. That’s how you develop a starter.
 

duckpuck

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It would take a very specific set of events lining up to get a crazy good return. He'd have to play out of his mind all year, a team would have to be absolutely loaded for bear yet lacking a goalie at deadline, their window would have to be soon so they'd be desperate, and there would have to be literally no other remotely decent options.

Yes and no. If Gibson is playing well (as is currently the case in a small sampling) and the ducks retain significantly and/or take back a bad contract, then he could have value without playing out of his mind. For example, "good Gibson" at $3.2M is a steal even if he's just your backup (which incidentally is also an argument for the ducks keeping him).

I think you have to look at the goalie contracts were handed out recently - Ullmark, Daccord, Saros, and Swaymen, Sorokin - and compare the risk. "Good" Gibson, with retention and not as much term, is a decent value.

And just to be clear, I don't think Gibson returns all that much in any event. I don't think the ducks will want to retain a significant amount for 2+ years. But this time next year the analysis is pretty different.
 

Gliff

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It's good on paper, albeit we have to see whether or not Jiricek is actually an outright bust, which is not off the table. He's still very young though, I would never write off a dman at 22, and how much is just him being mishandled?

But the fact that he's 6'4" with mobility and raw skill is what's going to buy him more time, moreso any actual flashes of high level play. And some big dmen do indeed take longer ... he might not pan out until his mid 20s and it wouldn't be at all unreasonable.
Jiricek is 20 years old.

He had 38 points in 55 AHL games in his D+1.
He had 19 points in 29 AHL games in his D+2.
He has 3 points in 4 AHL games in his D+3.

It's honestly shocking that there is talk of him being a bust. I would take a shot on him any f***ing day.

If we were in Minny's position I would do that deal 10 times out of 10.
 

Zegs2sendhelp

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If the goal is to have the best possible record this season, you keep Gibson. If the goal is to build a better roster in order to be a playoff contender, you trade him now when he has value. It’s pretty much that simple.
Ya I’m cool keeping gibson now

Fowler got to go tho

Jiricek is 20 years old.

He had 38 points in 55 AHL games in his D+1.
He had 19 points in 29 AHL games in his D+2.
He has 3 points in 4 AHL games in his D+3.

It's honestly shocking that there is talk of him being a bust. I would take a shot on him any f***ing day.

If we were in Minny's position I would do that deal 10 times out of 10.
Ya he’s 21 and wasn’t in a great situation….
I think he’s pretty legit rhd dmen going forward and minnasota is a much bette situation For him
 

FiveTacos

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Jiricek is 20 years old.

I see he just turned 21? My mistake.

He had 38 points in 55 AHL games in his D+1.
He had 19 points in 29 AHL games in his D+2.
He has 3 points in 4 AHL games in his D+3.

It's honestly shocking that there is talk of him being a bust. I would take a shot on him any f***ing day.

If we were in Minny's position I would do that deal 10 times out of 10.

Oh I'd take him too, and yes the risk is worth it for MN.

But I also think for a guy who has all the tools (size, mobility, skill, shot) he's been underwhelming.

I also remember some, like with Drysdale, questioning his ultimate ceiling despite the tools, that the production didn't seem to match the raw abilities. So it's not out of the question that maybe he's just one of those guys who's not the sum of his parts.
 

Gliff

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I see he just turned 21? My mistake.



Oh I'd take him too, and yes the risk is worth it for MN.

But I also think for a guy who has all the tools (size, mobility, skill, shot) he's been underwhelming.

I also remember some, like with Drysdale, questioning his ultimate ceiling despite the tools, that the production didn't seem to match the raw abilities. So it's not out of the question that maybe he's just one of those guys who's not the sum of his parts.
I missed he turned 21 a couple days ago haha.

I think he has way more tools then Drysdale, and plays a style of game the Ducks are desperately missing. I wouldnt take a shot on him if it was a Drysdale style player.
 

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