Deuce22
Registered User
This is part of a GM's job, to make their team one that people want to play for or coach. If Verbeek can't change this perception, he needs to be replaced by someone who can.
2024-25 Coaching/Management/Ownership
- Thread starter MMC
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The Montgomery thing had nothing to do with him not wanting to come to Anaheim or it not being appealing. It was 100% due to him wanting to be in St Louis.
NHL insider: Jim Montgomery ‘had one eye on the Blues’ after Bruins firing
NHL insider Elliotte Friedman noted on "32 Thoughts" Monday that it wasn't a surprise at all that Jim Montgomery signed with the Blues.www.boston.com
Hands off in terms of hockey operations, not HR issues. Bob's issues were not hockey ops issues.
Bob's issues might have been HR, but they certainly impacted hockey operations. The Samuelis being hands off led to Bob which led the organization to where they are right now - eight years and counting out of the playoffs. Had the Samuelis moved earlier to stabilize the GM role, we might be gearing up for a playoff run right now.
I have a friend who is a professional coach (not hockey) and coaches absolutely want to work with bad teams.
There is literally nothing better for your resume as a coach than taking a bad team and making it better. Doing that for just one team can earn you enough credibility to last your entire career.
Multiple coaches interviewed for the gig when the team was worse than it is now, Cronin just impressed Verbeek enough to get it. I don't even fault Pat, people can be good interviewers and bad at jobs.
There is literally nothing better for your resume as a coach than taking a bad team and making it better. Doing that for just one team can earn you enough credibility to last your entire career.
Multiple coaches interviewed for the gig when the team was worse than it is now, Cronin just impressed Verbeek enough to get it. I don't even fault Pat, people can be good interviewers and bad at jobs.
I mean. I don't know if I agree. His bargain bin diving and asset mismanagement was largely a consequence of the internal cap imposed on him. And I'd argue that the rebuild was prolonged by him not taking constructive action to start the rebuild sooner. The rebuild didn't start until Verbeek was brought in. Likely to me that Murray was either delusional that the team could still compete with Getzlaf aging out or didn't have the sack to tell the Samuelis that he needed the green light to start rebuilding.The Montgomery thing had nothing to do with him not wanting to come to Anaheim or it not being appealing. It was 100% due to him wanting to be in St Louis.
NHL insider: Jim Montgomery ‘had one eye on the Blues’ after Bruins firing
NHL insider Elliotte Friedman noted on "32 Thoughts" Monday that it wasn't a surprise at all that Jim Montgomery signed with the Blues.www.boston.com
Hands off in terms of hockey operations, not HR issues. Bob's issues were not hockey ops issues.
GunnarStahl
Let’s go shake their hands
- Oct 13, 2020
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I can't explain how frustrating it is to hear about how fitness is of the utmost importance and then every time this team plays a back-to-back it looks the like the plane crashed and they had to walk to the next arena.
Ironically, STL looked fresher than ANA the other day when they were on the back half of back-to-back with travel. Travel with complications. Unforgivable...
I agree with this for new or young coaches. They more willing to take a job wherever because NHL jobs are rare and getting one means you're much more likely to get another one. They are also looking to take a job where they can put their stamp on a team, show that their philosophy and systems work, and take a team from doormat to Cup. That's absolutely a young coach's dream.
But the other side is that a GM is less likely to give a new or young coach carte blanche to run the team the way they see fit. As many suspect in Anaheim, Verbeek seems to have a lot of influence on how Cronin does things, although it's unclear exactly how far that goes.
I think it's also true that older, experienced coaches who have already established themselves aren't as likely to come to a situation that requires more patience and effort, or one where the GM is too involved. I'm not sure who all interviewed back then, but we also have more knowledge about how things go under Verbeek. There may be some who interviewed then who wouldn't be quite as keen to interview now.
You have no way of knowing if anything you just said is true. Unless you are in the office, or have heard we have lost good scouts/coaches/players because of Bob's antics you are just speculating.
In fact, I could make an argument that the Ducks have had incredibly stable leadership at the top of the hockey ops side with Madden, McNab, Paterson, and Marchant all being in senior hockey ops positions for 10+ years with Bob as their boss.
Also no way of knowing if the Ducks would have had different results in the past 8 years if they fired Bob before they did.
I was a big Bob supporter until the 2019 deadline. It was clear there that he was delusional when he resigned Silfverberg when he could have traded him for a huge return at the deadline.
The Ducks should have gone into a rebuild there, but Bob thought it was like 2009 or 2012 again. The problem was in 2009 and 2012 the Ducks had Getzlaf and Perry to anchor the retool. In 2019 Getzlaf was 34 and Perry was cooked.
Imagine how impactful it would have been on the rebuild if they had shipped out Silfverberg and Rakell in 2019.
Yep. He tried to prolong the era of competitiveness too long. I don't blame that mindset but the team either needed a massive roster shake up or to just accept that it needed to spend some time rebuilding out of the draft.
I agree with your second paragraph but disagree with your third. Coaches are just like players (some of them of course were players). They're competitive and they want to prove themselves, whether they're new coaches or vets. No good coach would shy away from a challenge or look for the "easy" win.
70sSanO
Registered User
I agree with this.
For all the moaning about the Ducks, the team is a gem for a coach.
We might have one of the best goalie tandems, especially if our D can start to shut down other teams.
Our blue line is young and inexperienced, but the potential is surely there.
We need more scoring, but our core is very strong going forward.
Best off all, we have zero prima donnas with attitudes demanding ice time or special treatment. And we have no bad contracts and a ton of cap space.
For most coaches this is heaven on earth, well minus Verbeek, but I did say "on earth".
John
robbieboy3686
Registered User
- Jan 17, 2016
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Exactly. Maybe when Cronin was hired we weren’t a desired destination. That has changed since
Boo Boo
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- Jan 31, 2013
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Totally agree - like clune for example could have made himself a rising star coach had he been able to get results on our powerplay this year in my opinion
robbieboy3686
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Instead. He will be one year and done. Sucks for him. When you run a pp rhats dead last all season. You deserve to be fired too
I think it takes a much larger leap of assumption to think that a guy who was an alcoholic and abusive to employees did NOT affect operations than that he did.
Also, I'm not even sure I understand your argument against my point. As you say in the second half of your post, Bob's inaction led to a delay of the rebuild which is why the team is where it is. Had the Samuelis acted on firing Murray sooner, the team would have been better off - certainly from an HR standpoint and very likely from a team performance standpoint. I think we agree.
I think that last sentence is begging the question. Winning in the NHL is never easy, even at an established winning franchise. If it was, any fool could do it. I also think it assumes "proving themselves" is the only thing coaches care about. If that's true, then no coach would take a job with a winning organization.
I think there are plenty of coaches who are happy to take positions with established winning organizations and continue guiding them to Cups. If the Lightning fired Cooper, there would be no shortage of coaches lining up to take that job. And I'm sure Jon Cooper would be happy to take a job in, say, Vegas or Colorado despite the fact that they've won Cups recently.
Hockey Duckie
Registered User
I actually liked the re-signing of Silf. I read somewhere long ago that both Rico and Silf knew the org was heading into a rebuild. To me, I like that layering of vets to help protect the upcoming youths.
The team went from the 2nd worst record (2020-21) in the league to holding a playoff spot at All-Star break (2021-22) between two seasons. Already in the pipeline were G Dostal, C Mac, LD LaCombe, LD Zell, LD Thrun, and RW Colangelo. We were in wait mode for the youth to come, but Z and Drysdale's offense popped off in the 2021-22 season along with Terry finally breaking out.
Would Getz have returned an extra year if the team actually made the playoffs that season? Getz said if he went onto another team and tasted the playoffs that he would have kept playing.
Murray resigned from the team in Nov. No helpful transactions took place without a GM during Nov until Feb (All-star break). When Verbeek took over, he still didn't help the young team when Manson went on IR during All-star break. What Verbeek said to the press after he was hired was just a farce.
From the Detroit News:
Named general manager of the Anaheim Ducks on Thursday, Verbeek is going to an organization in third place in the Pacific Division, in a wild-card spot, and past the early stages of the rebuild phase.
"This team doesn't need to be rebuilt; they're in the middle of their rebuild, so this is a great opportunity to take this team forward and turn them into a contender," Verbeek said during his introductory press conference. "You don't have to come in there and look to take a long time. There's good players in the NHL, good players in the minors and there are players that have been drafted. There's a lot coming to support the growth of this team. That's truly what I'm excited about."
No helpful transactions took place from Murray the offseason prior, maybe if they had an injury to Manson wouldn't have tanked that season
Hockey Duckie
Registered User
Surf Nutz
Hockey Remote Viewer With A Frozen Finger
I think the root of the problem is the internal cap. IC
On top of limiting the chances of success by limiting salaries it deters talent from coming to the Ducks, even
for the GM , coach not just the players.
That's not to say that Verbeek and the Ducks can't build their way with the young talent they now possess.
Hopefully that would also motivate ownership to raise or eliminate the IC.
On top of limiting the chances of success by limiting salaries it deters talent from coming to the Ducks, even
for the GM , coach not just the players.
That's not to say that Verbeek and the Ducks can't build their way with the young talent they now possess.
Hopefully that would also motivate ownership to raise or eliminate the IC.
We spent to the cap multiple times in our 2013-2018 cup chase seasons
Like it or not. Joe Quenville would be a great coach to this team. His baggage is another thing though. Don't know how fans would react
I don’t disagree necessarily that a coach who’s a carbon copy of Q but with a different last name would be great for them.
I just don’t see that being something ownership and management would do. Boudreau would be great tho if he still wants a gig.
