Speculation: 2024-25 Coaching/Management/Ownership

[Dr Johnny Fever]

So, Cronin says people are different and that's how he coaches. Not really addressing the fact that his style may not be the most effective in this era as pointed out publicly by former players.

I don't find that to be a positive in this team's development.

Also seemingly admitting that there's a world of difference between coaching in the A and coaching in the NHL. Too bad Verbeek didn't understand that before hiring him.

 

[Terry Yake]

Yeah. This is the point when people complain about the criticisms of Carlyle. Like everyone here recognizes he was a good coach in his era. The problem is he didn't change with the game.

Carlyle took the team to the conference finals before the league really shifted to a universal emphasis on more speed, zone/collapse defense, and moving away from board cycle play which was really Carlyle's bread and butter. The shift started to happen around 2018 and I'd argue that Vegas modeled their approach after the cup winning Pittsburgh teams. When the league saw a cobbled together roster took that approach all the way to the finals, the whole league started playing that way. Carlyle didn't keep up. He had the players to make his older systems work (guys like Getzlaf and Kesler leading the way in that regard) and the league hadn't uniformly adapted to the new style yet. The run up to the 2018 playoffs and the eventual thrashing we got from San Jose indicated the cracks had formed and Carlyle was falling behind.

By the time he was fired, the game had completely passed him by.

i'd argue that the game had already passed carlyle by at the time of his first firing in 2011. that's part of the reason why murray bringing him back was widely panned as a dumb move by most ducks fans. carlyle just road what BB had built into the WCF in 17

 

[Hockey Duckie]

A couple things. First, where did Verbeek say he wanted regenda on the NHL club and Eakins didn’t ?
Second, Eakins was never going to be the coach long term, he was a lame duck coach to tank for Bedard.
Third, I don’t know for sure, but if I had to guess, including both the AHL and the NHL we have the most rookies and second year players in the organization. As another point for this, if winning pt percentage is your main criteria for individual development (which if anyone watched McIlvane’s introductory press conference he said is the most important part of his job) you’re in for a bad time. Young teams don’t win a lot in the NHL, in fact if Montreal makes the playoffs they would be the youngest team ever to do so, at average age of 25.50. 26.00 is the youngest (twice), we are 26.48 and gonna be younger when we trade Dumo.

1. Regenda. Made roster out of camp in 2022-23. Played 14 games, sent down and called back up once. Last game played was Dec 4, 2022. Next time Regenda played in the NHL was in March 2024. Back on the boards in 2022 was when there were discussions about it b/c Regenda just wasn't good enough to be at the NHL level.

Eakins on Regenda's call-up, with a cushioned response.

“He was sent down more as a roster issue, to get some games under his belt. Those guys that come back up usually give you really good games early and then they kind of level off and start to fall off.​

​

“He’s starting to drop. … You’ve got to fight and claw every day just to stay another day. That’s no shot at the player, or criticism of the player. That’s just the reality of a young player’s career.​

​

“When you look at some of our really high-end younger players, the thing that we talk about all the time is playing consistently at a high level. It’s hard to do and it just takes time to understand how to do it.”​

2. Why are you obsessed with inserting thoughts that I never brought up with "Eakins was never going to be the coach long term"? If you could read with comprehension, I used Eakins to identify the defensive scheme was the same prior to Cronin, but the offense was not. This is also corroborated with Philly's HC Torts saying Drysdale needed to learn how to play zone scheme than man scheme, which was what Anaheim was deploying. Also, I used Eakins to identify the offensive scheme was different, which is why our offensive youths are struggling to produce under Cronin. Thus, under Verbeek, we've been implementing man defense for three seasons at the NHL and AHL levels as well as using "rush offense" as our offensive scheme at the NHL and AHL levels for the past two seasons.

3. We are young at the NHL and AHL level. Both coaches are producing similarly for the past two seasons. Neither coach is making a large contingent of youths improve at either level. Promoting McIlvane to the NHL level points to the same process, especially so if McIlvane is focused mostly on individual improvement and not overall scheme - implying he's just following orders on what scheme to use.

Like yourself, I was hyped on McIlvane b/c he comes off more Eakins than Cronin. The past year and a half Gulls seasons has soured me on McIlvane. I was hoping to see what McIlvane could do with 1st rounders LW Tracey and RW Perreault, who both looked great two years prior that resulted in a call-up to the NHL as recognition.

 

[TheDarkWingThatDucks]

1. Regenda. Made roster out of camp in 2022-23. Played 14 games, sent down and called back up once. Last game played was Dec 4, 2022. Next time Regenda played in the NHL was in March 2024. Back on the boards in 2022 was when there were discussions about it b/c Regenda just wasn't good enough to be at the NHL level.

Eakins on Regenda's call-up, with a cushioned response.

“He was sent down more as a roster issue, to get some games under his belt. Those guys that come back up usually give you really good games early and then they kind of level off and start to fall off.​

​

“He’s starting to drop. … You’ve got to fight and claw every day just to stay another day. That’s no shot at the player, or criticism of the player. That’s just the reality of a young player’s career.​

​

“When you look at some of our really high-end younger players, the thing that we talk about all the time is playing consistently at a high level. It’s hard to do and it just takes time to understand how to do it.”​

2. Why are you obsessed with inserting thoughts that I never brought up with "Eakins was never going to be the coach long term"? If you could read with comprehension, I used Eakins to identify the defensive scheme was the same prior to Cronin, but the offense was not. This is also corroborated with Philly's HC Torts saying Drysdale needed to learn how to play zone scheme than man scheme, which was what Anaheim was deploying. Also, I used Eakins to identify the offensive scheme was different, which is why our offensive youths are struggling to produce under Cronin. Thus, under Verbeek, we've been implementing man defense for three seasons at the NHL and AHL levels as well as using "rush offense" as our offensive scheme at the NHL and AHL levels for the past two seasons.

3. We are young at the NHL and AHL level. Both coaches are producing similarly for the past two seasons. Neither coach is making a large contingent of youths improve at either level. Promoting McIlvane to the NHL level points to the same process, especially so if McIlvane is focused mostly on individual improvement and not overall scheme - implying he's just following orders on what scheme to use.

Like yourself, I was hyped on McIlvane b/c he comes off more Eakins than Cronin. The past year and a half Gulls seasons has soured me on McIlvane. I was hoping to see what McIlvane could do with 1st rounders LW Tracey and RW Perreault, who both looked great two years prior that resulted in a call-up to the NHL as recognition.

2) ….. paraphrasing your exact words. Eakins won the battle, but lost the war (his job).

I don’t know what type of reading comprehension I need to retort that with , “Eakins was a lame duck coach who was never the option long term”.

So because regenda got a chance at the start of the season, and Eakins said he wasn’t ready, somehow Verbeek wanted him and fought with Eakins over it ?

Edit : the sword you want to fall on is :

Tracey went from 28 pts 62 games year before McIlvane to 25 pts 55 games with.

Jacob went from 19 pts in 48 games year before McIlvane to 18 pts in 31 games with.

 

[The Midnight Burrito]

Also, I just went back and read the entire 16 page discussion on that GDT and just unhinged Terry sucks, that contract is awful. LaCombe sucks, Cronin sucks, owners suck, Verbeek sucks, I’d rather get shutout than Killorn be the one to score, not watching another game this year. You actually tuned out yourself and started playing video games… whatcha play ?

Meaning what?

A head coach ripping into his players down 0-5 on the way to their 10th regulation loss (11th total loss)in 12 games isn’t some weird thing. Silf is fine to say how he feels, and the only thing that is weird is “Cronin is an idiot.” That I think Silf should have to elaborate on that, because Cronin last year had nothing but amazing things to say about Silf, as a leader and vet.

Also, Europeans are soft …. /s

This isn’t responsive to what I said at all. You’re so anxious to cast the criticism a certain way that you’re not understanding it, which I assume is the point.

 

[HanSolo]

i'd argue that the game had already passed carlyle by at the time of his first firing in 2011. that's part of the reason why murray bringing him back was widely panned as a dumb move by most ducks fans. carlyle just road what BB had built into the WCF in 17

I was being generous for the most part but I do think he at least had the players to squeeze out one more good run playing his brand of hockey. When the game shifted league wide he couldn't get away with that anymore and it didn't help that his vets were starting to naturally decline.

 

[The Midnight Burrito]

I obviously don't know the details of exactly what Cronin said or how he behaved, but I didn't find it that outrageous that a coach would yell and challenge his players when they were playing like that (every game against Edmonton was a disaster last season). I still would prefer him gone, but this incident isn't completely out of line to me (given the information that we have).

It doesn’t sound all that strange to me either, but then I can’t really remember a coach telling his players to get on the ice so he can shout at them while staring them in the eye. It sort of seems like a Mike Keenan move? And he did like to humiliate his players.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

So, Cronin says people are different and that's how he coaches. Not really addressing the fact that his style may not be the most effective in this era as pointed out publicly by former players.

I don't find that to be a positive in this team's development.

Also seemingly admitting that there's a world of difference between coaching in the A and coaching in the NHL. Too bad Verbeek didn't understand that before hiring him.

If Verbeek didn't understand the difference between coaching at the AHL and NHL levels, then Verbeek needs to be fired.

I think Verbeek loved what Cronin presented. Recall, they spent several hours together talking. Verbeek saw himself in Cronin as they both shared the same vision of how hockey players should be and nothing else exists outside of that realm. The end goal was the culture will raise the game play into the playoffs. The theory and application have differing results. We are in year 2 of Cronin and the productions are quite similarly bad. Verbeek may actually believe that a third time is the charm for next season?

Verbeek likes utilizing 1-goal games as his go-to metric. It has improved between the two Cronin seasons with both 1-goal games and non 1-goal games. Currently, the Pts % is also much better than the previous two seasons. I can easily see Verbeek do mental gymnastics to keep Cronin around for year 3, but I truly hope Verbeek doesn't.

 

[TheDarkWingThatDucks]

Meaning what?

This isn’t responsive to what I said at all. You’re so anxious to cast the criticism a certain way that you’re not understanding it, which I assume is the point.

Meaning our entire fan base was pissed at the game, I can see why our coach was too.

Which way am I casting the criticism ? Not being disingenuous either, serious question. I’m just trying to paint the full picture of why our coach may have been yelling down 5-0 in the 11th lost in 12 games.

From what I got from your post, Cronin continues to fall back on his back in my day this was allowed. Which is a fair point you make, I’m just trying to give context to why he blew up that game. And honestly he’s a dick, but I’d rather have my coach yell at people to have some heart, while losing 5-0 to a division after losing 11 of 12 games.

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

If Verbeek didn't understand the difference between coaching at the AHL and NHL levels, then Verbeek needs to be fired.

Well, he certainly didn't realize the trouble his minor league hire was going to have in trying to adapt.

I'm certainly less enamored with Verbeek than when he was first hired, but I'm also at the point of not caring enough to get into that too.

 

[Daz28]

Meaning our entire fan base was pissed at the game, I can see why our coach was too.

Which way am I casting the criticism ? Not being disingenuous either, serious question. I’m just trying to paint the full picture of why our coach may have been yelling down 5-0 in the 11th lost in 12 games.

From what I got from your post, Cronin continues to fall back on his back in my day this was allowed. Which is a fair point you make, I’m just trying to give context to why he blew up that game. And honestly he’s a dick, but I’d rather have my coach yell at people to have some heart, while losing 5-0 to a division after losing 11 of 12 games.

I'd also be happy to be rid of the player who was mad they got yelled at for losing 5-0. The thing that drew my alarm bells was that Cro seemed to be blindsided by Silf's comments. That goes a LONG way into telling me who is the disingenuous person. I don't want to go full conspiracy on this, but if there's a locker room issue, it might be from a guy who gets along fine with his coach, but calls him an idiot in private. I hope Silf clears this matter up, because he's the one who unnecessarily started it.

 

[Kalv]

As I mentioned already yesterday, I'm very high on Woodcroft, I have just looked into him tho. But pretty much all the comments I saw, was that the Oil fans were sad to have him canned when it happened. He has been the most successful coach in Oilers (reg season) in decades, it seems. No reason not to believe he isn't good for the playoffs.

Turns out he reached out to Torts in the offseason and went to work with him to get better. I can only wish Pat would like this and we hire him. This would return my faith for Pat (Pat, if you're reading this, do it!!!)

John Tortorella comments on taking Jay Woodcroft under his wing

John Tortorella commented on mentoring former Oilers coach Jay Woodcroft in training camp. Details inside.

www.oilersdaily.com

 

[Lord Flashheart]

I'd also be happy to be rid of the player who was mad they got yelled at for losing 5-0. The thing that drew my alarm bells was that Cro seemed to be blindsided by Silf's comments. That goes a LONG way into telling me who is the disingenuous person. I don't want to go full conspiracy on this, but if there's a locker room issue, it might be from a guy who gets along fine with his coach, but calls him an idiot in private. I hope Silf clears this matter up, because he's the one who unnecessarily started it.

There's nothing to clear up from Silf's side, if he had an axe to grind he would have done it by now.

There's also a difference between yelling and going full psycho. Besides that, most of the players don't like losing.

The irony of the whole thing is the person who was supposed to equip them not to go on such a streak did not do a good enough job, then lacking self awareness behaved like he did.

 

[Firequacker]

The more I've thought about it, the more I am getting most bothered by the fact that the incident Silfverberg describes occurred during the 20-game "step back and let the players figure it out" stretch. It's okay for Cronin to step back and not do his job so much, but if then the players aren't doing so well at theirs they still get scolded like misbehaving pets in the middle of the game? That's not a way I want a "culture and character" coach behaving in any case. If you're going to step back and trust them to figure it out, do that. If you're not coaching them you definitely don't get to pull weird power moves on them.

What I wonder is if the reason this stuck out as the worst to Silfverberg was along that track. He describes Cronin sending them onto the ice and "then he behaved like a pig/idiot," which implies he did take some sort of issue with the yelling itself. But I just can't see Silf of all people describing the mere act of a coach yelling at his players that way. Again, Carlyle veteran. I'd tend to doubt this was the only time Cronin yelled at them that season, for that matter, but it's the one he brings up.

So, did Cronin ever manage to earn buy-in from all of the veterans? This was the fourth game against Edmonton and they were all tire fires. What adjustments, if any, were made? Exactly how much was Cronin stepping back in those last 20 games? Had the players recognized or been informed of that?
They were on a 1-11-1 stretch and he's mad? Okay, sure, but was he doing anything about it five games ago? Two games ago? We've seen enough of his coaching to question this. Remember the closest equivalent we know of this season is when it took him five+ periods and twelve goals to do "show some pride!" after he'd failed to adjust anything between games because "we just went with what we did before." Sure, yell at the players if they deserve it, but what would you say you do here?

It's one thing to be kicked while you're down by a hardass who has the bona fides and has earned the right. It's another to be kicked while you're down by a guy who's inept at his own job. It all seems to go back to whether the players respect him for anything more than the power he holds over their playing time.

 

[ohcomeonref]

i truly don't understand how anyone thinks is a good plan. the youth is getting worse under him. we're not improving under Cronin in any way. like giving Cronin another year just to let the guy in SD who is also not doing well and following Cronin's system seems like a great way to make sure this team is stuck in the bottom for the next decade.

At least the team won't have any fans left to disappoint.

 

[HanSolo]

The more I've thought about it, the more I am getting most bothered by the fact that the incident Silfverberg describes occurred during the 20-game "step back and let the players figure it out" stretch. It's okay for Cronin to step back and not do his job so much, but if then the players aren't doing so well at theirs they still get scolded like misbehaving pets in the middle of the game? That's not a way I want a "culture and character" coach behaving in any case. If you're going to step back and trust them to figure it out, do that. If you're not coaching them you definitely don't get to pull weird power moves on them.

What I wonder is if the reason this stuck out as the worst to Silfverberg was along that track. He describes Cronin sending them onto the ice and "then he behaved like a pig/idiot," which implies he did take some sort of issue with the yelling itself. But I just can't see Silf of all people describing the mere act of a coach yelling at his players that way. Again, Carlyle veteran. I'd tend to doubt this was the only time Cronin yelled at them that season, for that matter, but it's the one he brings up.

So, did Cronin ever manage to earn buy-in from all of the veterans? This was the fourth game against Edmonton and they were all tire fires. What adjustments, if any, were made? Exactly how much was Cronin stepping back in those last 20 games? Had the players recognized or been informed of that?
They were on a 1-11-1 stretch and he's mad? Okay, sure, but was he doing anything about it five games ago? Two games ago? We've seen enough of his coaching to question this. Remember the closest equivalent we know of this season is when it took him five+ periods and twelve goals to do "show some pride!" after he'd failed to adjust anything between games because "we just went with what we did before." Sure, yell at the players if they deserve it, but what would you say you do here?

It's one thing to be kicked while you're down by a hardass who has the bona fides and has earned the right. It's another to be kicked while you're down by a guy who's inept at his own job. It all seems to go back to whether the players respect him for anything more than the power he holds over their playing time.

Honestly, I didn't even think of when in the season this happened and I've been kind of taking the approach that whatever, this isn't that big a deal, it just might indicate that he doesn't have the respect of the players which is a problem.

But considering that was, like you said, during his "step back and watch what they do if they try to figure it out on their own" 20 game vacation from coaching, that really reframes the circumstances.

The team was not getting direction in game prep and strategies and were-instead- in an ongoing experiment to see how they'd react to no coaching. How does that experiment work if you blow up on them for getting blown out in a game where they were essentially coaching themselves? Does that not indicate that they don't know how to figure it out for themselves? Is screaming in their faces and demanding they maintain eye contact with you while you do it part of the experiment too?

I mean this just brings me back to the conclusion that he doesn't know what he's doing more than whether his messaging and voice works in today's NHL. Shouting down the team he wasn't coaching for getting embarrassed in a game is madness honestly. But then again not coaching a team for a quarter of a season in a development year in the first place is madness in and of itself.

 

[Daz28]

There's nothing to clear up from Silf's side, if he had an axe to grind he would have done it by now.

There's also a difference between yelling and going full psycho. Besides that, most of the players don't like losing.

The irony of the whole thing is the person who was supposed to equip them not to go on such a streak did not do a good enough job, then lacking self awareness behaved like he did.

Pretty sure he did grind his axe, and that's what we're talking about. I'm saying, that because Cronin was surprised, maybe the axe wasn't as sharp as it was reported. If that's the case, I'd like Silf to clear it up. If he remains silent, that would make it pretty clear that it was truthful reporting. I wasn't there, so I have no idea if he went full psycho. You'd think a camera or someone would have picked it up. Perhaps other players in the future will help clarify. You can't always blame a coach for skids, esp a new one with an injured, young, poor roster. That's ridiculous.

 

[The Midnight Burrito]

Meaning our entire fan base was pissed at the game, I can see why our coach was too.

Which way am I casting the criticism ? Not being disingenuous either, serious question. I’m just trying to paint the full picture of why our coach may have been yelling down 5-0 in the 11th lost in 12 games.

From what I got from your post, Cronin continues to fall back on his back in my day this was allowed. Which is a fair point you make, I’m just trying to give context to why he blew up that game. And honestly he’s a dick, but I’d rather have my coach yell at people to have some heart, while losing 5-0 to a division after losing 11 of 12 games.

You should re-read the first sentence then, and while you’re at it ask yourself whether you’d like any of the people who posted in that thread coaching the team. If not, then you should acknowledge that you’re making my point for me.

 

[TheDarkWingThatDucks]

You should re-read the first sentence then, and while you’re at it ask yourself whether you’d like any of the people who posted in that thread coaching the team. If not, then you should acknowledge that you’re making my point for me.

So this is the line we are talking about right ?

“I take it for granted that you wouldn’t do something like that as a coach/boss/manager unless you felt it needed to be done, so I’m not really seeing the excuse”

So i guess I don’t understand what you are saying the excuse is ?

I think you are saying that you take it for granted that a boss isn’t going to yell at you unless they truly felt it was the best way to reach you ?

But what excuse is it Cronin is using ?

Edit: and no I don’t want anyone on this forum myself included coaching this team, but yelling at players “humiliating them” isn’t a reason why I wouldn’t.

Edit 2 : and I don’t even want Cronin as the coach, I just heard he was a good developmental coach when we hired him and thought good that’s what we need. He hasn’t shown the ability to coach at the NHL level, and I’ve said a thousand times, without looking at pts, individually I think players are progressing to Verbeek’s liking (and he knows more than we do about everything going on, so I trust him) otherwise Cronin would already be fired.