Speculation: 2024-25 Coaching/Management/Ownership

[FiveHoleTickler]

What worries me is the motivation. Why would they care about the ducks? Do they have friends in our locker room feeding them information to make them want to do this?

It's not like there is a ton of meat on the bone for Anaheim ducks controversy, nobody cares about us.

Yandle admitted in the second interview even he didn't know why he brought it up in the first place.

As I said, nothingburger.

 

[Mr Rogers]

I think now that he's denied it, it gets a little more complex. He shouldn't get fired for yelling at someone 20 years ago, no... but he was seemingly brought in more for off-ice development and culture than on-ice results and that is presumably what Verbeek has been pleased with so far (I mean, think we all hope it's not the on-ice results he's satisfied with).

If it were to come out somehow that Cronin is actually lying, rather than this just being a case of faulty memories, now there's a really public example of the accountability coach not following his own example. I could see that getting him fired more so than the original incident.

I agree. I’m curious if Yandle will come out and push back. Because right now the ball is in his court, Cronin essentially called him a liar on this. Cro doesn’t get my benefit of the doubt but Yandles silence would say something so we’ll see.

Cronin shouldn’t be let go over this, although it does say something about his character. And even if it was his recruiter and not him, still doesn’t reflect too well on him.

 

[CrazyDuck4u]

I agree. I’m curious if Yandle will come out and push back. Because right now the ball is in his court, Cronin essentially called him a liar on this. Cro doesn’t get my benefit of the doubt but Yandles silence would say something so we’ll see.

Cronin shouldn’t be let go over this, although it does say something about his character. And even if it was his recruiter and not him, still doesn’t reflect too well on him.

This.. We wait now

 

[Rybread86]

What worries me is the motivation. Why would they care about the ducks? Do they have friends in our locker room feeding them information to make them want to do this?

It's not like there is a ton of meat on the bone for Anaheim ducks controversy, nobody cares about us.

If they did, I would expect more up to date info. I still havent heard anything saying "This year", the most recent seems to be last season and then this "yelling incident".

I could care less if a coach yelled at a college kid 20 years ago. Hell, I could care less if a coach yelled at a college kid yesterday. People get yelled at, oh well.

The only things I care about is if in this situation the coach is making a mess of the locker room, if hes not learning from past mistakes, if players are checking out on him because of his personality. He should be fired for his results on ice, not for allegedly yelling at a kid 20 years ago.

 

[ducknuts]

Yandle admitted in the second interview even he didn't know why he brought it up in the first place.

As I said, nothingburger.

I agree that this incident isn’t a big deal for Cronin, but the Ducks really don’t like bad publicity. Henry and Susan definitely noticed.

 

[ducknuts]

What worries me is the motivation. Why would they care about the ducks? Do they have friends in our locker room feeding them information to make them want to do this?

It's not like there is a ton of meat on the bone for Anaheim ducks controversy, nobody cares about us.

I’d be shocked if current and former players haven’t spoken with Whit and Biz. That doesn’t bother me if you hate the coach and think he’s not the right person to lead the team.

 

[70sSanO]

Yandle admitted in the second interview even he didn't know why he brought it up in the first place.

As I said, nothingburger.

Now where have I heard “I don’t know” before?

John

 

[anezthes]

Even this "controversy" is boring.

 

[70sSanO]

Even this "controversy" is boring.

Kind of like dumping a story and chasing it down.

John

 

[Kalv]

Cronin doesnt know what happens on the ice, now he also doesnt know who Keith Yandle is or what happened earlier in his career. Someone should check if he knows his own name

I trust SC tho. They are serious with this stuff, they were the first ones on Babcock for example.

Sure it was a long time ago. But this is just another thing added to the ones that worry me about Cronin/Pat

 

[Rybread86]

Cronin doesnt know what happens on the ice, now he also doesnt know who Keith Yandle is or what happened earlier in his career. Someone should check if he knows his own name

I trust SC tho. They are serious with this stuff, they were the first ones on Babcock for example.

Sure it was a long time ago. But this is just another thing added to the ones that worry me about Cronin/Pat

Im not saying SC is making this stuff up, but their info seems to be outdated as far as the current situation, or at least they havent provided any recent events. They were on top of the Babcock thing and for good reason.

My question to you is, why would the Yandle situation even matter? Why does anyone actually care about a coach yelling at a college kid? And why of all things would anyone care about a college coach yelling at a kid 20 years ago? Yandles mommy stepped in and protected her baby from whoever was raising their voice on the phone or in person, or whatever the story now is.

 

[HanSolo]

I couldn't really care less if this story is true or not. At most it goes to Cronin's mindset 20 years ago.

What does concern me is none of the kids, with Cro as development coach, (save for Zellweger and Lacombe) are really showing any meaningful progress and the vets around them are playing below their ability.

 

[Kalv]

Im not saying SC is making this stuff up, but their info seems to be outdated as far as the current situation, or at least they havent provided any recent events. They were on top of the Babcock thing and for good reason.

My question to you is, why would the Yandle situation even matter? Why does anyone actually care about a coach yelling at a college kid? And why of all things would anyone care about a college coach yelling at a kid 20 years ago? Yandles mommy stepped in and protected her baby from whoever was raising their voice on the phone or in person, or whatever the story now is.

I would care because it's an element in a persons character that no leader should have. Yelling at a teenager after he made a decision is ridiculous. Sure, different times and all that. But I'd also look at current situation ans the long list of Cronins character traits, the Lyb situation, etc, to draw a conclusion that he has a lot of bad thing going on under him.

 

[Rybread86]

I couldn't really care less if this story is true or not. At most it goes to Cronin's mindset 20 years ago.

What does concern me is none of the kids, with Cro as development coach, (save for Zellweger and Lacombe) are really showing any meaningful progress and the vets around them are playing below their ability.

This really is the only thing that matters. Majority of us want Crones out but this Yandle story is just boarderline slander. If SC has any pertinent and recent info, Id love to hear it, but I dont care about how Crones handled himself 20 years ago or even last year if the outcome of the year end meetings was Beeker telling Crones he needed to work on stuff. Did he change? Is the locker room better or worse than last season?

 

[Rybread86]

I would care because it's an element in a persons character that no leader should have. Yelling at a teenager after he made a decision is ridiculous. Sure, different times and all that. But I'd also look at current situation ans the long list of Cronins character traits, the Lyb situation, etc, to draw a conclusion that he has a lot of bad thing going on under him.

Yeah, that might be a personal belief of yours but not one that will be agreed upon. it was a man yelling, so what? Grow up, taking your lashing and move on. You think Bobby Knight was a saint who never yelled at a kid? This is the most ridiculous part of this story, people mad at a coach for yelling at a player. Holy crap.

And again, Beeker spoke to Cones about how he interacts with the players int he exit interviews. The Boosh stuff happened prior to that. So I come back to, has anything changed since the summer? Thats really the only thing that matters.

 

[Frosted Tips]

I just wished all this talk and attention would be more focused on the performance or results, or the lack thereof, rather than Cro yelling at Yandle two decades ago. But who knows, maybe we'll get there eventually.

 

[robbieboy3686]

This is all fuel to the fire as far as Cronin not having any chance to be our coach next season. So in that sense, I’m glad yandle felt like story telling.

 

[JAHV]

Yeah, that might be a personal belief of yours but not one that will be agreed upon. it was a man yelling, so what? Grow up, taking your lashing and move on. You think Bobby Knight was a saint who never yelled at a kid? This is the most ridiculous part of this story, people mad at a coach for yelling at a player. Holy crap.

And again, Beeker spoke to Cones about how he interacts with the players int he exit interviews. The Boosh stuff happened prior to that. So I come back to, has anything changed since the summer? Thats really the only thing that matters.

I don't want to get too far into the weeds on this, but a grown man yelling at a kid in the type of way that Cronin is described as doing is problematic at best. It speaks to someone who doesn't know how to communicate effectively. If you're citing Bobby Knight as a point in your favor, that's not good. That man was a borderline psychopath, and that environment is not healthy for kids or young adults. There are power dynamics involved in an interaction like that which create fear and anxiety and doubt.

I'm not saying that coaches should never yell, but they should never berate a kid with the kind of language and message Yandle says Cronin used, especially in that context. It's one thing to yell at your own players with whom you've built up a rapport and can speak with them in a constructive way outside of the yelling incident. That doesn't necessarily make it an effective communication method, but at least its negative effects can be mitigated. It's a totally different thing to yell at a young man with whom you'll never have another interaction, essentially telling him that you, as an authority figure who is judging his worth as an athlete, think he's a bum and are going to personally try to ruin his opportunities elsewhere.

The whole idea that coaches yelling at kids all the time is ok because that's how it was when we grew up is not accepted any more.

 

[JAHV]

And just to be clear, as this incident (if true) relates to Cronin as the current Ducks coach, it shouldn't be an automatic disqualifier. It's not a great look for sure. It certainly doesn't make me feel good about him being the leader of my favorite hockey team. But it was 20 years ago. It's very possible that he's grown and matured since then and no longer treats players that way. There is plenty of rumor that he's still hard to play for, but you can be firm and gruff and hold players accountable in ways they don't like while also not delving into personal attacks and vowing retribution.

Ultimately, though, this is one more piece of evidence that he's probably not the type or quality of coach this team needs. It's not strong evidence, but it's part of the growing pile.

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

A one off from 20 years ago doesn't bother me.

But it's interesting that once Bob was fired via an anonymous tip line, all of a sudden we heard what an ass he was and how his reason for being fired was routine behavior for him. You will never convince me that management didn't know what an ass Bob was long before they finally fired him. But he only got fired when they couldn't ignore it anymore due to the league's policies and tip lines.

So the real question is are we dealing with a similar person here or totally not? I don't know.

 

[Rybread86]

I don't want to get too far into the weeds on this, but a grown man yelling at a kid in the type of way that Cronin is described as doing is problematic at best. It speaks to someone who doesn't know how to communicate effectively. If you're citing Bobby Knight as a point in your favor, that's not good. That man was a borderline psychopath, and that environment is not healthy for kids or young adults. There are power dynamics involved in an interaction like that which create fear and anxiety and doubt.

I'm not saying that coaches should never yell, but they should never berate a kid with the kind of language and message Yandle says Cronin used, especially in that context. It's one thing to yell at your own players with whom you've built up a rapport and can speak with them in a constructive way outside of the yelling incident. That doesn't necessarily make it an effective communication method, but at least its negative effects can be mitigated. It's a totally different thing to yell at a young man with whom you'll never have another interaction, essentially telling him that you, as an authority figure who is judging his worth as an athlete, think he's a bum and are going to personally try to ruin his opportunities elsewhere.

The whole idea that coaches yelling at kids all the time is ok because that's how it was when we grew up is not accepted any more.

Few things.

1) I am by no means saying yelling is good coaching or good leadership. Simply saying it did and does happen. Just because a coach tears into a guy doesnt mean hes a bad coach or leader. Bobby was one of the best collegiate coaches, but you are right in that for that to work, you have to have rapport with your players.

2) 20 years ago has little to nothing to do with today. People grow and evolve over time.

3) I wouldnt say coaches yelling at kids "all the time" is ok. That would be problematic if thats all the coach did.

4) This is real life, kids need to learn to have a backbone. I didnt take Yandles story as saying it broke him or anything but thats kind of the point. People are going to get told no, they are going to be reprimanded, they are going to be yelled at. They need to learn to deal with that stuff instead of making it a big deal, and in this case, starting rumors/drama from incidents that dont matter.

I dont mind the gruff and blunt attitudes, verbal altercations happen and its how the individual deals with that stuff. Even if this was all true and Cronin did this 20 years ago, it has nothing to do with today. We have no idea how often it happened, who it happened with, if he or whoever this was got counseling for anger issues or anything else. its an overblown story that people want to put more into than there needs to be.

Again, if this is still happening to this day and its causing locker room problems, thats what matters. As you eluded to as well, being gruff and hard on players isnt inherently bad, but context matters; results matter. Thats what should be the center of attention here, the team results. They havent been good. Ring him up for that. Or at least give us relevant and timely info on whats going on today.

 

[Mr Rogers]

Didn't it come down to Cronin berating him on the phone because he didn't want to play there. If that's truly what happened, that isn't acceptable in any situation. Completely unprofessional and mean.

I feel like the best and most common defenses of Cronin now are "we don't know this or that," or 'we have no idea what goes on behind closed doors'. Of course we don't, but the rhetoric that speaks to his character and temperament is piling up.

 

[TheDarkWingThatDucks]

I couldn't really care less if this story is true or not. At most it goes to Cronin's mindset 20 years ago.

What does concern me is none of the kids, with Cro as development coach, (save for Zellweger and Lacombe) are really showing any meaningful progress and the vets around them are playing below their ability.

I mean Leo is outpacing Barkov and Jack Hughes who were both sub .5 ppg pace in their 18 and 19 year old seasons.

McT took a nice step last year and showed he can play at least 1/4 of the season at a PPG pace. He’s taken a step back this year, but not drastically, if he rips off another PPG streak for 20 games like he did last year he’ll be outpacing his season last year. Big if…. I know, but what if he rips off like a 35 game stretch, wouldn’t that be growth, or last year 20 game stretch might have been a fluke.

Minty is struggling but being given a bigger responsibility defensively, and is kinda outmatched. It’s on him (and the coaching staff to help) to make the proper adjustments and become a legit top pair defensemen.

Cutter is a rookie adjusting to the league, looks lost at times, looks great rarely, invisible at times. But talent is there, hopefully unlike most rookies his years of college play, don’t let him run into a rookie wall, hopefully things start to click a little bit and he starts scoring more for us. All and all this year can’t really judge Cronin and Co, it’s just a get your feet wet in the league for him.

Zegras stats have fallen off a cliff, but he still looks dynamic and I’d argue it’s Cronin’s system that is holding back his points, but I’d also argue he’s been held to a standard that his overall game as improved so much, that when we are ready to take that next step as an org, he will be a star.

Its fairly obvious to every single person who watches the ducks that Cronin’s system doesn’t suit our personnel.

I think humans in general (and especially as a fan base) find it extremely difficult to not get instant gratification. Social media / this forum / etc….. We also as humans, and I’m in sales, but no one understands each other jobs in the office play. All these little serfdoms take place. Accounting vs sales vs mgmt vs shipping and receiving ….. and everyone is always like what do they even do here ? I’m busy why do I have to do extra work. But I don’t know what my accounting team is doing all day, and they don’t know what I am. In that same vein, I’m willing to allow for a little bit of faith that our hockey minds who helped pick Verbeek / plus Verbeek and YZ’s track record shows they at least have an idea of how to properly rebuild a franchise. Now that being said, this is a job that has sooooooo much room for human error and every single level, that even having a proven recipe doesn’t = success.

Every Colorado fan said when we hired Cronin, great developmental coach, their AHL players were ready for the NHL when called up etc etc etc. now does that equate to developing top 10 talent ? No. But I have to imagine, Verbeek and him have an idea of what they want…. Which is to instill a hard work ethic on and off the ice. Which I’d say is the foundation of what we want as an organization. Remember we were a ship without a rudder during Getz last few seasons. We were trying to win, paying people who had to LTIR/ buyout / medical retired (for real not to game the system) but just not a good team anymore. The new age NHL had passed us by and lapped us.

Verbeek comes in and wants his fingerprints on this org. He has said I want to be a big, fast skilled competitive team to play against. Blah blah blah. I am on board with this, because it sounds like he wants to be the Big Bag Ducks of the new modern age. The Florida panthers are on the opposite coast dominating the league playing this way.

All this is a long winded way of saying, Cronin is not the captain leading us to the promised land, he is merely the dude making sure the ship is ready to survive out at sea (why the f*** am I doing so many sea metaphors, did I just listen to or read Moby Dick), he’s the bottom square of your Lincoln logs, a means to an end.

The problem with the system is it doesn’t lend itself to tangible results, just trust the process, knowing Cronin will be gone when his job is over, the next man up will be the guy to hopefully take us to that next level and try to have a little patience, and sadly some blind faith (great supergroup).

 

[JAHV]

Few things.

1) I am by no means saying yelling is good coaching or good leadership. Simply saying it did and does happen. Just because a coach tears into a guy doesnt mean hes a bad coach or leader. Bobby was one of the best collegiate coaches, but you are right in that for that to work, you have to have rapport with your players.

2) 20 years ago has little to nothing to do with today. People grow and evolve over time.

3) I wouldnt say coaches yelling at kids "all the time" is ok. That would be problematic if thats all the coach did.

4) This is real life, kids need to learn to have a backbone. I didnt take Yandles story as saying it broke him or anything but thats kind of the point. People are going to get told no, they are going to be reprimanded, they are going to be yelled at. They need to learn to deal with that stuff instead of making it a big deal, and in this case, starting rumors/drama from incidents that dont matter.

I dont mind the gruff and blunt attitudes, verbal altercations happen and its how the individual deals with that stuff. Even if this was all true and Cronin did this 20 years ago, it has nothing to do with today. We have no idea how often it happened, who it happened with, if he or whoever this was got counseling for anger issues or anything else. its an overblown story that people want to put more into than there needs to be.

Again, if this is still happening to this day and its causing locker room problems, thats what matters. As you eluded to as well, being gruff and hard on players isnt inherently bad, but context matters; results matter. Thats what should be the center of attention here, the team results. They havent been good. Ring him up for that. Or at least give us relevant and timely info on whats going on today.

Just a couple of thoughts on your response, which I appreciate. I don't want to go round and round on this because I know this line of discussion has that potential.

I think coaches, especially ones who deal with kids and young adults, have a ton of power. They have power to do good - to mold and shape kids' lives, to give them confidence, to teach them accountability and perseverance and work ethic. They also have the capacity to do a lot of harm - breaking kids' spirits, using their position to force the kid into uncomfortable or harmful situations, destroying a player's self-worth and self esteem.

That power dynamic needs to be treated with a ton of respect, and I find it pretty reprehensible for someone in Cronin's position to tear into a teenager the way he allegedly did. All coaches, even the best intentioned, make mistakes, but that's not just a "I was frustrated and yelled more than I wanted to" incident. That was vindictive and hurtful and nasty. Yes, it was 20 years ago, but there is some relevance just in the sense that Cronin is (allegedly) a guy who once thought acting like that to a teenager is ok. Hopefully he no longer does (again, if true).

For the record, I don't think there are any coaches who yell at kids literally "all the time." That's not what I meant. I meant it in the sense that it's no longer tolerated as a coach to utilize screaming and yelling and insults routinely as a form of communication. It's not effective. It's great that Yandle got over it, but that's not evidence that it's good, just that Yandle is resilient. There are more effective and less potentially harmful methods of communicating reprimands and accountability.

Again I appreciate your thoughtful response. As I have stated on the board before, I've been a coach myself for a while. I've made plenty of mistakes in my 13 years of doing it and have come a long way, so I recognize that grace is important. I hope Cronin has progressed as well.

 

[TopShelfWaterBottle]

Maybe the players have been in contact with the SC guys and this is a way of a silent coup?

Might just be me to involved in military pertinence