Speculation: 2024-25 - Free Agency/Trade Thread

[70sSanO]

trading Zegras would put us in an even more dire offensive problem.. I don’t believe you can get a two for one with trading him. You either get Zegras for a RHD who can help, or for a different kind of forward.

If you trade Zegras for a defenseman, who is going to make up for the 50-60 maybe even 70 points he could produce in his place?

You keep him no matter what. If this GM trades him, we’re in this rebuild forever

Zegras hasn’t even been in one playoff game. There is no way to know if he can produce when it counts.

I think everyone agrees that trading Zegras when his value is down is stupid.

Not ever considering moving him is just as stupid. Sooner or later he reaches his “upside” or he doesn’t. But the term does have an expiration date.

John

 

[StreetHawk]

I think any of the rookies being thrown on the top pairing on the wrong side at the start of the season have been similar train wrecks. Lacombe was much better when he was used appropriately, but many feel that he’s no good because of what happened at the start of the year.

Sorta but not necessarily correlated, I want to see how Vaakanainen does on his own, as far as did he really figure it out or to what extent was his success due to being paired with Gudas.

That's all part in parcel of the rebuild process. Need the veterans to help the kids develop. For the D, only Gudas is a true RHD the other 2 in Fowler and Dum are lefties. So, 2 guys have to swing over. And all 3 of the kids expected to be in the top 6 are lefties as well.

 

[DavidBL]

I think any of the rookies being thrown on the top pairing on the wrong side at the start of the season have been similar train wrecks. Lacombe was much better when he was used appropriately, but many feel that he’s no good because of what happened at the start of the year.

Sorta but not necessarily correlated, I want to see how Vaakanainen does on his own, as far as did he really figure it out or to what extent was his success due to being paired with Gudas.

I don't think people feel that he's no good. For me personally, I just don't the he's a hard no if he was the piece that got a Laine deal done. Others disagree but it's not so much how we feel about Lacombe and more to do with how we feel about Laine. But even if we do like him there is a lot of depth of the LS and at the end of the day he is for sure behind Minty and Zell at this stage. I had him penciled behind Solberg long term. I'd say Vaaks is at about the same place as him though I think Lacombe has more offense to give. I also like the Lacombe was used on the pk and actually looked pretty good there. I think we're going to get into diminishing value the longer keep him as the opportunities to play up in the lineup are going to be limited but that doesn't mean we have to move him now.

 

[Ducks DVM]

I don't think people feel that he's no good. For me personally, I just don't the he's a hard no if he was the piece that got a Laine deal done. Others disagree but it's not so much how we feel about Lacombe and more to do with how we feel about Laine. But even if we do like him there is a lot of depth of the LS and at the end of the day he is for sure behind Minty and Zell at this stage. I had him penciled behind Solberg long term. I'd say Vaaks is at about the same place as him though I think Lacombe has more offense to give. I also like the Lacombe was used on the pk and actually looked pretty good there. I think we're going to get into diminishing value the longer keep him as the opportunities to play up in the lineup are going to be limited but that doesn't mean we have to move him now.

There’s a vocal minority that don’t like him.

I don’t see the problem with having depth. Especially homegrown depth you don’t have to overpay to be depth because you have RFA control of them for another 5 years. You can do a lot worse than LaCombe on your bottom pairing.

 

[DavidBL]

There’s a vocal minority that don’t like him.

I don’t see the problem with having depth. Especially homegrown depth you don’t have to overpay to be depth because you have RFA control of them for another 5 years. You can do a lot worse than LaCombe on your bottom pairing.

Fair enough. No issues here.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

That's all part in parcel of the rebuild process. Need the veterans to help the kids develop. For the D, only Gudas is a true RHD the other 2 in Fowler and Dum are lefties. So, 2 guys have to swing over. And all 3 of the kids expected to be in the top 6 are lefties as well.

Fortunately, LaCombe and Zell have played on the right side last season. Or maybe Fowler can play the right side and a youth on the left? If the pattern of keeping a vet-youth pairing remains from last year, then one of the youths will be on the bottom pairing.

Fowler - Zell/LaCombe
Minty - Gudas
Dumo - LaCombe/Zell
Vaak

It's possible that Dumo becomes a TDL departure and RD Luneau gets to finish the season with the NHL club like Zell did this past season. That would shift one of LaCombe or Zell to play LD. It would fit the rebuilding/development process for this season.

 

[KaseMeOutside]

Zegras sells tickets.. PV would be smart to not move him. Unless he demands a trade.. The Rumor mills need to STFU already.. Let the dude mature.. He will be a star

And we are finally putting talent around him. Let's see how it all meshes together. This is the era of 3 to 4 scoring lines

 

[Smirnov2Chistov]

Zegras hasn’t even been in one playoff game. There is no way to know if he can produce when it counts.

I think everyone agrees that trading Zegras when his value is down is stupid.

Not ever considering moving him is just as stupid. Sooner or later he reaches his “upside” or he doesn’t. But the term does have an expiration date.

John

So that WJC tourney (that he essentially put team USA on his back) means nothing?

I’m sure he will put it together during the playoffs. (If we ever get a chance to sniff that possibility)

 

[Hockey Duckie]

Zegras hasn’t even been in one playoff game. There is no way to know if he can produce when it counts.

I think everyone agrees that trading Zegras when his value is down is stupid.

Not ever considering moving him is just as stupid. Sooner or later he reaches his “upside” or he doesn’t. But the term does have an expiration date.

John

The comment feels like a cocktail of recency bias and overreaction. Zegras put up over 60 points twice in the NHL already, including leading the club in scoring after his full, rookie season in the NHL. He had a bad start last year and that can be attributed to missing out on training camp and pre-season to get acquainted with the new head coach. The reason why he missed out on training camp with the new coach was that he wasn't signed until days before the regular season started.

Zegras​	Splits​
Date​	Game set​	Games​	G​	A​	Pts​	ppg​	+/-​
2023 - 24​	Total​	31​	6​	9​	15​	0.484​	-1​
Oct to Nov​	1 to 12​	12​	1​	1​	2​	0.167​	-4​
Dec to Jan​	13 to 20​	8​	3​	2​	5​	0.625​	-1​
Mar to Apr​	21 to 31​	11​	2​	6​	8​	0.727​	4​

Zegras' splits are separated up by injury breaks. Once he was back into NHL shape and understood the new offensive scheme, or there lack of, then Zegras was able to improve his production within the scheme. Our offensive scheme, both at ES and PP situations, were atrocious, but especially at ES play because Cronin's scheme produced 21 fewer ES goals for than the previous season. That dip in production is a small sample compared to the other 19 games he played. The overreaction to Zegras' first down season and believing he won't recover is akin to Space Ball 1 going to plaid.

As for playoffs, @Smirnov2Chistov does identify instances of playoff atmosphere for Zegras. Zegras was tied for 5th in scoring on the bronze winning team USA for the WJC-18. In Zegras' 2nd WJC-20, he helped team USA to gold as well as being recognized as the tournament's MVP and the most points scored in the tourney. Yet, the most spectacular part about that particular WJC-20 was when Zegras figuratively told all of Canada before the championship game, in the vein of the Bloodhound Gang, "So you put your hands down my pants and I bet you'll feel nuts!" Finally, he was a point-per-game in three San Diego Gulls playoffs during the COVID season, which tied him for 2nd in team scoring in the playoffs.

Sufficeth to say, Zegras is productive in a playoff atmosphere and has tasted success in such an atmosphere.

 

[MCB]

As for playoffs, @Smirnov2Chistov does identify instances of playoff atmosphere for Zegras. Zegras was tied for 5th in scoring on the bronze winning team USA for the WJC-18. In Zegras' 2nd WJC-20, he helped team USA to gold as well as being recognized as the tournament's MVP and the most points scored in the tourney. Yet, the most spectacular part about that particular WJC-20 was when Zegras figuratively told all of Canada before the championship game, in the vein of the Bloodhound Gang, "So you put your hands down my pants and I bet you'll feel nuts!" Finally, he was a point-per-game in three San Diego Gulls playoffs during the COVID season, which tied him for 2nd in team scoring in the playoffs.

Sufficeth to say, Zegras is productive in a playoff atmosphere and has tasted success in such an atmosphere.

Bonus points for using a bloodhound gang lyric

 

[Gliff]

I used to think Leafs fans were bad for thinking 2nd liners should be valued as 1st liners.

Montreal fans thinking their players will all be hall of famers is so much worse.

 

[anezthes]

Montreal fans thinking their players will all be hall of famers is so much worse.

Even worse is the guy who outed himself, implying he did worse things than Mailloux in his youth. That's by far the dumbest shit I’ve ever seen on HFB.

 

[Gliff]

Even worse is the guy who outed himself, implying he did worse things than Mailloux in his youth. That's by far the dumbest shit I’ve ever seen on HFB.

Ya I took a risk at an infraction with my response but it was worth it. What an idiot, and by his own words, a piece of shit.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Ya I took a risk at an infraction with my response but it was worth it. What an idiot, and by his own words, a piece of shit.

Lol I took the high road on responding to that comment

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

I don't know how you guys can stand to read that Z/MTL shit anymore. Those guys truly do make leaf fans seem so sweet and loveable.

 

[70sSanO]

The comment feels like a cocktail of recency bias and overreaction. Zegras put up over 60 points twice in the NHL already, including leading the club in scoring after his full, rookie season in the NHL. He had a bad start last year and that can be attributed to missing out on training camp and pre-season to get acquainted with the new head coach. The reason why he missed out on training camp with the new coach was that he wasn't signed until days before the regular season started.

I’ve felt that Panarin is Zegras’s upside. If he reaches that level of productivity it will be amazing.

That said, I don’t see Panarin winning a cup in his current role. It has nothing to do with skill level.

And less to do with regular season stats.

John

 

[tomd]

I don't know how you guys can stand to read that Z/MTL shit anymore. Those guys truly do make leaf fans seem so sweet and loveable.

Yeah, it’s like going into an outhouse and be surprised that it stinks.

 

[All Mighty]

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

 

[70sSanO]

C’mon Pat, throw in some annual Disney Passes; no blackout dates and parking included!

If necessary, Club 33 access.

John

 

[AngelDuck]

Similar to Gibson

No one wants him

 

[Ducks DVM]

Not sure why I felt the need to engage with the Zegras thread. Gonna leave that to the rest of you again.

 

[Rasp]

Not sure why I felt the need to engage with the Zegras thread. Gonna leave that to the rest of you again.

Just move the thread to the Montreal board where it belongs

 

[SmokeyDuck]

Nothing from MTL even interests me, in terms of returns for Zegras. Demidov maybe, but no way they are trading him and it seems like a lateral move anyways when Zegras is similar in style, position, and already a 60 point player in the NHL.

 

[Mr Rogers]

Habs fans have been like this for as long as i can remember, it seems like they are worse than most fanbases when it comes to talking trades because i don't think they are discussing in good faith at all.

They want your guy but don't want to give up anybody good for him. If their guys are so good and worth more than your guy why do they even want to make trades?