2024-25 Coaching/Management/Ownership

[mightyquack]

I've said it before, but if Anaheim actually signed Quenville, I would be hard pressed to cheer for the team until he was gone. I want to see Anaheim be better just as much as anyone else, but we can do that without hiring a guy who helped cover up some absolute awful things during his time in Chicago. One of a number of people who should be blackballed from the NHL for life.

Thankfully I'm pretty confident the Samueli's would nix any attempt to sign him the second they had to sign off on it.

 

[quackquackquack]

I'll get buried for this but I really want Bruce as the next coach. He's the guy who can unlock the kids offensively. If he brings on some assistants who operate more as "defensive coordinators", we should have a much more balanced team.

 

[JAHV]

I'll get buried for this but I really want Bruce as the next coach. He's the guy who can unlock the kids offensively. If he brings on some assistants who operate more as "defensive coordinators", we should have a much more balanced team.

Why would you get buried for that? The only issue with Bruce is that he's old (70ish?). So he's not going to be around long-term. And coaches do decline at a certain age, even if it seems like they should be good forever. It takes a lot of energy to coach.

I personally loved Bruce and would enjoy seeing him back, even if it's only for two years to try to get these young guys going. Bring him on if he's willing to come here. But I don't know why he'd do that. He's probably got three years, at most, to coach and I have to think he wants to win a Cup more than anything.

(Just to give you an idea - to this point, the oldest coach to win their first Cup was Cassidy a couple years ago at age 58 - Bruce would break that record by 13 years if he were to win it next year with some team.)

 

[Gliff]

I think it takes a much larger leap of assumption to think that a guy who was an alcoholic and abusive to employees did NOT affect operations than that he did.

Also, I'm not even sure I understand your argument against my point. As you say in the second half of your post, Bob's inaction led to a delay of the rebuild which is why the team is where it is. Had the Samuelis acted on firing Murray sooner, the team would have been better off - certainly from an HR standpoint and very likely from a team performance standpoint. I think we agree.

We dont agree on this. I don't really have any interest in debating our different speculation about how his drinking effected the teams performance, or criticize the owners for not firing him with 6 years of hindsight.

Lets agree to disagree.

I'll get buried for this but I really want Bruce as the next coach. He's the guy who can unlock the kids offensively. If he brings on some assistants who operate more as "defensive coordinators", we should have a much more balanced team.

Ya I think people would be pumped for Bruce. I doubt PV has any interest in hiring a players coach though.

 

[Static]

 

[70sSanO]

The thread always turns into the mythical past of what might have been. The Ducks have been a bad team for a lot of years and some fleeting snapshot of the standings means nothing.

The truth is we were not even close to being in a middle of a rebuild in ‘22.

Verbeek has done a great job getting rid of players that needed to go. And aside from, primarily Killorn, his vets are not that bad. Anyone long for Bieksa over Gudas or Trouba?

And I’ve lost patience with Zegras. This is the NHL not Stiga. Go play like you should or get out.

My biggest concern is coaching. Cronin is not a good coach… period.

John

 

[zegrassyknoll]

There's just no way that an org with 8 people on the analysis staff can justify keeping Cronin as a coach.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

The thread always turns into the mythical past of what might have been. The Ducks have been a bad team for a lot of years and some fleeting snapshot of the standings means nothing.

The truth is we were not even close to being in a middle of a rebuild in ‘22.

Verbeek has done a great job getting rid of players that needed to go. And aside from, primarily Killorn, his vets are not that bad. Anyone long for Bieksa over Gudas or Trouba?

And I’ve lost patience with Zegras. This is the NHL not Stiga. Go play like you should or get out.

My biggest concern is coaching. Cronin is not a good coach… period.

John

You say Cronin is not a good coach, but you've lost patience with Zegras. Zegras is exhibit A of what "a not a good coach" can decay.

---

The 2021-22 team

I hear you saying 2021-22 was "not even close to being in a middle of a rebuild", but you don't support it. It's like your two statements about about Cronin and Zegras, you don't see the direct relationship and its affects.

• in the org
  • NHL Youths who broke out in 2021-22: RW Terry, C Zegras, and RD Drysdale
  • Youths in the Pro system (AHL/NHL) in 2021-22: G Dostal
  • Prospects in the system in 2021-22:
    • 2019 class: LD/RD LaCombe, LD Thrun
    • 2020 class: RW Colangelo, RD Moore, LW Galimov
    • 2021 class: C Mac, LD/RD Zell, RW Pastujov, LD/RD Hinds

Today, Dostal is our 1A goalie and LaCombe is already our default 1D, but he's playing like a top-pairing D.

What the 2021-22 group needed was more talented depth going into the next season while waiting on their prospects to get to the NHL level.

Problem is that I don't trust Verbeek's veteran acquisitions on the whole. He hasn't acquired an actual top-6F. They're all 3rd line talents playing up higher in the lineup. His defensive roster for 2022-23 was atrocious. He still hasn't acquired a top-4D veteran, they're all 3rd pairings on their previous teams. I love Gudas, but his play hasn't been the same after being thrusted into a top pairing D last season. Verbeek hasn't properly supported or sheltered the youths with the exception of Dostal, but Gibson was already here before Verbeek. This year's team has far more talent level accrued than the 2021-22 team, but they don't play like it.

At All-Star/Four Nations Break, Record

2021-22, Year 3 of rebuild: 3rd in Pacific, tied for 2nd in Pts in the Pacific with the Kings.

2024-25, Year 3 of Verbeekening: 9 points from last playoffs spot in the Western Conference

 

[TheDarkWingThatDucks]

I’d just like to say it’s nice to be back, and so I’ll start with…..

I know Cronin and Verbeek are ruining the offensive talent of our young players so let’s check how they are currently playing.

21-22 year old Mason McTavish
In his last 23 games - 24 pts (12 g + 12a)
86 pt pace per 82 game season.
23 games is 28 % of an 82 game season, and 37% of his games played this season.

19-20 year old Leo Carlsson
In his last 19 games - 17 pts (7 g + 10a)
73 pt pace per 82 game season.
19 games is 23 % of an 82 game season, and 30% of his games played this season.

23-24 (today) year old Trevor Zegras
In his last 19 games - 13 pts (4 g + 9a)
56 pt pace per 82 game season. (Since injury)
19 games is 23 % of an 82 game season, and 43% of his games played this season.

20-21 year old Cutter Gauthier (rookie)
In his last 14 games - 12 pts (4 g + 8a)
71 pt pace per 82 game season.
14 games is 17 % of an 82 game season, and 25% of his games played this season.

Our 4 young (top 9 OA or better) forwards have played, 25% / 30% / 37% / and 43% of their games this season at 71 pt / 73 pt / 86 pt / and 56 pt seasons, respectively.

All with the worst GM / Coach / Special teams (and special team coaches) / teammates / line up decisions / analytics / owners / developmental staff ….. Maybe in the history of the entire NHL.

So, hopefully these stats continue over the last 13 games of the season, which would be another 16% of an 82 game season.

 

[mightyquack]

Played our first good game in the last four, time to post how amazing Cronin is again.

Good to see our young players starting to produce in a small sample size, too bad we are still playing putrid hockey most nights. At least we didn't let Nashville outshoot us 2 to 1 this time around.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

I’d just like to say it’s nice to be back, and so I’ll start with…..

I know Cronin and Verbeek are ruining the offensive talent of our young players so let’s check how they are currently playing.

21-22 year old Mason McTavish
In his last 23 games - 24 pts (12 g + 12a)
86 pt pace per 82 game season.
23 games is 28 % of an 82 game season, and 37% of his games played this season.

19-20 year old Leo Carlsson
In his last 19 games - 17 pts (7 g + 10a)
73 pt pace per 82 game season.
19 games is 23 % of an 82 game season, and 30% of his games played this season.

23-24 (today) year old Trevor Zegras
In his last 19 games - 13 pts (4 g + 9a)
56 pt pace per 82 game season. (Since injury)
19 games is 23 % of an 82 game season, and 43% of his games played this season.

20-21 year old Cutter Gauthier (rookie)
In his last 14 games - 12 pts (4 g + 8a)
71 pt pace per 82 game season.
14 games is 17 % of an 82 game season, and 25% of his games played this season.

Our 4 young (top 9 OA or better) forwards have played, 25% / 30% / 37% / and 43% of their games this season at 71 pt / 73 pt / 86 pt / and 56 pt seasons, respectively.

All with the worst GM / Coach / Special teams (and special team coaches) / teammates / line up decisions / analytics / owners / developmental staff ….. Maybe in the history of the entire NHL.

So, hopefully these stats continue over the last 13 games of the season, which would be another 16% of an 82 game season.

You can't be arbitrarily choosing when a sample begins because the samples beccome just that, arbitrary. Mac's last 24 games, Carlsson's last 19 games, Zegras' last 19 games, and Cutter's last 14 games. And then you use those small samples to play out for the whole season. Which part of each player's game is an aberration?

I do like trends. Mac's gone on a ppg spree last year too in two sample sets of 20 games to start the season and 9 games later in the season. Why did Mac not start at a ppg rate like he did last season?

2023-24: 64 gp, 19g + 23a = 42 pts (0.66 ppg)
2024-25: 63 gp, 18g + 25a = 43 pts (0.68 ppg) with 13 games left on the season.

The scoring rate is similar for similar sample sizes of 63 and 64 games. The most Mac can play this season is 76 games, not 82 games. Extrapolating things to 82 games and using that as the base standard is disingenuous.

We are scoring more, but we're also losing more during the month of March. Two of our wins came against Nashville, where they could not score a goal at 5v5 play. Something is definitely wrong if we're scoring more, but losing more whereas previously we would score less and win or earn more points. Why are we not winning more in March when scoring the most we have all season?

 

[70sSanO]

You say Cronin is not a good coach, but you've lost patience with Zegras. Zegras is exhibit A of what "a not a good coach" can decay.

View attachment 996117

---

The 2021-22 team

I hear you saying 2021-22 was "not even close to being in a middle of a rebuild", but you don't support it. It's like your two statements about about Cronin and Zegras, you don't see the direct relationship and its affects.

• in the org
  • NHL Youths who broke out in 2021-22: RW Terry, C Zegras, and RD Drysdale
  • Youths in the Pro system (AHL/NHL) in 2021-22: G Dostal
  • Prospects in the system in 2021-22:
    • 2019 class: LD/RD LaCombe, LD Thrun
    • 2020 class: RW Colangelo, RD Moore, LW Galimov
    • 2021 class: C Mac, LD/RD Zell, RW Pastujov, LD/RD Hinds

Today, Dostal is our 1A goalie and LaCombe is already our default 1D, but he's playing like a top-pairing D.

What the 2021-22 group needed was more talented depth going into the next season while waiting on their prospects to get to the NHL level.

Problem is that I don't trust Verbeek's veteran acquisitions on the whole. He hasn't acquired an actual top-6F. They're all 3rd line talents playing up higher in the lineup. His defensive roster for 2022-23 was atrocious. He still hasn't acquired a top-4D veteran, they're all 3rd pairings on their previous teams. I love Gudas, but his play hasn't been the same after being thrusted into a top pairing D last season. Verbeek hasn't properly supported or sheltered the youths with the exception of Dostal, but Gibson was already here before Verbeek. This year's team has far more talent level accrued than the 2021-22 team, but they don't play like it.

At All-Star/Four Nations Break, Record

2021-22, Year 3 of rebuild: 3rd in Pacific, tied for 2nd in Pts in the Pacific with the Kings.

View attachment 996141

2024-25, Year 3 of Verbeekening: 9 points from last playoffs spot in the Western Conference

View attachment 996140

You always throw out a bunch of numbers to support a position. Most of them are meaningless in the overall scheme of things.

Lindholm had a career year with the Bruins in 23 and the team set NHL records that might never be broken. They lost in the 1st round.

Matthews almost hit 70 goals in 24 and Toronto once again lost in the first round. If Toronto actually wins the cup this year the bean counters heads will explode.

And no, I didn’t read your post. Being retired I have plenty of time but there are still some things I won’t waste it on.

John

 

[TheDarkWingThatDucks]

Played our first good game in the last four, time to post how amazing Cronin is again.

Good to see our young players starting to produce in a small sample size, too bad we are still playing putrid hockey most nights. At least we didn't let Nashville outshoot us 2 to 1 this time around.

I think you are confusing “pro Cronin” which I most certainly am not. I just don’t think he’s the boogeyman a lot of people on this sub think he is. And a major point people use is our young players suck offensively because Cronin only cares about defense, offensive will come naturally. Which I am showing, some actual physical proof the offense is coming for the young guys.

I just don’t know how you can say “ small sample size” when people were banging the drum because our players were being offensively stifled was also a small sample size…..

But really my point is, you confuse my “pro Croninism” for what in reality is, i’m just poking some holes in a lot of this fan bases primal urge to blame Verbeek and Cronin for ruining the development of our young players, when in reality I think they are doing their job, and now the “stats” (which I don’t even think matter) are starting to show signs of improvement for at around 1/4 of an 82 game season.

We are young and young teams aren’t consistent, I just think we are on the right path. Fire Cronin into the sun, but I just hate that people on this sub will be like, see it was always Cronin holding them back, when in reality it will be ….. well Leo is 22 not 18, cutter 23 not 20, minty 23 not 19 …. Etc

You need someone to be the scapegoat for when the kids have zero chance of being a good team.

 

[TheDarkWingThatDucks]

You can't be arbitrarily choosing when a sample begins because the samples beccome just that, arbitrary. Mac's last 24 games, Carlsson's last 19 games, Zegras' last 19 games, and Cutter's last 14 games. And then you use those small samples to play out for the whole season. Which part of each player's game is an aberration?

I do like trends. Mac's gone on a ppg spree last year too in two sample sets of 20 games to start the season and 9 games later in the season. Why did Mac not start at a ppg rate like he did last season?

2023-24: 64 gp, 19g + 23a = 42 pts (0.66 ppg)
2024-25: 63 gp, 18g + 25a = 43 pts (0.68 ppg) with 13 games left on the season.

The scoring rate is similar for similar sample sizes of 63 and 64 games. The most Mac can play this season is 76 games, not 82 games. Extrapolating things to 82 games and using that as the base standard is disingenuous.

We are scoring more, but we're also losing more during the month of March. Two of our wins came against Nashville, where they could not score a goal at 5v5 play. Something is definitely wrong if we're scoring more, but losing more whereas previously we would score less and win or earn more points. Why are we not winning more in March when scoring the most we have all season?

View attachment 996789

Zegras’ last 19 and Mct’s last 23 coincide with Zegras returning from injury (Zegras went scoreless against Florida in his return, so his is actually 20 games + his 3 game suspension.)

So basically since Zegras returned from injury our 2 oldest younger players started immediately playing at a much better scoring rate. Leo took 4 games to get going with Z back, and cutter took about 9 games.

We are a very young team, very young teams struggle to win games in the NHL, we stole games early with elite goaltending, now our offense is starting to play better (being carried by our young talent), but we are losing. I don’t know what you want ? This never was a playoff team, they played some meaningful games in March, young players now getting ALL the time to play and putting up numbers.

What would make you happy ?

 

[Ducks DVM]

Like it or not. Joe Quenville would be a great coach to this team. His baggage is another thing though. Don't know how fans would react

Ethics trumps sports. No thank you.

 

[Static]

Played our first good game in the last four, time to post how amazing Cronin is again.

Good to see our young players starting to produce in a small sample size, too bad we are still playing putrid hockey most nights. At least we didn't let Nashville outshoot us 2 to 1 this time around.

Thought they were good in Dallas as well, at least.

 

[ScarTroy]

You can't be arbitrarily choosing when a sample begins because the samples beccome just that, arbitrary. Mac's last 24 games, Carlsson's last 19 games, Zegras' last 19 games, and Cutter's last 14 games. And then you use those small samples to play out for the whole season. Which part of each player's game is an aberration?

I do like trends. Mac's gone on a ppg spree last year too in two sample sets of 20 games to start the season and 9 games later in the season. Why did Mac not start at a ppg rate like he did last season?

2023-24: 64 gp, 19g + 23a = 42 pts (0.66 ppg)
2024-25: 63 gp, 18g + 25a = 43 pts (0.68 ppg) with 13 games left on the season.

The scoring rate is similar for similar sample sizes of 63 and 64 games. The most Mac can play this season is 76 games, not 82 games. Extrapolating things to 82 games and using that as the base standard is disingenuous.

We are scoring more, but we're also losing more during the month of March. Two of our wins came against Nashville, where they could not score a goal at 5v5 play. Something is definitely wrong if we're scoring more, but losing more whereas previously we would score less and win or earn more points. Why are we not winning more in March when scoring the most we have all season?

View attachment 996789

It’s not just arbitrary numbers. That’s their numbers since Zegras came back from injury no? I think that’s a fair starting point to look at their numbers, seeing as he’s one of the main straws that stirs the drink and really settles out the lines on the Top 9 regardless of where he slots in.

 

[Deuce22]

Interesting that the anti-Cronin/Verbeek sentiment is so strong that fans can't bring themselves to see progress when it's right in front of their eyes. I personally want a new coaching staff next season, but am not unhappy with the overall development of our young players. Cronin is a defensive oriented coach, so offensive numbers will be suppressed. But the young players are getting better (mainly defensively) and I am excited for the future.