I tend to agree. I think he’s a pretty obstinate guy. He cares what people say but it probably only emboldens him.
Speculation: 2024-25 Coaching/Management/Ownership
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Dr Johnny Fever
RIP Grizzly 399
What concerns me is that regardless of which way it goes, it doesn't sound like vets and young guys are on the same page. That goes very contrary to the idea of bringing in vets to help mentor the young guys. It doesn't sound like there is cohesion there.
That's a good point. and i think it's fair to say it's really some of both groups because we know there've been a handful of vets who've either sounded lukewarm like Terry and Killorn and then blatantly critical like Silf and Lyubushkin. I'm sure it's way more fluid than these guys made it sound and not at all black and white like many workplace things are.
Edit: Their comment about Leo having a good sophomore year and then this dividing line towards Cronin which sounds like the opposite of what we heard previously makes me skeptical of how much they really know about the Ducks and whether this is really new/additional info or stuff that's been out there and they're sort of regurgitating it.
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robbieboy3686
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- Jan 17, 2016
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Look I’m on the same page as you . But I’m trying to view from the lens of an overly stubborn old school first time Gm verbeek. I’m looking for check marks in cronins favor ( there are minimal) but unfortunately he has outs, if we are playing “ meaningful games in March” he will be back next season barring the perfect verbeek veteran replacement coach becoming available between now and the draft
They bring up a good point that Columbus is a good example of where we should be in an ideal situation. Not a playoff team but youth developing, offense clicking, the team looking like they're having fun. I've said a few times this year that Columbus is a good example of a non playoff team looking like they're on the right track in the rebuild.
Not like I'm trying to declare myself some genius but it's edifying to hear it from someone else as a comparison to the Ducks.
Not like I'm trying to declare myself some genius but it's edifying to hear it from someone else as a comparison to the Ducks.
He extremely vaguely described what happened, and calling someone an idiot is actively humiliating them. That's pot calling the kettle black. I get most everyone hates Cronin, and I've been on and off that train, but I'm just being objective here, on what is a subjective opinion of one player.
Columbus is a tough comparison though. On paper, both are young teams trying to make the next step. Both have young players trying to grow. Columbus started off really poorly and improved which is something the Ducks have not been able to do. However, the death of a beloved player on the team is a major unifying thing. It seems implausible that the room would be divided after something like that it, and winning games probably brings them closer.
The Ducks, in comparison, have someone in Cronin who has divided his players (young/vets) and is on record as having psychologically hurt players on this team. LaCombe needed outside help to process Cronin's behavior and actions. Columbus plays for each other, the Ducks don't. Columbus has a coach who knows what he's doing, the Ducks don't.
Not that he's the main piece but they seem to have turned it around when they picked up Fabbro, which I believe we had a chance to snag first. We have Helleson tho who maybe one day could become as good of a player, who knows.
But yeah, good for Columbus
Smirnov2Chistov
Fire Greg Cronin!
On the Silf subject, I believe a player who is well respected, was a leader and almost a team ambassador here over this shit coach. I’m sure there are even more crazy stories
Woodcraft would be amazing here..
Woodcraft would be amazing here..
Hockey Duckie
Registered User
Columbus
Record: 23-17-7 (53 pts)
GF: 162 (6 out of 32)
PP GF: 28 (19th)
GA: 165 (27 out of 32)
Anaheim
Record: 19-23-6 (44 pts)
GF: 116 (32 out of 32)
PP GF: 17 (31 out of 32)
GA: 149 (19 out of 32)
It's kinda gross to see Columbus being worse than us defensively, but far superior offensively which gives the Blue Jackets nine more points than us. We're loaded with young offensive forwards and we're muting their offense on purpose.
robbieboy3686
Registered User
- Jan 17, 2016
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They're not worse than us defensively. Their goaltending isn't as good.
Expected goals against
Ana: 119.96 (2nd most)
Cbj: 111.54 (4th most)
Expected goals against per 60
Ana: 2.99 (highest in the NHL)
Cbj: 2.7 (5th highest)
Expected goal differential (accounting for both expected offense and defense)
Ana: -26.81(second to last in the NHL)
Cbj: -13.11 (27th in NHL)
Shots on goal against raw total
Ana: 1200 (4th most in the NHL)
CBJ (had one game in hand before the Nashville game which is being played right now): 1111 (11th most in the NHL)
High danger shots against
Ana: 128 (3rd most in NHL, MTL recently passed us)
Cbj: 110 (9th most in the NHL)
Medium danger shots against
Ana: 349 (most in the NHL)
Cbj: 329 (4th most in NHL)
Save % on shots on goal
Ana: 92.08% (8th in the NHL)
Cbj: 90.46% (23rd)
Goalies GSAA
Gibson: 14.3 (4th most in the NHL)
Dostal: 14.2 (5th most in the NHL)
Greaves: 1.3 (40th most in the NHL)
Merzlikins: -2.7 (62nd in the NHL)
Tarasov: -8 (81st in the NHL)
GSAA per 60
Gibson 0.759 (7th most in the NHL)
Dostal 0.519 (12th most in the NHL)
Greaves 0.259 (30th in the NHL but he's only played 5 games)
Merzlikins -0.087 (ranked 51st in the NHL)
Tarasov -0.612 (ranked 76th in the NHL)
Columbus having more goals against is not evidence of worse defense than us. It's evidence that their goaltenders are below average to bad. Our defensive stats are worse. Not by a tremendous degree but they're worse.
I do agree with your last point though.
MMC
Global Moderator
Cronin comes under scrutiny and our guys put it on themselves to come through for him and respond with 2 consecutive 5 goal performances.
These guys truly love their head coach.
Thank you Gregory Cronin
These guys truly love their head coach.
Thank you Gregory Cronin
Hockey Duckie
Registered User
So what you're reiterating is both defenses suck terribly (xGA, xGA/60, HDCA, MDCA), but the disparity in points would be so much worse if it were not for Gibby and Dostal. Oddly enough, having a terrible defense doesn't prevent Columbus from scoring a lot of goals.
More or less. I mean last night is a pretty good example of the problem in Anaheim. They have the capacity to win games when their offense works but defensively it still wasn't a great game. The key difference is Dostal stood on his head in relief of Gibson and the Ducks consistently found the back of the net.
I don't have a problem with the Ducks stressing defense as the priority. In today's NHL, while the physicality of defending has decreased the demand for tight suffocating defense based on good positioning and active sticks is actually higher than ever. So it takes a lot of buy in and proper game prep to have a 5 man system defending effectively.
That said, it's still a higher scoring league these days and the defensive structure can't suffocate offense either in a higher scoring league specifically because defensive demands have increased in response to the higher speed and skill style of offense common in the NHL today.
I don't expect Anaheim to be dominant at both or even one or the other while they're still rebuilding. But it seems the team, as a whole is coached under the philosophy that we focus on defense first and only and the offense will come later. So I would expect, if the team really was being game prepped for defense fist and foremost, for the team to be a fair bit higher in the metrics and not as reliant as they've been on good goaltending. It's the only way it could be acceptable that the team is so bad offensively that most of the kids are suffering offensive stagnation or regression.
I'm happy to see that the team has had an offensive surge the past two games led by a slighted McTavish with a chip on his shoulder but it was against a couple weak teams which I saw you mention last night. Not ready to say it's a trend. In any case I don't ultimately agree with the approach to focus on defense first, defense only especially given that it's not strictly working. Yes, our youth core needs to learn to play at least average team and individual defense for today's NHL but the bulk of them were identified and acquired/drafted for their offensive ability. Carlsson, Zegras, Cutter, Mac, Mintyukov, Zellweger. In a high scoring NHL, we need to look to these guys to bring this team enough offense make us competitive enough that we can start at least being competitive and so that we help these kids meet their high potential. To me, that should have been the first priority and the defense could be coached in/taught later (a team like Vegas has routinely been able to coach even defensively average or below average players to effectively buy into and execute proper 5 man defensive systems). The current offensive stagnation of the kids with a coach who has publicly admitted he won't change the offensive "formula" because it would compromise his defensive structure (that is statistically failing) is still deeply concerning irrespective of these past two wins.
We need a coach who can implement a philosophy of improvements to both the offense and defense simultaneously. Greg has been around the game long enough to know that more offensive zone time=less time defending and the premise of "just shoot the puck from anywhere" can easily lead to more one and done ozone entries that lead to more time defending. So this has been a long way of saying, yes, everything you said about my citation to stats is accurate and I am deeply concerned that even if Greg finds a way to get the team as a whole to win enough games against mediocre to bad teams to look like things are improving, I still worry that the offensive potential of our youth core will not be facilitated and properly developed in the name of defense, that so far, is near league worst anyway. I still think Greg needs to go in spite of these wins. Be it this coming week or end of the season. We have one shot to develop these kids and the time we have to maximize their potential before they hit their primes is getting shorter and shorter every game.
At this point I’d just keep Cronin till the summer and see how Verbeek’s off season goes with acquiring more talent. The kids overall are starting to look a little better since Zegras has been back , have 33 games left so let’s see what happens.
The only players that are really struggling are the youngest on the team so I’m not really too concerned at the moment, especially if they can start to make some strides the rest of the year.
It really goes to show how important Zegras is to this team and I hope Verbeek sees that.
I don’t want to get ahead of myself the last two games were good. But can they sustain this and actually go on a run?
The only players that are really struggling are the youngest on the team so I’m not really too concerned at the moment, especially if they can start to make some strides the rest of the year.
It really goes to show how important Zegras is to this team and I hope Verbeek sees that.
I don’t want to get ahead of myself the last two games were good. But can they sustain this and actually go on a run?
Last night was the type of game I thought we’d see a lot more of this year where we do well offensively but not great defensively.
TheDarkWingThatDucks
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- Oct 30, 2024
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I know we love stats here, so I looked up what scoring first does for an NHL team, and apparently you win about 66% of the games in which you score first.
Eakins last year 82 games.
9-14-2 record when scoring first, which means in 30% of our games we scored first, we won 36% of those games.
Cronin’s first year 82 games.
16-11-3 record when scoring first, which means in 37% of our games we scored first and we won 53% of those games.
Current year 49 games.
16-6-4 record when scoring first, which means in 53% of our games we scored first and we won 62% of those games.
What does it mean, nothing really, scoring first in all 82 games and winning 66% of those games would result in about 54 wins and 108 pts.
Just some fun dumb stats that mean nothing but show some gradual team improvement.
Eakins last year 82 games.
9-14-2 record when scoring first, which means in 30% of our games we scored first, we won 36% of those games.
Cronin’s first year 82 games.
16-11-3 record when scoring first, which means in 37% of our games we scored first and we won 53% of those games.
Current year 49 games.
16-6-4 record when scoring first, which means in 53% of our games we scored first and we won 62% of those games.
What does it mean, nothing really, scoring first in all 82 games and winning 66% of those games would result in about 54 wins and 108 pts.
Just some fun dumb stats that mean nothing but show some gradual team improvement.
TheDarkWingThatDucks
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- Oct 30, 2024
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I saw something where the last two seasons with and without Zegras in the lineup.
Last year
13-16-2 with 31 games
14-34-3 without 51 games
This year
12-12-3 with 27 games
8-11-3 without 22 games
Total
25-28-5 with 58 games
22-45-6 without 73 games
Missing your 22-23 (soon to be 24) year old, oldest “young” prospect who is a top 6 player definitely isn’t ideal for winning hockey games. Especially with 18-19 year old Leo / 20-21 year old cutter / 20-21 (soon to be 22) year old McT being asked to should that load. Maybe being so hurt and getting Sennecke will be a blessing in disguise longterm for us. Our PP is better, we can roll 3 lines deep (swapping Fabbri for a legit top 6 / middle 6 goal scorer would be ideal.).
It will be especially nice if that 4th line shutdown line actually can be as useful as they have been recently. (2 games hahahaha)
Long story long, you’re right Cronin wasn’t going anywhere, and unless something weird happens isn’t going anywhere til the end of the year. 33 games to try and see if this team has actually grown at all seems like it would be giving Cronin a “fair shake”. Is top 6 missed 25% of the year last year and played like 5 games together. All the underlining numbers are doo doo paper, but I was looking at Barkov’s stats his second year and he was a PPG player the final 13 games of the year, does Leo have that in him playing with Z and Killorn now ? I mentioned last year McT had 21 pts in his first 20 games, had 21 pts in his other 44 games, and missed 18 games. He started last year as the PPG monster, does he have a 30 game run in him ? Would that be an improvement ?
Here’s a little quote I like, the two most powerful warriors are patience and time. (Which I think was a sick sniper rifle in the video game Destiny ?, also a line in this catchy little ditty.)
TheDarkWingThatDucks
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Can I ask what gives you insecure vibes ? Any specific quotes or anything. Or just a gut feeling because you don’t think he’s good at his job ?
If Helleson doesn’t count as a Cronin player, then does Rantanen not count as a player Bednar developed since he came from the AHL ?
Rasp
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We have a lot of bandwagon supporters jumping on and off after wins and losses.
We just beat two of the worst teams in the competition and both of them are on a big downswing compared to last year.
Big wins are nice but consistency is better. Cronin still needs to go.
We just beat two of the worst teams in the competition and both of them are on a big downswing compared to last year.
Big wins are nice but consistency is better. Cronin still needs to go.
I agree with you, but to be fair Nashville apparently was on an impressive heater and playing really well.
AngelDuck
Rak 'em up
- Jun 16, 2012
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Agreed. The only thing that would chance my opinion on Cronin is if he finds a way to get the power play going and the young guys go on a tear to end the year
I have serious doubts on either
I'm always happy with wins over losses, and the Ducks legitimately outplayed Pittsburgh (who looked awful, but still). But the win over Nashville was opportunistic. It's nice, because the Ducks have not been opportunistic very much. But they still got outchanced pretty heavily at 5-on-5. I'd love to see consistency in their performance.
