GDT: 2024-2025 Training Camp

[Darren McCord]

Part of my impatience when it comes to starting the next chapter is that I genuinely think Sullivan's ego would make him leave if faced with coaching a perennial bottom feeder as the team rebuilds. Especially so because he'd face more and more questions about the development and progress of genuinely good, top tier prospects with offensive expectations.

Lol no way. He makes a crap ton of money to hang out with his Boston Bro's. Also I really do not think Sullivan has a big ego. He may present himself that way but I think if he had a big ego he would eventually clash with Sid, Geno and Tang but they all love him.

 

[Tasty Biscuits]

Woof.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Lol no way. He makes a crap ton of money to hang out with his Boston Bro's. Also I really do not think Sullivan has a big ego. He may present himself that way but I think if he had a big ego he would eventually clash with Sid, Geno and Tang but they all love him.

You don't think Sully has an ego? I think that dude's got an ego to rival Jagr's. Dude's so spitefully stubborn that he'll torpedo a game/series if it meant not changing something and potentially proving he was wrong all along. We've seen it dozens of times since the back to backs.

 

[Darren McCord]

I don't really mind having McGroarty as one of the PKers if it means that one of the shittier players would be out of the lineup with McGroarty killing penalties

In theory, McGroarty being able to kill penalties removes the need (in Sullivan's eyes) for keeping one of these pure PKers who sucks otherwise in the lineup. You could run with a bottom-6 of McGroarty-Eller-Puljujarvi and Lizotte-Hayes-Beauvillier without worrying about if you have enough PKers (or PKing centers) in the lineup.

I don't mind him being a pk'er. I think more of this teams top players should pk.

But a sullivan pker is different. Sullivan makes them turn into pkers for the whole game on the pk and not on it. McGroarty needs to be allowed to play his game not be forced into roles. Sullivan has a history of saying this and making it the most important aspect of their development, hindering others.

You don't think Sully has an ego? I think that dude's got an ego to rival Jagr's. Dude's so spitefully stubborn that he'll torpedo a game/series if it meant not changing something and potentially proving he was wrong all along. We've seen it dozens of times since the back to backs.

I guess let me correct myself. He has an ego but I do not think it is so big he would leave a team over it. He doesn't have a Mike Babcock ego.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

yeah sounds great until your number 1 prospect takes a slapper from Carlson in the ankle

 

[Pancakes]

McGroarty developing pking skills would be fine I guess.

I just hate the way Sullivan uses his bottom six. If Mcgroarty is going to play in the bottom six then he's going to be relied on to play boring no event hockey, and that's not the way to develop the kid's offensive instincts.

 

[Darren McCord]

yeah sounds great until your number 1 prospect takes a slapper from Carlson in the ankle

Meh this is an issue the team taught you. You don't have to block slappers to be on the pk. Bergeron, Kopitar, Marchand, Giroux, many other tops guys pk. Heck even geno had 90mins on the pk his second season.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

It's one thing for a guy like Kovalchuk or Fedorov to PK. They were speedsters, they weren't plugs out there blocking shots and all that stuff. McG's not an exceptional skater, he's not a threat to go the other way or anything like that. He's absolutely gonna be coached to be ZAR.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I don't mind him being a pk'er. I think more of this teams top players should pk.

But a sullivan pker is different. Sullivan makes them turn into pkers for the whole game on the pk and not on it. McGroarty needs to be allowed to play his game not be forced into roles. Sullivan has a history of saying this and making it the most important aspect of their development, hindering others.

I think the theory here is that McGroarty killing penalties means that you won't have to have these shitty "only PKer" players in the lineup. You won't need to have these shitty Acciari/Nieto/ect guys in the lineup if your good guys can actually kill penalties.

I don't want to give Sullivan credit for that because who knows if that would actually be true, but the thought I have is that McGroarty (and Rust and O'Connor, for that matter) being regular PKers means that you won't need these shitty Nieto or Acciari guys in the lineup.

yeah sounds great until your number 1 prospect takes a slapper from Carlson in the ankle

Do you want your good players to be able to kill penalties, meaning you won't need to have these PK only players in the lineup, or have specific PKers in the lineup? Because those are really your two options.

I don't understand why people complain about Sullivan insisting on having these pure defensive grinders to kill penalties at the bottom of the lineup, but also then complain when he's trying to get McGroarty to add that skillset to his abilities. Like you need 6 PKing forwards in your forward group, who's going to do that?

This isn't defending Sullivan's lineup decisions, he's far too over-reliant on these shit tier players that only offer PKing and nothing else, but you do need 6 forwards who can kill penalties. Right now, they have O'Connor, Rust, Eller, Lizotte (when he's healthy) and Acciari as regular PKers, with Hayes and Beauvillier having a bit of experience from a few years ago. If you don't want Acciari in the lineup, you need to get someone else as a regular PKer there. Bunting, Rakell and Puljujarvi have no PKing experience and you sure as hell don't want Crosby or Malkin doing that.

 

[Darren McCord]

It's one thing for a guy like Kovalchuk or Fedorov to PK. They were speedsters, they weren't plugs out there blocking shots and all that stuff. McG's not an exceptional skater, he's not a threat to go the other way or anything like that. He's absolutely gonna be coached to be ZAR.

Tom Wilson literally pk's. You don't have to be a speedster. I'd love to see DOC and McG pking together. This team is never a threat, not because of speed but because of lack of skill.

 

[SomeDude]

Sully’s obsession with PKing is so awesome. Gotta pay guys 2-3 mill to kill penalties and suck at all other facets of the game. It’s not like the majority of fringe NHL level players can’t PK, if told to focus on that, for league minimum.

Also nice to see Stefan Noesen scoring the opening goal of the season and continuing to put together a solid bottom 6 career. Always passed the eye test for me. Too bad we weren’t smart enough to keep him, but he doesn’t PK.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Meh this is an issue the team taught you. You don't have to block slappers to be on the pk. Bergeron, Kopitar, Marchand, Giroux, many other tops guys pk. Heck even geno had 90mins on the pk his second season.

I think the theory here is that McGroarty killing penalties means that you won't have to have these shitty "only PKer" players in the lineup. You won't need to have these shitty Acciari/Nieto/ect guys in the lineup if your good guys can actually kill penalties.

I don't want to give Sullivan credit for that because who knows if that would actually be true, but the thought I have is that McGroarty (and Rust and O'Connor, for that matter) being regular PKers means that you won't need these shitty Nieto or Acciari guys in the lineup.



Do you want your good players to be able to kill penalties, meaning you won't need to have these PK only players in the lineup, or have specific PKers in the lineup? Because those are really your two options.

I don't understand why people complain about Sullivan insisting on having these pure defensive grinders to kill penalties at the bottom of the lineup, but also then complain when he's trying to get McGroarty to add that skillset to his abilities. Like you need 6 PKing forwards in your forward group, who's going to do that?

This isn't defending Sullivan's lineup decisions, he's far too over-reliant on these shit tier players that only offer PKing and nothing else, but you do need 6 forwards who can kill penalties. Right now, they have O'Connor, Rust, Eller, Lizotte (when he's healthy) and Acciari as regular PKers, with Hayes and Beauvillier having a bit of experience from a few years ago.

was having some fun. Dark humor

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Do you want your good players to be able to kill penalties, meaning you won't need to have these PK only players in the lineup, or have specific PKers in the lineup? Because those are really your two options.

I don't understand why people complain about Sullivan insisting on having these pure defensive grinders to kill penalties at the bottom of the lineup, but also then complain when he's trying to get McGroarty to add that skillset to his abilities. Like you need 6 PKing forwards in your forward group, who's going to do that?

This isn't defending Sullivan's lineup decisions, he's far too over-reliant on these shit tier players that only offer PKing and nothing else, but you do need 6 forwards who can kill penalties. Right now, they have O'Connor, Rust, Eller, Lizotte (when he's healthy) and Acciari as regular PKers, with Hayes and Beauvillier having a bit of experience from a few years ago.

For me, it's less about the idea that skilled players can be used on the PK and more about the fact it's become a tiresome meme with Sullivan at this point where he literally can't open his mouth about a player without mentioning how well or not they can PK.

Like, I get mentioning it every now and then when talking about all the things a player brings to the table first and then mention "and an added bonus is we feel comfortable with him on the PK". It's another when that's Sullivan's #1 focus whenever talking about a player bringing something to the table.

 

[Sideline]

McGroarty hasn't shown me enough to be obviously better than the current top six options, but he's so obviously got a higher hockey IQ than the likes of DOC or Beau the right long term choice for the team is to let McGroarty grow in that roll from the start.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Yeah, f*** it. Coach McG up to be the next ZAR. It'll be awesome. PK is such a sacred skill, he's lucky Sullivan's willing to bestow the knowledge upon him.

 

[Dennis Reynolds]

Tom Wilson literally pk's. You don't have to be a speedster. I'd love to see DOC and McG pking together. This team is never a threat, not because of speed but because of lack of skill.

It's speed too tho. Have you looked at the NHL EDGE numbers? IIRC, at least half of our guys, probably more, were in the bottom 50% in the league. That's significant.

 

[Empoleon8771]

For me, it's less about the idea that skilled players can be used on the PK and more about the fact it's become a tiresome meme with Sullivan at this point where he literally can't open his mouth about a player without mentioning how well or not they can PK.

Like, I get mentioning it every now and then when talking about all the things a player brings to the table first and then mention "and an added bonus is we feel comfortable with him on the PK". It's another when that's Sullivan's #1 focus whenever talking about a player bringing something to the table.

Yeah I understand this, but he's not doing that with McGroarty. The idea of McGroarty picking up PKing as something he can do is that it means that these shitty "#1 focus is PKing" players aren't in the lineup. I don't want to give him credit for doing that, because he has a long track record of bad lineup decisions, but I'm all for McGroarty learning how to kill penalties if it means they won't have to have one of those shitty PK-only players in the lineup.

I have a very similar thought to how Crosby and Malkin should be used as well. They should increase the defensive assignments of those two, at least to a level where the bottom-6 isn't absolutely drowning in this ultra defensive usage. Sullivan won't have the crutch of "he's bad defensively so I can't play him in the bottom-6" like he used/uses with guys like Sprong and Puustinen.

Yeah, f*** it. Coach McG up to be the next ZAR. It'll be awesome. PK is such a sacred skill, he's lucky Sullivan's willing to bestow the knowledge upon him.

"I don't understand why people complain about Sullivan insisting on having these pure defensive grinders to kill penalties at the bottom of the lineup, but also then complain when he's trying to get McGroarty to add that skillset to his abilities. Like you need 6 PKing forwards in your forward group, who's going to do that?"

Just going to copy-paste this from above.

 

[Darren McCord]

It's speed too tho. Have you looked at the NHL EDGE numbers? IIRC, at least half of our guys, probably more, were in the bottom 50% in the league. That's significant.

Yet they were 11th in pk? Which proves you can do it without speed. So if you can't add speed at least at the skill.

Doc - McG
Eller - Rust

 

[pistolpete11]

I don't have a problem with McGroarty PKing. As others have mentioned, a lot of top players in the league PK.

It's just the mindset of this f***ing dumbass coach. Really? THAT'S what it takes to break into the NHL? Being a PKer?

 

[Dennis Reynolds]

Yet they were 11th in pk? Which proves you can do it without speed. So if you can't add speed at least at the skill.

Doc - McG
Eller - Rust

Why not both?

I don't want to be all Sully here, but your lines combined only have one proven faceoff man.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Yeah I understand this, but he's not doing that with McGroarty. The idea of McGroarty picking up PKing as something he can do is that it means that these shitty "#1 focus is PKing" players aren't in the lineup. I don't want to give him credit for doing that, because he has a long track record of bad lineup decisions, but I'm all for McGroarty learning how to kill penalties if it means they won't have to have one of those shitty PK-only players in the lineup.

I have a very similar thought to how Crosby and Malkin should be used as well. They should increase the defensive assignments of those two, at least to a level where the bottom-6 isn't absolutely drowning in this ultra defensive usage. Sullivan won't have the crutch of "he's bad defensively so I can't play him in the bottom-6" like he used/uses with guys like Sprong and Puustinen.



"I don't understand why people complain about Sullivan insisting on having these pure defensive grinders to kill penalties at the bottom of the lineup, but also then complain when he's trying to get McGroarty to add that skillset to his abilities. Like you need 6 PKing forwards in your forward group, who's going to do that?"

Just going to copy-paste this from above.

I guess it's because I see, from miles away, Sullivan trying to turn McG into aforementioned purely defensive grunt, forsaking any and all offensive capability or potential he has.

I think we're years beyond giving this coach the benefit of the doubt with stuff like this, but more power to you for thinking he's just trying to round out McG's game and phase out a useless grunt elsewhere, as opposed to trying to turn this organization's best prospect into the event neutral, blackhole of excitement that is ZAR.

 

[Dennis Reynolds]

I feel like I missed an article or tweet or something? Did McGroarty officially make the team?

 

[Empoleon8771]

If McGroarty is a regular PKer for them, I figure their PKing duos would be:

PK1: Eller and O'Connor
PK2: Lizotte and Rust
PK3: Hayes and McGroarty
Extras: Acciari and Beauvillier

That's why I've been bringing up the "Acciari out of the lineup" angle. I can't say this definitively because it's Mike Sullivan, but I don't really see a role for Acciari with the 3 PKing groups above him there. There's no need to keep him in for PKing reasons and I figure Sullivan would rather have Beauvillier in the lineup over Acciari without the PK being a need.

 

[Sideline]

I guess it's because I see, from miles away, Sullivan trying to turn McG into aforementioned purely defensive grunt, forsaking any and all offensive capability or potential he has.

I think we're years beyond giving this coach the benefit of the doubt with stuff like this, but more power to you for thinking he's just trying to round out McG's game and phase out a useless grunt elsewhere, as opposed to trying to turn this organization's best prospect into the event neutral, blackhole of excitement that is ZAR.

I was just about to write this exact post. We've got a high level offensive prospect and we're talking about adding a PK skillset?!? WTF are we doing here? Let's maybe talk about working on his net front pp skills, board work, or 5 on 5 d zone play.

But PK? GTFO. This guy is out best hope for a 30 30 winger. Focus on making him that. Don't waste development time turning him in to a 15 15 dime a dozen coal miner.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

OK so yeah... DEFINITELY start Groats in the AHL and keep him the hell away from this doofus.

You know your coach is a hopeless knob when he talks about penalty killing like it's some sacred lost art that requires years of training and ability. It's the f***ing PK. You can have guys who can barely crack the league do it acceptably well FFS.