Speculation: 2024-25 Coaching/Management/Ownership

[Dr Johnny Fever]

Could you expand with this?

Not in any detail. Only in that Bob made a lot of emotional decisions including ones people never saw and not always well thought out. It was in the context of how much do the Ducks spend/invest in off ice things that help the team get better. Skating coaches, fitness coaches, fitness equipment, etc.

It was a small part of a larger conversation.

 

[All Mighty]

Not in any detail. Only in that Bob made a lot of emotional decisions including ones people never saw and not always well thought out. It was in the context of how much do the Ducks spend/invest in off ice things that help the team get better. Skating coaches, fitness coaches, fitness equipment, etc.

It was a small part of a larger conversation.

I’ve also had a conversation with someone in the organization who said similar things. They said that Murray was essentially forced to start an analytics department, but he never paid any attention to it. They did say that Madden actually utilized the department to help with the draft (don’t know in what context).

It honestly sounded like Verbeek (and the rest of hockey ops) had to bring the organization into the 21st century after he was hired. I would be super interested to hear Verbeek’s honest thoughts on what the organization’s resources were like when he first got here compared to Detroit and Tampa.

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

I’ve also had a conversation with someone in the organization who said similar things. They said that Murray was essentially forced to start an analytics department, but he never paid any attention to it. They did say that Madden actually utilized the department to help with the draft (don’t know in what context).

It honestly sounded like Verbeek (and the rest of hockey ops) had to bring the organization into the 21st century after he was hired. I would be super interested to hear Verbeek’s honest thoughts on what the organization’s resources were like when he first got here compared to Detroit and Tampa.

That shouldn't be too surprising to most I would think. It does make you wonder what could have been with someone more open minded.

It also does make one wonder just how far ownership was willing to let Bob continue on until their hand was finally forced.

 

[ZegrassyKnoll]

I had an interesting conversation the other day with someone well connected to the team. Seems Bob's demons impacted the team behind the scenes in many ways the public will never know about. And not in a good way.

Working under competent, respectful management can be a headache sometimes. I have no doubt that everyone was walking on eggshells at points, and that's a terrible way to spend 40 hours a week.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

I’ve also had a conversation with someone in the organization who said similar things. They said that Murray was essentially forced to start an analytics department, but he never paid any attention to it. They did say that Madden actually utilized the department to help with the draft (don’t know in what context).

It honestly sounded like Verbeek (and the rest of hockey ops) had to bring the organization into the 21st century after he was hired. I would be super interested to hear Verbeek’s honest thoughts on what the organization’s resources were like when he first got here compared to Detroit and Tampa.

Bob admitted that he had an analytics dept, but was lost about it. Then he hired Jeff Solomon away from the Kings to head the analytics b/c Jeff could interpret what the fancy stats mean to a lay person. Verbeek added to the analytics as well as added more physicians in Anaheim and San Diego. As for skating coaches, I dunno if we had a dedicated one back then, but I do know we had Barb Underhill on speed dial in some capacity.

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

According to my source we do have skating coaches of Barb's caliber available at all times and money is not an object there.

 

[ducknuts]

I wish this thread allowed rumors or insider info without getting vetted by a mod. Oh, the things I’ve heard about Greg Cronin…

 

[Ducks DVM]

On that note…

8) Claims of Insider Information/ Rumors & Hearsay: If you're an insider, contact us with proof BEFORE you post. These posts will be allowed/rejected at the discretion of administrators after consulting with other posters, moderators, and relevant sources. Deference will be given to veteran members who have established credibility. It's not acceptable to post that you heard someone has a drinking/drug/sex/personal problem from a "good" source. Do not post information that can be considered defamatory without a link to a credible media source. Other forums, personal websites, amateur/unvetted blogs, hearsay, and personal testimonials are not considered credible.

Let’s continue avoiding the libel please

 

[KaseMeOutside]

I would bet money that Pat will make a shake up trade before he fires Cronin

On brand, trading guys as their value goes down. I still can't believe he didn't move Vatrano last year when he will never have a season like that again

I wish this thread allowed rumors or insider info without getting vetted by a mod. Oh, the things I’ve heard about Greg Cronin…

Group chat

 

[Smirnov2Chistov]

I had an interesting conversation the other day with someone well connected to the team. Seems Bob's demons impacted the team behind the scenes in many ways the public will never know about. And not in a good way.

Damn, that sucks with Murray.

It’s weird, I guess over time my opinion will change about him. I still hold him very highly in most aspects. Sure, he was addicted to retooling rather than fully rebuilding, but we had a competitive roster for the most part. Although he has no cups for it, we were highly successful.

Although Burke won a cup, I felt like his time here ended abruptly. I didn’t like his scouting/drafting choices, was he - or was he not too trigger happy when it came to deals? (Andy McDonald?)

I wish this thread allowed rumors or insider info without getting vetted by a mod. Oh, the things I’ve heard about Greg Cronin…

Now THIS I must know..

I’ve also had a conversation with someone in the organization who said similar things. They said that Murray was essentially forced to start an analytics department, but he never paid any attention to it. They did say that Madden actually utilized the department to help with the draft (don’t know in what context).

I mean.. I’m not into analytics as most people are. I think there are way too many variables involved that make it more complicated than it needs to be.

 

[Anaheim4ever]

Remember when Martin Madden revealed that the Ducks haven't always picked the guy him and his staff chose ? That means Murray overrided the scouts once or several times. He said something as well that they've always hit on high picks when its 'their guy'. You have to kind of wonder how the scouts were treated under Murray.

Like for example what if ur a scout and you are told to find a Dman because they are set on picking one in 2020 whether or not a Forward is the BPA, Murray once revealed they were set on picking a Dman in 2020 before the season was even over as though it didn't matter if they were drafting #2 or #10 they were gonna pick the best Dman available.

Drysdale is failing partly cause of injuries but his hockey IQ seems to not be a strength of his and knowing what we know about the kind of players Verbeek likes he wouldn't have picked a guy with mid to low hockey IQ at #6.

 

[shach1]

 

[All Mighty]

Glad he mentioned Gauthier. I thought he had some great moments.

 

[AngelDuck]

The ducks were terrible for a 12 game stretch but have been a lot better the last 6 games

I still don’t have a lot of faith in Cronin but hopefully this is the sign of a turnaround

 

[Hey234]

Not sure if anyone else listened to Clune's interview with Alexis Downie. Nothing much to share about the team. Seems like a nice guy. Comes across young and fresh. His major focus is individualizing learning and clear/simple communication. Feels like he's still learning the ropes in some aspects.

 

[190Octane]

In the last 8 games they’re 5-2-1 and 2 of those 3 losses they gave up 2 goals in quick succession to give up the lead.

The team is 4 points out of a playoff spot and a lot of the teams above them have games in hand.

If I told you this is where they’d be 21 games into the season before the year started, would you have been calling for Cronin’s head?

Edit: this has also been playing with 4 1st or 2nd year d-men during a lot of that 8 game stretch.

 

[Ducks DVM]

In the last 8 games they’re 5-2-1 and 2 of those 3 losses they gave up 2 goals in quick succession to give up the lead.

The team is 4 points out of a playoff spot and a lot of the teams above them have games in hand.

If I told you this is where they’d be 21 games into the season before the year started, would you have been calling for Cronin’s head?

Edit: this has also been playing with 4 1st or 2nd year d-men during a lot of that 8 game stretch.

Ignoring that we are riding hot goalies and that all the criticisms of the Eakins team pre-Verbeeking equally apply now, the real question is why didn’t he use the current system tweaks MUCH sooner when it was clear to anyone with eyes that he needed an entirely different roster to play his “dump and chase or die” system? The improved play is fantastic, but I don’t have faith that he will quickly or appropriately pivot when opposing coaches compensate for the current 5v5/PK systems and they start to work less well.

He’s out of the “tar and feathers now, please” category, but he is absolutely still in the “prove it” category he started the season with for me.

 

[190Octane]

Ignoring that we are riding hot goalies and that all the criticisms of the Eakins team pre-Verbeeking equally apply now, the real question is why didn’t he use the current system tweaks MUCH sooner when it was clear to anyone with eyes that he needed an entirely different roster to play his “dump and chase or die” system? The improved play is fantastic, but I don’t have faith that he will quickly or appropriately pivot when opposing coaches compensate for the current 5v5/PK systems and they start to work less well.

He’s out of the “tar and feathers now, please” category, but he is absolutely still in the “prove it” category he started the season with for me.

I don’t think it’s crazy to give it 15 games or so to see if younger players adjust to the system you’re trying to play.

I’m more of a glass half full type person so when I see someone realizing something isn’t working and then make a huge adjustment I’m going to give them credit.

 

[Ducks DVM]

I don’t think it’s crazy to give it 15 games or so to see if younger players adjust to the system you’re trying to play.

I’m more of a glass half full type person so when I see someone realizing something isn’t working and then make a huge adjustment I’m going to give them credit.

I agree 100%. The issue for me was that we already knew from last year it wouldn’t work, and it was clear to anyone with eyes by Game 2 this year that the roster as constructed was completely inappropriate for what he was insisting they do. It took him closer to 6 weeks.

 

[The Midnight Burrito]

The ducks were terrible for a 12 game stretch but have been a lot better the last 6 games

I still don’t have a lot of faith in Cronin but hopefully this is the sign of a turnaround

There’s definitely a demarcation before and after that point in terms of how aggressively they go after the puck when they don’t have it. Offense is still pretty anemic and we’re still hemmed in way too often but it’s at a level where the goalies can handle it.

The last 3 games we’ve choked away 2-0 leads but still managed to be .500. It’s a start.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

In the last 8 games they’re 5-2-1 and 2 of those 3 losses they gave up 2 goals in quick succession to give up the lead.

The team is 4 points out of a playoff spot and a lot of the teams above them have games in hand.

If I told you this is where they’d be 21 games into the season before the year started, would you have been calling for Cronin’s head?

Edit: this has also been playing with 4 1st or 2nd year d-men during a lot of that 8 game stretch.

We weren't calling for Cronin's head at the start of last season either, especially after that 6-game winning streak.

• Last year after 20 games: 9-11-0 (18 pts)
• This year after 20 games: 8-9-3 (19 pts)

• Also, after 21 games last year, the Ducks were only 3 points out of a playoff spot.
• Last year, Anaheim was playing with 4 first time rookies in the NHL: C Carlsson, LD Minty, LD LaCombe, and RD Luneau.
• Last year, Anaheim was playing Mac in his second year in the NHL.
• Last year, it was Dostal's first year as a full-time back up.

The difference is a year later we have put up fewer goals for than last year and our goalies have been amazing. At 5v5 play, we ranked 29th at GF in the league. Although our GA at 5v5 is ranked 11th best, we are getting shelled far more with shots and its our netminders that have been keeping pucks out.

In this recent stretch, our PK has been on fire after being abysmal to start the season. Asst. coach Thompson deserves credit for the PK turning things around for the past five games. But Gibby said in his interview that upon his return he did give up 3 PK GA in one game (Detroit). Since then, Gibby and Dostal haven't given up a PK goal against. Maybe a combo of both improve PK play and a resurgence in our goalies.

I would still move on from Cronin because he is more of a detriment to our youth development. Based on history, many of our players do well due to individual effort than due to the system. Vatrano has crashed back down to Earth after a great year. Everything is inconsistent save our goalies, provided they're healthy. We cannot erase what happened last year b/c some of those bad traits have carried over into this year.

 

[190Octane]

I agree 100%. The issue for me was that we already knew from last year it wouldn’t work, and it was clear to anyone with eyes by Game 2 this year that the roster as constructed was completely inappropriate for what he was insisting they do. It took him closer to 6 weeks.

You did have new assistant coaches so you’re already running a new power play and penalty kill.

Also, wasn’t it said that the veteran players who played in this system last year said they didn’t know where to be? You would hope that if everything was the same they would know where to be for the most part.

I voted yes on the firing poll because it seemed like he had lost the team but they are showing signs of life and having fun again. The jury is definitely still out but the last 8 games have been very promising.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

You did have new assistant coaches so you’re already running a new power play and penalty kill.

Also, wasn’t it said that the veteran players who played in this system last year said they didn’t know where to be? You would hope that if everything was the same they would know where to be for the most part.

I voted yes on the firing poll because it seemed like he had lost the team but they are showing signs of life and having fun again. The jury is definitely still out but the last 8 games have been very promising.

Anaheim has a new PP coach, Clune. The PK coach, Thompson, was hired last season. He and the PK were bad last season. Cronin is in charge of 5v5 play. The overlap isn't significant, hence why we have different coaches for the ES, PP, and PK.

It doesn't take a season and the start of the next to know where to go. Although, that thought goes out the window since Cronin made changes to the system recently.

 

[TheDarkWingThatDucks]

We weren't calling for Cronin's head at the start of last season either, especially after that 6-game winning streak.

• Last year after 20 games: 9-11-0 (18 pts)
• This year after 20 games: 8-9-3 (19 pts)

• Also, after 21 games last year, the Ducks were only 3 points out of a playoff spot.
• Last year, Anaheim was playing with 4 first time rookies in the NHL: C Carlsson, LD Minty, LD LaCombe, and RD Luneau.
• Last year, Anaheim was playing Mac in his second year in the NHL.
• Last year, it was Dostal's first year as a full-time back up.

The difference is a year later we have put up fewer goals for than last year and our goalies have been amazing. At 5v5 play, we ranked 29th at GF in the league. Although our GA at 5v5 is ranked 11th best, we are getting shelled far more with shots and its our netminders that have been keeping pucks out.

In this recent stretch, our PK has been on fire after being abysmal to start the season. Asst. coach Thompson deserves credit for the PK turning things around for the past five games. But Gibby said in his interview that upon his return he did give up 3 PK GA in one game (Detroit). Since then, Gibby and Dostal haven't given up a PK goal against. Maybe a combo of both improve PK play and a resurgence in our goalies.

I would still move on from Cronin because he is more of a detriment to our youth development. Based on history, many of our players do well due to individual effort than due to the system. Vatrano has crashed back down to Earth after a great year. Everything is inconsistent save our goalies, provided they're healthy. We cannot erase what happened last year b/c some of those bad traits have carried over into this year.

The 6 game winning streak last year was awesome but a lot of it was smoke and mirrors.

Game 1 - @ CBJ 3-2 win in OT, give up a goal 9 minutes in the 3rd to go down 1, score with 3 + minutes to tie, win in overtime.

Game 2 - @ BOS 4–3 win in OT, down 3-1 going into the 3rd, score 2 goals in final 2 minutes to tie, win in overtime.

Game 3 - @ PHI 7-4 just ass whooping. Go up 4-0 midway thru the second, 4-2 heading into the third, 2 goals in the first 5 minutes to make it 6-2.

Game 4 @ PIT 4-3 basically walk off win. Give up a goal with 45 seconds left to tie the game after 2, give up a goal a minute and 25 seconds into the 3rd to go down 1, score under 2 minutes later to tie it. Take 2 penalties under 3 minutes to give Pitt a 5-3, McT scores coming out the box by a great play by Uncle Rico with a few seconds left.

Game 5 VS AZ 4-3 win in OT. Go up 2-0 early in the first, go down 3-2 going into the 3rd. Score 5 minutes in the 3rd hold one for an OT win.

Game 6 VS VGK 4-2 win. Down 2-0 heading into the 3rd, score 3 unanswered and top off with an EN goal.

Our goalies stopped 189 out of 206 shots for a .917 save percentage. So it was great goaltending + just comeback kids, which isn’t really a sustainable way to win. In our last 8 games we are 5-2-1 (all three losses 2-3 losses, and us giving up leads, which young teams have to learn how to close out games with a lead). And only VS Vegas, Chicago, and Detroit (2-1-0) have we had a 1 goal deficit heading into the 3rd.

While the advanced stats are looking great, it’s clear we are playing a more competitive brand off hockey, and it might be slightly more sustainable.

I did the math using hockey reference, thru 13 games this season we had 27 goals, on pace for 170 goals for a season and 2.08 goals per game, the last 8 games we have scored 28 goals, on pace for 287 goals or 3.5 goals per game.

For the season, we have scored 55 goals in 21 games on pace for 215 goals, and 2.62 goals per game.

If we continue to play similar hockey, we should be in almost every game we play, which is what honestly our goal should be this year, we will definitely get blown out still, it’s hockey, it happens.

I for one am very excited for this kings game, as I think it will be a huge litmus test for where we are at around the 1/4 mark of the season as a team.

 

[Ducks DVM]

The 6 game winning streak last year was awesome but a lot of it was smoke and mirrors.

Game 1 - @ CBJ 3-2 win in OT, give up a goal 9 minutes in the 3rd to go down 1, score with 3 + minutes to tie, win in overtime.

Game 2 - @ BOS 4–3 win in OT, down 3-1 going into the 3rd, score 2 goals in final 2 minutes to tie, win in overtime.

Game 3 - @ PHI 7-4 just ass whooping. Go up 4-0 midway thru the second, 4-2 heading into the third, 2 goals in the first 5 minutes to make it 6-2.

Game 4 @ PIT 4-3 basically walk off win. Give up a goal with 45 seconds left to tie the game after 2, give up a goal a minute and 25 seconds into the 3rd to go down 1, score under 2 minutes later to tie it. Take 2 penalties under 3 minutes to give Pitt a 5-3, McT scores coming out the box by a great play by Uncle Rico with a few seconds left.

Game 5 VS AZ 4-3 win in OT. Go up 2-0 early in the first, go down 3-2 going into the 3rd. Score 5 minutes in the 3rd hold one for an OT win.

Game 6 VS VGK 4-2 win. Down 2-0 heading into the 3rd, score 3 unanswered and top off with an EN goal.

Our goalies stopped 189 out of 206 shots for a .917 save percentage. So it was great goaltending + just comeback kids, which isn’t really a sustainable way to win. In our last 8 games we are 5-2-1 (all three losses 2-3 losses, and us giving up leads, which young teams have to learn how to close out games with a lead). And only VS Vegas, Chicago, and Detroit (2-1-0) have we had a 1 goal deficit heading into the 3rd.

While the advanced stats are looking great, it’s clear we are playing a more competitive brand off hockey, and it might be slightly more sustainable.

I did the math using hockey reference, thru 13 games this season we had 27 goals, on pace for 170 goals for a season and 2.08 goals per game, the last 8 games we have scored 28 goals, on pace for 287 goals or 3.5 goals per game.

For the season, we have scored 55 goals in 21 games on pace for 215 goals, and 2.62 goals per game.

If we continue to play similar hockey, we should be in almost every game we play, which is what honestly our goal should be this year, we will definitely get blown out still, it’s hockey, it happens.

I for one am very excited for this kings game, as I think it will be a huge litmus test for where we are at around the 1/4 mark of the season as a team.

The last 8 games we are 20th in shots for, 31st in shots against, 30th in shot differential, 28th in SAT%, 29th in USAT%. 2nd in 5v5 shooting %, and 10th in 5v5 SV %. They are 5-2-1.

That’s not sustainable. That’s a hot streak relying on goalie play and an unsustainable shooting %.