Speculation: 2024-25 Coaching/Management/Ownership

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The first part of your sentence is farcical because they still are putrid offensively this season while healthy. Then you mock facts about Verbeek blowing up the '21-22 team. The only time Verbeek had the Ducks in a playoff position was when he took over the 2021-22 Ducks at the All-Star break, they were 3rd in the Pacific and tied in points with the Kings at 55 points. That was year 3 of the Murray rebuild. This year's team never made it into the top-3 in the Pacific Division and most likely won't in Verbeek's Year 3 of his reset rebuild.

I guess some people are into alternative history as well as can't accept truthful history.



Ducks GF rank
2022-23: 31st (209 goals)
2023-24: 30th (205 goals)
2024-25: 29th (186 goals) currently

What's your excuse for this season?

.
.
From the Athletic:
Another thing Verbeek did after last season was pick up Dallas Eakin’s option year. Verbeek resisted the temptation that I think a lot of new GMs have, to bring in his own coach immediately.
Now, who knows where this goes after this season? Eakins’ deal will be up. But at the very least, Verbeek wanted to take the time to further get to know his coach before making any decisions.
“It’s not fair … me coming in two, three months and then going with a new guy,” Verbeek said. “And in the sense that I just blew up the team (at the trade deadline). So I wanted to give him a chance. And it gave us an opportunity to get to know one another over the course of the offseason.
2021-22, Year 3 of rebuild: 3rd in Pacific, tied for 2nd in Pts in the Pacific with the Kings.

1742494677820.png



buddy, read your own charts. 3rd in the pacific. But 5th in the pacific RgPt% …
Tied with the kings, who had 1 game in hand.
The two teams chasing us, had 6 games in hand each, and were 3 pts out and 6 pts out, all they had to do was go 1-4-1 Calgary tied us, or for Edmonton 3-3.
Sharks had 2 games in hand, and 1 less win than us.

We lead the entire western conference in OTL at this point.

We weren’t some world beater team, we were winning similar to this year in unsustainable long term ways.

We had 4 pending UFA’s. (Lindholm, Raks, Des, Manson). Traded them all for draft picks… plus.

Manson trade = Helleson (NHL) + Carey Terrance (captain of Erie Otters in OHL)

Des trade = Sidorov (AHL)

Lindholm trade = Vaaks (who in return equals Trouba (NHL) + Gaucher (AHL) + Clara (Europe)+ Alongside the Edm 1st, we traded the second in this trade to jump up and draft Stain (AHL)

Raks trade = Calle Clang (AHL) + Luneau (AHL)
 
2021-22, Year 3 of rebuild: 3rd in Pacific, tied for 2nd in Pts in the Pacific with the Kings.

1742494677820.png



buddy, read your own charts. 3rd in the pacific. But 5th in the pacific RgPt% …
Tied with the kings, who had 1 game in hand.
The two teams chasing us, had 6 games in hand each, and were 3 pts out and 6 pts out, all they had to do was go 1-4-1 Calgary tied us, or for Edmonton 3-3.
Sharks had 2 games in hand, and 1 less win than us.

We lead the entire western conference in OTL at this point.

We weren’t some world beater team, we were winning similar to this year in unsustainable long term ways.

We had 4 pending UFA’s. (Lindholm, Raks, Des, Manson). Traded them all for draft picks… plus.

Manson trade = Helleson (NHL) + Carey Terrance (captain of Erie Otters in OHL)

Des trade = Sidorov (AHL)

Lindholm trade = Vaaks (who in return equals Trouba (NHL) + Gaucher (AHL) + Clara (Europe)+ Alongside the Edm 1st, we traded the second in this trade to jump up and draft Stain (AHL)

Raks trade = Calle Clang (AHL) + Luneau (AHL)

Red Herring Alert ===
The inclusion of who we traded is proof of Verbeek gutting the team for the 2022-23 season, Eakins' last year with the club. That tidbit has nothing to do with the Ducks' last time they were in a playoff position. That's called a Red Herring logical fallacy. Although, Cronin was gifted a far superior roster the following season and couldn't figure out to win or earn more points. This info is pertinent when looking at the standings and RgPt% comparison.

OG Point ===
The Ducks were in a playoff position when Verbeek took over. Fact. The was the last time the Ducks were in a playoff position. Fact. We were just talking about how close this year's team was to getting into a playoff spot, but never was, which is also a fact. This year's team has far more talent and talent depth accrued along with far superior netminding, but couldn't even place in the top-3 of the Pacific division for this season. The 2021-22 team was year 3 of the Murray rebuild. The 2024-25 team is year 3 of the Verbeek reset rebuild.

Here is a news article who also denotes the Ducks were third in the Pacific and in a playoff position as receipt.

From Detroit News:
Named general manager of the Anaheim Ducks on Thursday, Verbeek is going to an organization in third place in the Pacific Division, in a wild-card spot, and past the early stages of the rebuild phase.
"This team doesn't need to be rebuilt; they're in the middle of their rebuild, so this is a great opportunity to take this team forward and turn them into a contender," Verbeek said during his introductory press conference. "You don't have to come in there and look to take a long time. There's good players in the NHL, good players in the minors and there are players that have been drafted. There's a lot coming to support the growth of this team. That's truly what I'm excited about."


RgPT% Spin ===
Now, you're adding your own spin about RgPt% just like your extrapolating the small sample of youth scoring to an 82-game production as actual production. Both not true and misleading.

Anyhow, let's go down this RgPT% to see if you have something or it's just sheer bullshit. We can do this by expanding the sample size and include Cronin's tenure.

1742791598388.png

Source: Hockey-Reference

Wow. You mean to say that Eakins has the ability to be consistent at clawing out extra points beyond regulation time? With a shit roster given to Eakins for the 2022-23 season, Eakins is still able to generate points beyond regulation time similar to his 2021-22 season.

Cronin's RgPt% are on two extremes. This proves that Cronin's ability to generate points beyond regulation time is wildly inconsistent. The inconsistency lies within the Ducks' goalie duo putting up great performances for the 2024-25 season.


Conclusion

Result
: RgPt% premise is unsustainable by Eakins is complete bullshit.

Just compare Eakins' 2022-23 season Reg W and Points to Cronin's 2023-24 season Reg W and Points. Cronin was gifted a far better roster and the baseline Reg W improved, but the point production was meager. It appears someone cannot 'coach up' players.

We need a coach better than Cronin who knows how to claw and scratch for additional points. In essence, a coach who can uplift the team to play higher than their stations. Eakins is an example to show Cronin cannot uplift the team on his own. We need to find a coach who can push the team better. I like NCAA coach David Carle, but I dunno if the org and the fans want another rookie head coach nor do we know if the Ducks are willing to spend a lot of cash and term for his services.
 
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Red Herring Alert ===
The inclusion of who we traded is proof of Verbeek gutting the team for the 2022-23 season, Eakins' last year with the club. That tidbit has nothing to do with the Ducks' last time they were in a playoff position. That's called a Red Herring logical fallacy. Although, Cronin was gifted a far superior roster the following season and couldn't figure out to win or earn more points. This info is pertinent when looking at the standings and RgPt% comparison.

OG Point ===
The Ducks were in a playoff position when Verbeek took over. Fact. The was the last time the Ducks were in a playoff position. Fact. We were just talking about how close this year's team was to getting into a playoff spot, but never was, which is also a fact. This year's team has far more talent and talent depth accrued along with far superior netminding, but couldn't even place in the top-3 of the Pacific division for this season. The 2021-22 team was year 3 of the Murray rebuild. The 2024-25 team is year 3 of the Verbeek reset rebuild.

Here is a news article who also denotes the Ducks were third in the Pacific and in a playoff position as receipt.

From Detroit News:
Named general manager of the Anaheim Ducks on Thursday, Verbeek is going to an organization in third place in the Pacific Division, in a wild-card spot, and past the early stages of the rebuild phase.
"This team doesn't need to be rebuilt; they're in the middle of their rebuild, so this is a great opportunity to take this team forward and turn them into a contender," Verbeek said during his introductory press conference. "You don't have to come in there and look to take a long time. There's good players in the NHL, good players in the minors and there are players that have been drafted. There's a lot coming to support the growth of this team. That's truly what I'm excited about."


RgPT% Spin ===
Now, you're adding your own spin about RgPt% just like your extrapolating the small sample of youth scoring to an 82-game production as actual production. Both not true and misleading.

Anyhow, let's go down this RgPT% to see if you have something or it's just sheer bullshit. We can do this by expanding the sample size and include Cronin's tenure.

View attachment 998431
Source: Hockey-Reference

Wow. You mean to say that Eakins has the ability to be consistent at clawing out extra points beyond regulation time? With a shit roster given to Eakins for the 2022-23 season, Eakins is still able to generate points beyond regulation time similar to his 2021-22 season.

Cronin's RgPt% are on two extremes. This proves that Cronin's ability to generate points beyond regulation time is wildly inconsistent. The inconsistency lies within the Ducks' goalie duo putting up great performances for the 2024-25 season.


Conclusion

Result
: RgPt% premise is unsustainable by Eakins is complete bullshit.

Just compare Eakins' 2022-23 season Reg W and Points to Cronin's 2023-24 season Reg W and Points. Cronin was gifted a far better roster and the baseline Reg W improved, but the point production was meager. It appears someone cannot 'coach up' players.

We need a coach better than Cronin who knows how to claw and scratch for additional points. In essence, a coach who can uplift the team to play higher than their stations. Eakins is an example to show Cronin cannot uplift the team on his own. We need to find a coach who can push the team better. I like NCAA coach David Carle, but I dunno if the org and the fans want another rookie head coach nor do we know if the Ducks are willing to spend a lot of cash and term for his services.
Games in hand ?
 
Verbeek does good on the moves he actually makes. It’s hard to think of a move that the value hasn’t been quality (except maybe the Lindholm trade)

His issue is the moves he doesn’t make IMO
 
I don’t see much room for criticism on Verbeek either. If he keeps Cronin, that’ll be a massive red flag.

Cutter was a big acquisition, Strome/Killorn/Gudas were solid pickups, even though the end results haven’t changed much. Plus moving expiring deals out are all a plus.

He’s a blockbuster deal away from really putting his stamp on this thing.
 
I don’t see much room for criticism on Verbeek either. If he keeps Cronin, that’ll be a massive red flag.

Cutter was a big acquisition, Strome/Killorn/Gudas were solid pickups, even though the end results haven’t changed much. Plus moving expiring deals out are all a plus.

He’s a blockbuster deal away from really putting his stamp on this thing.
Bro the rebel with a trustfund profile pic? :cry:

Agreed that he's on the right side of good. Remains to be seen if he can guide this team through the rebuild once these kids start developing more. Like you said, moving on from Cronin has to happen.
 
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Games in hand ?

Last time the Ducks were in a playoff position is vastly different from the last time the Ducks were in the playoffs. There are media publications the denote the Ducks were 3rd in the Pacific, implying a playoff spot. The Kings has played 47 games, one less game than the Ducks at the time. They would make the playoffs, but you wouldn't know it at the time. Same goes with Nashville. Thus, "games in hand" is flaccid rebuttal.


1742850797074.png

Note: The asterisks denotes those teams made the playoffs that season.

From Detroit News, when Verbeek was hired:

Named general manager of the Anaheim Ducks on Thursday, Verbeek is going to an organization in third place in the Pacific Division, in a wild-card spot, and past the early stages of the rebuild phase.
"This team doesn't need to be rebuilt; they're in the middle of their rebuild, so this is a great opportunity to take this team forward and turn them into a contender," Verbeek said during his introductory press conference. "You don't have to come in there and look to take a long time. There's good players in the NHL, good players in the minors and there are players that have been drafted. There's a lot coming to support the growth of this team. That's truly what I'm excited about."

This is like you telling the Ducks faithful that we didn't play any meaningful games recently this season because only playoff games are meaningful games. Do you see how you move the goal post b/c you dislike that actual premise?
 
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Last time the Ducks were in a playoff position is vastly different from the last time the Ducks were in the playoffs. There are media publications the denote the Ducks were 3rd in the Pacific, implying a playoff spot. The Kings has played 47 games, one less game than the Ducks at the time. They would make the playoffs, but you wouldn't know it at the time. Same goes with Nashville. Thus, "games in hand" is flaccid rebuttal.


View attachment 998696
Note: The asterisks denotes those teams made the playoffs that season.

From Detroit News, when Verbeek was hired:

Named general manager of the Anaheim Ducks on Thursday, Verbeek is going to an organization in third place in the Pacific Division, in a wild-card spot, and past the early stages of the rebuild phase.
"This team doesn't need to be rebuilt; they're in the middle of their rebuild, so this is a great opportunity to take this team forward and turn them into a contender," Verbeek said during his introductory press conference. "You don't have to come in there and look to take a long time. There's good players in the NHL, good players in the minors and there are players that have been drafted. There's a lot coming to support the growth of this team. That's truly what I'm excited about."

This is like you telling the Ducks faithful that we didn't play any meaningful games recently this season because only playoff games are meaningful games. Do you see how you move the goal post b/c you dislike that actual premise?
I don’t understand the point you are trying make ? Yes we were in a playoff position, but of all the 8 teams that made the playoffs not 1 had played more games than us, some had played 7 less games than us, and most of them had played 6 less games than us.

Please do not take this the wrong way, because I don’t know if English isn’t your first language. I just truly very rarely understand the points you are trying to make. You say the same buzz words / phrases consistently, “moving goal posts”, “disingenuous”, “2021-22 season” (that’s a little joke for you😂)

But truly, you do great work with facts and figures, but you seem to never add any context to said facts and figures. Its seems all so black and white, and I don’t know man, I just don’t understand what point your trying to ever make.

Anywho, thanks for all the prospect data you do every couple weeks.
 
Last time the Ducks were in a playoff position is vastly different from the last time the Ducks were in the playoffs.
Lol, I mean if we’re just saying to hell with any context, the Ducks were “in a playoff position” on October 16th of this season. Yeah they only had 4 points but I mean a glance at the standings on that date has us as third in the division
 
I'm still glad we whiffed on the Nashville adds tbh. Those contracts would look really bad when we need to start signing some kids to their first big contracts.
Agreed though Stamkos on our PP intrigues me. 51 percent on faceoffs too, though I don't know how many he takes. Just those factors alone would improve our PP. 4 years though, oof.
 
Agreed though Stamkos on our PP intrigues me. 51 percent on faceoffs too, though I don't know how many he takes. Just those factors alone would improve our PP. 4 years though, oof.
This is the problem with both contracts. The money is fine for right now (moreso in Marchessault's case relative to actual production, 8 million for 45 points is pretty yikes). But both contracts take them right into 38 years old. Neither guy is going to be worth their cap hit in the last two years of their respective contracts. You can argue Stamkos isn't worth his right now.

I don't know if Nashville is planning to LTIRetire them in the future but if they aren't then those contracts become albatross deals really quickly. And I'm saying this as someone who would've loved Marchessault to either stay in my neck of the woods and failing that, go to Anaheim as some veteran offensive reinforcement. But I'm glad Anaheim didn't go as far as the Preds did. Even if we can stomach that contract for four years, we're already looking at a Killorn overpay on a guy who will start age regressing even harder before long. Giving a lot of money to older players just for the sake of getting someone shouldn't be the precedent.

And my concern is, this UFA class isn't really all that promising considering all the talk of "Verbeek better go out and get a talented top 6 winger"

Marner: Unlikely to want to go to a rebuilder, will command a heavy price tag, especially given California's tax rates but he is fairly age controlled.

Tavares: Old, probably wants to go to a contender and might take a pay cut to do it.

Benn: Old, f*** that guy, will probably regress heavily starting next season

Boeser: Possible but we'd have to overpay and give him term. 28 years old is solid for the timeline.

Giroux: Old. I wouldn't be opposed to a one year deal but I doubt he wants to come here.

Marchand: Old, will probably want to go back to Boston or a contender.

Hall: Already in talks for a re-up with Carolina, not even that good anymore anyway.

Nelson: Fairly old as of today, Will probably stay in Colorado.

Nik Ehlers: Probably the most attractive option but he is due a heavy raise. With California taxes in play we'd probably have to shell out 8.5-9m with term and no guarantee that he produces the same here.

Mangiapane: Short, not crazy productive on a very good Washington team. Don't see him as a highly attractive piece, but he's on the list I'm looking at.

Kuzmenko: 28 yo, not exactly who you think of when you think talented top 6 player, so you can see that the pool of available talent is already dwindling.

Oshie: Oldest guy mentioned so far. Not putting up big numbers on a talented Washington team, no reason to expect he'd be top 6 quality here.

Bennett: Would likely need to pay him more than he's worth to convince him to come over. He's a bona fide U-30 second liner with a physical edge in his game, but am I okay with Verbeek throwing 7.5+ million with term to convince him to sign? I don't think I am.

I don't really feel like continuing. The rest are either 34 year olds or third and fourth liners that don't fit the mold of what we've been talking about.

We could offer sheet Gabe Vilardi if we're truly done rebuilding out of the draft :dunno:. Point is there's maybe two guys up there that really fit what this team needs and isn't approaching retirement age. There's 31 other teams with the option to try to sign them. I think some expectation management would go a long way around here. We legitmately might be better off trying to package D prospects and picks to pick up forward talent in the trade market than hoping an FA signing will be the win we're hoping for.
 
I don’t see much room for criticism on Verbeek either. If he keeps Cronin, that’ll be a massive red flag.

Cutter was a big acquisition, Strome/Killorn/Gudas were solid pickups, even though the end results haven’t changed much. Plus moving expiring deals out are all a plus.

He’s a blockbuster deal away from really putting his stamp on this thing.
Well written
 
This is the problem with both contracts. The money is fine for right now (moreso in Marchessault's case relative to actual production, 8 million for 45 points is pretty yikes). But both contracts take them right into 38 years old. Neither guy is going to be worth their cap hit in the last two years of their respective contracts. You can argue Stamkos isn't worth his right now.

I don't know if Nashville is planning to LTIRetire them in the future but if they aren't then those contracts become albatross deals really quickly. And I'm saying this as someone who would've loved Marchessault to either stay in my neck of the woods and failing that, go to Anaheim as some veteran offensive reinforcement. But I'm glad Anaheim didn't go as far as the Preds did. Even if we can stomach that contract for four years, we're already looking at a Killorn overpay on a guy who will start age regressing even harder before long. Giving a lot of money to older players just for the sake of getting someone shouldn't be the precedent.

And my concern is, this UFA class isn't really all that promising considering all the talk of "Verbeek better go out and get a talented top 6 winger"

Marner: Unlikely to want to go to a rebuilder, will command a heavy price tag, especially given California's tax rates but he is fairly age controlled.

Tavares: Old, probably wants to go to a contender and might take a pay cut to do it.

Benn: Old, f*** that guy, will probably regress heavily starting next season

Boeser: Possible but we'd have to overpay and give him term. 28 years old is solid for the timeline.

Giroux: Old. I wouldn't be opposed to a one year deal but I doubt he wants to come here.

Marchand: Old, will probably want to go back to Boston or a contender.

Hall: Already in talks for a re-up with Carolina, not even that good anymore anyway.

Nelson: Fairly old as of today, Will probably stay in Colorado.

Nik Ehlers: Probably the most attractive option but he is due a heavy raise. With California taxes in play we'd probably have to shell out 8.5-9m with term and no guarantee that he produces the same here.

Mangiapane: Short, not crazy productive on a very good Washington team. Don't see him as a highly attractive piece, but he's on the list I'm looking at.

Kuzmenko: 28 yo, not exactly who you think of when you think talented top 6 player, so you can see that the pool of available talent is already dwindling.

Oshie: Oldest guy mentioned so far. Not putting up big numbers on a talented Washington team, no reason to expect he'd be top 6 quality here.

Bennett: Would likely need to pay him more than he's worth to convince him to come over. He's a bona fide U-30 second liner with a physical edge in his game, but am I okay with Verbeek throwing 7.5+ million with term to convince him to sign? I don't think I am.

I don't really feel like continuing. The rest are either 34 year olds or third and fourth liners that don't fit the mold of what we've been talking about.

We could offer sheet Gabe Vilardi if we're truly done rebuilding out of the draft :dunno:. Point is there's maybe two guys up there that really fit what this team needs and isn't approaching retirement age. There's 31 other teams with the option to try to sign them. I think some expectation management would go a long way around here. We legitmately might be better off trying to package D prospects and picks to pick up forward talent in the trade market than hoping an FA signing will be the win we're hoping for.

I agree.

There are very few young top UFA’s. I don’t think any team just lets a 26 year old 40 goal scorer walk. It’ll never happen.

Even Carolina managed something out of the Rantanen fiasco. They could have used him through the playoffs, but facing a no return in Summer was a deal breaker.

It will have to be a trade. And we will need to give up something. But a top 7 pick can go a long way if packaged correctly with assets.

John
 
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We could offer sheet Gabe Vilardi if we're truly done rebuilding out of the draft :dunno:.

I would love Vilardi, and I think he's exactly the type of player the Ducks need. He fits the age timeline, and he's lived in Southern California before which might be more exciting than Winnipeg. TBH, I actually think there's a chance he would sign an offer sheet from the Ducks. The issue is that the Ducks don't have their 2nd so they can't go above 6.8 mil and I can't see why Winnipeg wouldn't match that with 37 mil in cap space. He would really help this team though.
 
I would love Vilardi, and I think he's exactly the type of player the Ducks need. He fits the age timeline, and he's lived in Southern California before which might be more exciting than Winnipeg. TBH, I actually think there's a chance he would sign an offer sheet from the Ducks. The issue is that the Ducks don't have their 2nd so they can't go above 6.8 mil and I can't see why Winnipeg wouldn't match that with 37 mil in cap space. He would really help this team though.
Pretty sure it's based on picks retained in the 2026 draft (the 2025 draft will be over by the time Vilardi is eligible to be OS'd) and unless the site i checked is wrong, the Ducks have their 2026 second rounder.

I wouldn't really want the Ducks to go too high over say, 7.5m though. Maybe like 8 at at most to make it comparable to the Terry contract adjusted for cap increase (though in the current economic climate I'm not sure the salary cap will actually increase as much as the league said it would).
 
Acquiring Mid-30s players on 4-5 year contracts will never be the answer to this teams problems.

We dodged a huge bullet only ending up with Killorn as our only long term old guy

Imagine how pissed this board would be with Killorn/Stamkos the next 2 years lol
 

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