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Speculation: 2024-25 Coaching/Management/Ownership

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I note you didn't address your unsupported claim the ducks have an internal cap whereas there's ample evidence they don't (i.e., the many years they spent to the cap).

It is all over the internet that the lunar landing is fake and that the earth is flat. So I guess you think that's true too?

It seems unwise to form opinions based on unverified sources. That the standard I try to operate under . . . but to each their own.
We have one debate and you're going to nitpick and chew my ass every time I reply to one of your posts now?

It's something I consider a reasonable inference. If it's not a hard cap on how much our GM is allowed to pay our head coaches then there's at least some effort or trend in not paying top dollar on the job. Do I think that means we can't throw top dollar at a premier coach? Of course not. That was my position in the first place. What damage am I doing to anyone if my inference is wrong?

I don't know why this is making you this hostile.
 
The evidence that there's an internal cap is fairly substantial. The Ducks haven't been a cap team except for those years when they were playing for a Cup. They haven't spent a bunch of money to acquire assets in return for taking on dead/bad contracts. According to Elliotte Friedman on his 32 Thoughts podcast, they don't pay as much for head coaches as other teams. They're a small market team who doesn't fill the arena.

All of that is circumstantial, but it's fairly comprehensive evidence that the owners have a budget for the team and will only bump that budget upward during competitive seasons.
 
It’s a multi million dollar business. Just because we don’t compete with the rangers or leafs in off ice spending shouldn’t mean we will never hire a proven coach who won’t come cheap.

And take it FWIW, I spoke with a very connected member of the organization this year who said Pat has a pretty free rein to spend in off ice areas.

All that said I’m doubtful Pat would hire a high profile coach because I don’t think he could stand not to meddle in how the team is coached.
 
The evidence that there's an internal cap is fairly substantial. The Ducks haven't been a cap team except for those years when they were playing for a Cup. They haven't spent a bunch of money to acquire assets in return for taking on dead/bad contracts. According to Elliotte Friedman on his 32 Thoughts podcast, they don't pay as much for head coaches as other teams. They're a small market team who doesn't fill the arena.

All of that is circumstantial, but it's fairly comprehensive evidence that the owners have a budget for the team and will only bump that budget upward during competitive seasons.
But did we actually land on the moon?
 
The evidence that there's an internal cap is fairly substantial. The Ducks haven't been a cap team except for those years when they were playing for a Cup. They haven't spent a bunch of money to acquire assets in return for taking on dead/bad contracts. According to Elliotte Friedman on his 32 Thoughts podcast, they don't pay as much for head coaches as other teams. They're a small market team who doesn't fill the arena.

All of that is circumstantial, but it's fairly comprehensive evidence that the owners have a budget for the team and will only bump that budget upward during competitive seasons.
In the past 4+ years, there was no way they could have spent to the cap because of the rebuild. Nor should they have. Before that, they were essentially a cap team. After the SC win, they were basically capped out for most of the next decade, to the point that they had to trade McDonald and Kuntiz to remain cap compliant. The re-signed Perry, Getz and Kesler to massive deals.

To the bolded above, most teams not in cup contention don't spend to the cap. That is what you do when rebuilding. CapWages | NHL Salary Cap Data Look at the list, many big market teams (Philly, NYI, Montreal, Boston, Van, and Calgary) are well below the cap. That is because they are rebuilding.

They took on the Backes contract (1.5 years), McGinn, Trouba, Husso, John Moore, Dumoulin, Fabbri (all bad contracts) and overpaid for Strome/Gudas/Killorn. They tried to acquire Dandonov who was a salary dump at the time. They retained on most of the TDL trades in recent years.

I think its fair to claim Verbeek has not used the ducks excess salary space/retention slots in an ideal manner. But there is no reason to think that's because of an internal cap. Knowing what we do about Verbeek, it seems to be entirely him. And in that regard, its absurd to suggest there's an internal cap when the ducks are spending hundreds of millions of on the team outside of the cap beyond the bad contracts mentioned above.

In terms of coaches salaries, the ducks have hired high profile coaches (BB and RC) and paid them market. They paid Brian Burke top dollar (gm, not as a coach). Eakins and Cronin were certainly less expensive options. But which more expensive high profile coaches would have taken the ducks job during the rebuild? None that I can think of - those coaches all had better options which is why they're highly paid.
 
In the past 4+ years, there was no way they could have spent to the cap because of the rebuild. Nor should they have. Before that, they were essentially a cap team. After the SC win, they were basically capped out for most of the next decade, to the point that they had to trade McDonald and Kuntiz to remain cap compliant. The re-signed Perry, Getz and Kesler to massive deals.

To the bolded above, most teams not in cup contention don't spend to the cap. That is what you do when rebuilding. CapWages | NHL Salary Cap Data Look at the list, many big market teams (Philly, NYI, Montreal, Boston, Van, and Calgary) are well below the cap. That is because they are rebuilding.

They took on the Backes contract (1.5 years), McGinn, Trouba, Husso, John Moore, Dumoulin, Fabbri (all bad contracts) and overpaid for Strome/Gudas/Killorn. They tried to acquire Dandonov who was a salary dump at the time. They retained on most of the TDL trades in recent years.

I think its fair to claim Verbeek has not used the ducks excess salary space/retention slots in an ideal manner. But there is no reason to think that's because of an internal cap. Knowing what we do about Verbeek, it seems to be entirely him. And in that regard, its absurd to suggest there's an internal cap when the ducks are spending hundreds of millions of on the team outside of the cap beyond the bad contracts mentioned above.

In terms of coaches salaries, the ducks have hired high profile coaches (BB and RC) and paid them market. They paid Brian Burke top dollar (gm, not as a coach). Eakins and Cronin were certainly less expensive options. But which more expensive high profile coaches would have taken the ducks job during the rebuild? None that I can think of - those coaches all had better options which is why they're highly paid.
It's clear you have a point you feel needs to be proven. I like the Samuelis as owners. I think they could be better in some ways, but for the most part, are good for the team and very good for the community.

So I don't think you need to be insulted on their behalf when we say they don't spend as much money as most other teams in the NHL. Murray acknowledged as much during his tenure. Friedman has said it. And there is plenty of other evidence that Anaheim spends less on its roster and its coaches than other franchises. It's ok. It doesn't make them monsters.
 
It's clear you have a point you feel needs to be proven. I like the Samuelis as owners. I think they could be better in some ways, but for the most part, are good for the team and very good for the community.

So I don't think you need to be insulted on their behalf when we say they don't spend as much money as most other teams in the NHL. Murray acknowledged as much during his tenure. Friedman has said it. And there is plenty of other evidence that Anaheim spends less on its roster and its coaches than other franchises. It's ok. It doesn't make them monsters.
You are constructing a strawman. The bolded was not Handsolo's or your contention. My statement was "Hopefully this [The one billion dollar improvement to the Honda Center] puts an end to any further claims that the ducks owners are cheapskates and/or don't invest in the team."

Then Handsolo chimed in with the but they don't spend to the cap/pay coaches, at which point you joined the discussion.


I freely admit some teams spend more than the ducks, notably Toronto, Vegas and NYR who all engage in salary cap manipulation. Typically it is teams that are in SC contention - which the ducks are not. It is relevant to mention that even those teams did fall below the cap during their rebuilds - the NYR are currently well below the cap. But the fact that other teams spend more (at times) has no bearing on whether the Samuelis are cheapskates (as some have claimed) or invest money in the team/hockey.

It is remarkable (and at this point pretty clearly wrong) to suggest the owner's are cheapskates or unwilling to spend on the team. That was the post Handsolo responded to. I can't think of any other sports owner who are financing their stadium project with entirely private funds.
 
You are constructing a strawman. The bolded was not Handsolo's or your contention. My statement was "Hopefully this [The one billion dollar improvement to the Honda Center] puts an end to any further claims that the ducks owners are cheapskates and/or don't invest in the team."

Then Handsolo chimed in with the but they don't spend to the cap/pay coaches, at which point you joined the discussion.


I freely admit some teams spend more than the ducks, notably Toronto, Vegas and NYR who all engage in salary cap manipulation. Typically it is teams that are in SC contention - which the ducks are not. It is relevant to mention that even those teams did fall below the cap during their rebuilds - the NYR are currently well below the cap. But the fact that other teams spend more (at times) has no bearing on whether the Samuelis are cheapskates (as some have claimed) or invest money in the team/hockey.

It is remarkable (and at this point pretty clearly wrong) to suggest the owner's are cheapskates or unwilling to spend on the team. That was the post Handsolo responded to. I can't think of any other sports owner who are financing their stadium project with entirely private funds.

I guess I fall somewhere in between then. Overall, I don't think they're cheapskates. I've defended their spending, especially on community building initiatives.

But I think they have gone cheap on the Ducks at times, not spending more on the roster, coaching staff, or back office when clearly they could.
 
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I guess I fall somewhere in between then. Overall, I don't think they're cheapskates. I've defended their spending, especially on community building initiatives.

But I think they have gone cheap on the Ducks at times, not spending more on the roster, coaching staff, or back office when clearly they could.

I don’t think I’ve ever heard the Ducks being unwilling to spend money on a player. I could be wrong and I’m not saying that’s what you or anyone is saying, I’m just saying lol.
 
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Ballmer buying the Clippers, Broadcom (cpu chip set maker) increasing in value as well as the recent development of A.I. requiring said chip sets, and the OC Vibe development has made losing millions in the double digits more palatable for the Samueli's. They are literally paying out of their own pockets over $1 billion to renovate the Honda Center and have no worries about not recouping that $1 Bil from the Honda Center. The OC Vibe is what will bring in projected massive revenue for the Samueli's year round than a minimum of 42 regular season games.

The Ducks were managed like a small market team. Some sports organizations behave like that too like the MLB's Seattle Mariners. They had the best pitching in all of the MLB last year, but no hitting because their owner put a limit on their spending due to maximizing profits. It carried over to this season where MLB pundits all felt sad for the Mariners' FO being throttled down due to a greedy owner. Those pundit believed the Mariners could be in a run for several championships if it were not for the limited budget. Same story probably for many organizations with set budgets.
 
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