Speculation: 2024-25 Coaching/Management/Ownership

[robbieboy3686]

It's not like he's being asked to re-invent the wheel either. "How can

 

[HanSolo]

Honestly, it starts with the admission that he spent 20 games last year not coaching and just observing to see what the players would do if they essentially were left to their own devices so he could "learn what these players need"

Tack on all the "I don't knows", tack on Vaakanainen's insight into what was going on in the locker room last year, tack on Killorn and Terry publicly admitting that this team has no cohesion because they don't know where their linemates are going to be, tack on Cronin's admission last night that there's no adjustments needed to the offensive system they just need to win more puck battles and shoot the puck more (I mean the balls to say that when we've spent the entire season dead last or within one game's worth of goals to dead last in goal scoring), tack on that more of our kids are stagnating or really struggling than not in a development year, tack on that our highest draft pick since Bobby Ryan continues to be stapled to a guy he has had no chemistry with the entire time he's been here, and I just don't know how people can still defend this guy and blame the players.

Yes of course the players need to be better but winning puck battles comes from proper conditioning in the weight room and drilling in practice. Effective offensive systems comes from chemistry, x's and o's strategies, and effective drilling in practice. And motivation to work hard comes from the culture in the locker room. Maybe this group of guys have a loser's mentality. Maybe our leadership is lacking. But the coaching staff are motivators too and they're not motivating enough.

Yes that run where we beat some good teams established that this team can perform at a higher level. It's the coach's job to get the team to execute that consistently.

After the loss to St. Louis (because you can argue that at least against Calgary the team still had some fight if not finish), which was an embarrassingly bad performance between effort, systems, and execution, it became our coaching staff's job to get this team to get back to at least having that fight and the execution of basic plays to be competitive even in a loss. Instead they followed a bad performance with a worse one and they got blown out again. And the coach comes out and says "no adjustments needed we just gottah play like we did when we weh winning, we gottah skate hadah and win puck battles".

It's indefensible. Blaming the the entirety of these losses on the players is bullshit. If it's all the players' faults then Verbeek should be fired for constructing a roster of players that are so mentally weak that they cannot be coached to play competitive hockey consistently. Something has to give. The results of these past two games, especially last night failing to put one puck past one of the worst goalies in the league, is inexcusable.

And we've gone through this argument with each of the three shitty coaches we've gone through lately. The last two don't have jobs in the NHL currently. At best Cronin should be an assistant working on defensive systems and I'd argue he's not really qualified for that job either. Not in this league anyway.

 

[robbieboy3686]

Honestly, it starts with the admission that he spent 20 games last year not coaching and just observing to see what the players would do if they essentially were left to their own devices so he could "learn what these players need"

Tack on all the "I don't knows", tack on Vaakanainen's insight into what was going on in the locker room last year, tack on Killorn and Terry publicly admitting that this team has no cohesion because they don't know where their linemates are going to be, tack on Cronin's admission last night that there's no adjustments needed to the offensive system they just need to win more puck battles and shoot the puck more (I mean the balls to say that when we've spent the entire season dead last or within one game's worth of goals to dead last in goal scoring), tack on that more of our kids are stagnating or really struggling than not in a development year, tack on that our highest draft pick since Bobby Ryan continues to be stapled to a guy he has had no chemistry with the entire time he's been here, and I just don't know how people can still defend this guy and blame the players.

Yes of course the players need to be better but winning puck battles comes from proper conditioning in the weight room and drilling in practice. Effective offensive systems comes from chemistry, x's and o's strategies, and effective drilling in practice. And motivation to work hard comes from the culture in the locker room. Maybe this group of guys have a loser's mentality. Maybe our leadership is lacking. But the coaching staff are motivators too and they're not motivating enough.

Yes that run where we beat some good teams established that this team can perform at a higher level. It's the coach's job to get the team to execute that consistently.

After the loss to St. Louis (because you can argue that at least against Calgary the team still had some fight if not finish), which was an embarrassingly bad performance between effort, systems, and execution, it became our coaching staff's job to get this team to get back to at least having that fight and the execution of basic plays to be competitive even in a loss. Instead they followed a bad performance with a worse one and they got blown out again. And the coach comes out and says "no adjustments needed we just gottah play like we did when we weh winning, we gottah skate hadah and win puck battles".

It's indefensible. Blaming the the entirety of these losses on the players is bullshit. If it's all the players' faults then Verbeek should be fired for constructing a roster of players that are so mentally weak that they cannot be coached to play competitive hockey consistently. Something has to give. The results of these past two games, especially last night failing to put one puck past one of the worst goalies in the league, is inexcusable.

And we've gone through this argument with each of the three shitty coaches we've gone through lately. The last two don't have jobs in the NHL currently. At best Cronin should be an assistant working on defensive systems and I'd argue he's not really qualified for that job either. Not in this league anyway.

I 100% am not on board with calling Carlyle a bad coach. Apart from his Stanley cup, he took us to the western conference finals in 2017 and that lineup wasn’t great at all, can also argue if eaves had been healthy he could’ve pushed us over the top that series+ anyone other than bernier in net in game 6

 

[HanSolo]

I 100% am not on board with calling Carlyle a bad coach. Apart from his Stanley cup, he took us to the western conference finals in 2017 and that lineup wasn’t great at all, can also argue if eaves had been healthy he could’ve pushed us over the top that series+ anyone other than bernier in net in game 6

He wasn't a good coach when he got fired the second time. He was a good coach in the time he had success. 2017-2018 was when the NHL started changing to what it is today. He didn't change with it. Simple as.

 

[Doothpick]

So the one coach I would've been comfortable hiring immediately to replace Cronin was Todd McLellan. After his takeover in the Wings bench they lost his 1st game.. and they're now about to win their sixth straight. So that's neat.

Also in my academic paper called "tales of never-ending bitterness" I make a case Detroit hasn't suffered enough yet, nor will have they ever. At least until we get to playoffs as well, so stay out of the playoffs Mr Koala Bear.

 

[Daz28]

When a team is on the razors edge of being bad/not bad, a key player or two out can make ALL the difference. Dahlin was out, and immediately the Sabres were the worst team in the league again. That said, I'm back to completely deflated. There's still to many areas where we're bottom of the league. With Terry, Zegs and OZ back in, we'll likely do better, but at worst, all the asst coaches besides Thompson should be axed. Not sure about head coach yet. He's controlling the general structure, and it's miles above Eakins for now(at least by eye test).

 

[HanSolo]

When a team is on the razors edge of being bad/not bad, a key player or two out can make ALL the difference. Dahlin was out, and immediately the Sabres were the worst team in the league again. That said, I'm back to completely deflated. There's still to many areas where we're bottom of the league. With Terry, Zegs and OZ back in, we'll likely do better, but at worst, all the asst coaches besides Thompson should be axed. Not sure about head coach yet. He's controlling the general structure, and it's miles above Eakins for now(at least by eye test).

I mean if we're talking offensive structure, the I guess you can call the difference between mediocre dump and chase with little chasing miles better than "just go do your thing"

 

[70sSanO]

The problem I see, and have seen for a long time even before Cronin, is when the Ducks are pressured they don’t know what to do.

If nothing else, the coaching staff must change the inability to move the puck and get out of trouble.

If they have worked on this and the players can’t mentality understand it, then we are all wasting our time.

John

 

[Daz28]

I mean if we're talking offensive structure, the I guess you can call the difference between mediocre dump and chase with little chasing miles better than "just go do your thing"

Having any semblance of forecheck, and not a complete clusterf of a D zone comedy is what I'm talking about. At worst, we're heading in the right direction, and won't be needing to hand a complete mess over to the next guy(s), which also influences their decision to come here.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

damnit wrong thread!

 

[MMC]

After getting embarrassed by a crap team last night less than 24 hours later the boys are locked in and get a big win on the road against a top 10 team in the league.

Thank you Greg Cronin

 

[Firequacker]

After getting embarrassed by a crap team last night less than 24 hours later the boys are locked in and get a big win on the road against a top 10 team in the league.

Thank you Greg Cronin

"The boys" is a weird way to spell "Dostal"

 

[ScarTroy]

After getting embarrassed by a crap team last night less than 24 hours later the boys are locked in and get a big win on the road against a top 10 team in the league.

Thank you Greg Cronin

Since we’re connecting unrelated things, I had a delicious bean and cheese burrito tonight, thanks Greg Cronin!

 

[MMC]

Since we’re connecting unrelated things, I had a delicious bean and cheese burrito tonight, thanks Greg Cronin!

So if they lose it’s all his fault and if they win it has nothing to do with him?

 

[ScarTroy]

So if they lose it’s all his fault and if they win it has nothing to do with him?

You think this win has anything to do with him other than him being the head coach? And for the record, no, I’ve never said losses are on him and wins aren’t. I think the past losses were just as much on him as this win was, which was pretty little. I was being facetious, just like you know you were with that comment.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

So if they lose it’s all his fault and if they win it has nothing to do with him?

Don't know why you started off making a point with this game and then expanded it to the whole season. Pretty cheap way to moving the goal post.

As for tonight, I give full credit to Dostal while. We looked good in the first period, but relied heavily on Dostal for the rest of the game. Here's proof.

 

[The Midnight Burrito]

So if they lose it’s all his fault and if they win it has nothing to do with him?

Making up shit to be mad about. Someone’s in a mood.

 

[dracom]

After getting embarrassed by a crap team last night less than 24 hours later the boys are locked in and get a big win on the road against a top 10 team in the league.

Thank you Greg Cronin

than you cronin for still coaching the team to be awful and getting bailed out by a GI challenge going our way, dostal being elite, and the canes goalie being bad? it's crazy how much praise you wanna give a coach who is doing an awful job

 

[70sSanO]

I agree with Cronin that percentages will pan out. But the problem with Cronin are not the results. The problem are the questions.

When you coach using a Magic 8 Ball, you have to know that there are 10 affirming answers, 5 negative answers, and 5 non- committal.

Cronin needs to ask the right questions for the Ducks to be successful.

Obviously when he asks, “Should I play Gauthier in OT?” he is more likely to get a positive outcome.

John

 

[70sSanO]

So if they lose it’s all his fault and if they win it has nothing to do with him?

John McKissick.

John

 

[MMC]

Making up shit to be mad about. Someone’s in a mood.

This thread is always popping after losses and never gets any posts after wins

 

[Rasp]

At this stage of the rebuild individual wins and losses mean nothing in the big picture. The development of the youth, cohesive game plan and the ability to motivate are what really matters

Right now Cronin is failing as a coach

 

[JAHV]

They got outshot 37-20. Unless Cronin is the goalie coach, he didn't have much to do with the win.

 

[HanSolo]

At this stage of the rebuild individual wins and losses mean nothing in the big picture. The development of the youth, cohesive game plan and the ability to motivate are what really matters

Right now Cronin is failing as a coach

This. I mean, I've done the analysis before but Lacombe has developed very positively under Cronin. Dostal has developed well but Cronin has nothing to do with that other than requiring him to steal games. Gauthier has improved from where he was at at the start of the year, but that's just cleaning up the dumb shit and playing to his pre-existing strengths. Past those three you've got Zellweger playing better than at the start of the year but not a whole lot better than his debut. Mac is struggling to produce and create chances. Same for Leo only it keeps getting worse. Helleson surprised but his development in a small sample hasn't really changed since his first game on the call up. Mintyukov had a really impressive first 10 or so games last year and since then has looked mostly timid and disengaged with a few nice flashes. Zegras, before his injury, looked great to the extent that he was playing a much more complete game but in the process he lost his fire, creativity, flair, and risktaking that allowed him to be productive in the past. And he's already reached the age where he's more or less entered his prime years. Colangelo hasn't been here long enough and Lundestrom is basically not a "youth" anymore at his age.

So that's a lot more stagnating or badly struggling going on from a head coach of a developing team in a development year than successes you can credit him for. He can basically tip his cap over Lacombe and Gauthier. That's it. That's a problem and I've said it repeatedly, development time is finite. Eventually this team is going to start cycling failed projects out on change of scenery moves when guys don't develop as hoped/expected. If for no other reason, the Ducks should cycle Cronin out first to try to salvage what they can out of this first stab at a youth core or risk prolonging the rebuild another 5-6 years.

That, as you said, is so much more important than game to game results. Those 5 or so wins on that good run were enjoyable for us as fans but they came on the back of veterans and our goalies stepping up. Outside of Lacombe, there hasn't been much to write home about with the kids.