GDT: 2024-2025 Training Camp

[CheckingLineCenter]

I actually don’t really mind prospects playing 4th line, especially talented ones.

It’s more about who they are playing with haha. Like no way you could develop a kid there the past couple years with BJC and co. But no problem with throwing a kid on line centered by a Cullen (first stint), getting 9-10 min a night.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

My issue with the "you gotta prove you belong" stuff is, like, how do we sit here and define the metric by which guys are measured in so far as being deserving of a spot? This team's had like 5 guys undeserving of a spot for years.

If the requirements are that young guys come in and blow the doors off the joint and play flawless hockey, I think that's pretty flawed. This team doesn't have young guys who are gonna do that, even McG who is leaps and bounds above any prospect in the system (and for some time).

Younger guys are gonna have stumbles, they're gonna look like rookies. This team, *especially* at this stage of the era, is gonna have to shift its stance on what it means to earn a spot. But then again, it's also gonna have to leave spots for open competition as opposed to a bottom-6 that's always chock full o' slopshit vets.

People act like it takes some kind of secret arcane hockey knowledge wrapped in enigmatic and ancient magics in order to play the stinkin' third and fourth lines in this league and I'll just never understand it. I promise you there have been players at the A level even in this half-barren system all along who could have cleared that bar years since.

Tom Kuhnhackl was a Cup winning depth guy called right outta the A with basically no experience whatsoever FFS. And he's been in Europe for years, now. So clearly not some special player.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Idk "outperforming Jesse Puljujarvi" seems like a fairly low bar for a guy to clear for making the team

I think the Acciari stuff is absolutely nonsense and I flat out do not understand why they seem to dislike Puustinen like they do, but I don't particularly think that any of their young guys really outperformed anyone who should be in the Penguins top-12 (Puustinen and Puljujarvi in the top-12).



That is a silly line of thought. Yager wouldn't be making the team this year either.

They traded Yager for McGroarty because they feel McGroarty is a better prospect, him being more NHL ready is secondary to him being viewed as a better prospect.

You and I both know it has nothing to do with performance or potential, dude. This team's bottom-6 was locked in on July 1st at like 2pm.

And for the record, I'm saying this as someone who thinks the likes of Puustinen, Poulin, Pono, etc. are all pretty much afterthoughts and forgettable in the big scheme of things. I don't really care about any of 'em, but I'd rather see younger guys learning on the job at this level than the 19th iteration of whatever vet plug Sullivan sees himself in, so he gives extreme preferential treatment to.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Idk "outperforming Jesse Puljujarvi" seems like a fairly low bar for a guy to clear for making the team

The problem is we are told to not read into anything at training camp but then for certain guys who don’t blow the doors off - the same 2-3 weeks seemingly trumps their body of work the prior year/AHL time. Other guys get a pass.

Like based on everyone that watched WBS, Poulin should get a shot. 40+ game sample. Based on 50+ NHL games, Puus should get a shot.

Maybe Poulin and Puus haven’t outplayed Poolparty in the last 8 days— but neither have Acciari, Glass, Hayes. But those 3 get a pass, Poulin/Puus don’t. And nothing in those three’s (Acciari Glass Hayes) prior season is that impressive, nor do we have big trade cost/financial commitments to them that makes us desperate to make them fit.

Just feels like we are selectively applying different criteria to different players.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

But Ludvig punches people.

Ludvig is awful.

 

[Empoleon8771]

The problem is we are told to not read into anything at training camp but then for certain guys who don’t blow the doors off - the same 2-3 weeks seemingly trumps their body of work the prior year/AHL time. Other guys get a pass.

Like based on everyone that watched WBS, Poulin should get a shot. 40+ game sample. Based on 50+ NHL games, Puus should get a shot.

Maybe Poulin and Puus haven’t outplayed Poolparty in the last 8 days— but neither have Acciari, Glass, Hayes. But those 3 get a pass, Poulin/Puus don’t. And nothing in those three’s (Acciari Glass Hayes) prior season is that impressive, nor do we have big trade cost/financial commitments to them that makes us desperate to make them fit.

Just feels like we are selectively applying different criteria to different players.

Hayes and Glass have both looked solid from what I’ve seen, I don’t see how it makes sense to lump them with Acciari. And beyond that, if you’re setting past performances as being criteria, I don’t see an argument for someone like Poulin over Hayes or Glass. Poulin looking good in the AHL doesn’t outweigh Hayes and Glass being serviceable NHL players for multiple years.

We all agree on Puustinen, but that’s really the only young guy not being treated fairly here. I simply do not think Poulin is better than Hayes or Glass right now. They should be playing the 12 best forwards, and I simply do not think any of Poulin, McGroarty, Ponomarev or any of these other young guys fall in that category.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

My issue with the "you gotta prove you belong" stuff is, like, how do we sit here and define the metric by which guys are measured in so far as being deserving of a spot? This team's had like 5 guys undeserving of a spot for years.

If the requirements are that young guys come in and blow the doors off the joint and play flawless hockey, I think that's pretty flawed. This team doesn't have young guys who are gonna do that, even McG who is leaps and bounds above any prospect in the system (and for some time).

Younger guys are gonna have stumbles, they're gonna look like rookies. This team, *especially* at this stage of the era, is gonna have to shift its stance on what it means to earn a spot. But then again, it's also gonna have to leave spots for open competition as opposed to a bottom-6 that's always chock full o' slopshit vets.

The other issue is, prove *what*, exactly? Like, if you play one of these youngsters next to Sid/Geno and they can't produce, then fine. They didn't prove they deserved the spot because they were put in a role that played to their supposed strengths and they failed at it. But if you play a scoring prospect next to two AHL defensive plugs on the 3rd or 4th line, what exactly are you expecting?

This is my big issue with Sullivan and Co. The "prove you deserve it" thing doesn't hold up to scrutiny because they're rarely put in a position to showcase their abilities and whether or not they're ready for that role yet. Playing an offensive minded player on the 4th line with two plugs and getting 7 minutes per night and then him failing to "prove" anything in that spot is just plain stupid.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

People act like it takes some kind of secret arcane hockey knowledge wrapped in enigmatic and ancient magics in order to play the stinkin' third and fourth lines in this league and I'll just never understand it. I promise you there have been players at the A level even in this half-barren system all along who could have cleared that bar years since.

Tom Kuhnhackl was a Cup winning depth guy called right outta the A with basically no experience whatsoever FFS. And he's been in Europe for years, now. So clearly not some special player.

Right? Like, I get that none of these younger guys are anything special. I agree. I kinda think they're all just gonna fade into obscurity and be forgotten in a couple years. But I'd rather see them with the potential--albeit miniscule--that they turn into something, as opposed to more lame vets who don't do anything.

Even if they suck, which again, I think is entirely probable, the bottom-6 has been trash for close to a decade at this point.

Not going out and signing the Acciaris, McGinns, Nietos, etc. of the world isn't gonna make or break a team's chances at anything except putting their fanbase to sleep.

 

[The Old Master]

They traded Yager for McGroarty because they feel McGroarty is a better prospect, him being more NHL ready is secondary to him being viewed as a better prospect.

i think that might be a rewrite of history.

 

[Empoleon8771]

i think that might be a rewrite of history.

No it isn’t.

 

[SEALBound]

I think it's funny how people post here saying the team sucks, the coach sucks, and there's no way they will make the playoffs...while also being super pissed that McGroarty will likely start in the AHL as if that would single-handedly turn the tide.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Not going out and signing the Acciaris, McGinns, Nietos, etc. of the world isn't gonna make or break a team's chances at anything except putting their fanbase to sleep.

And here's the kicker - if you absolutely MUST add a guy like that, you can do that at the TDL as a rental so you're not stuck with their contract after, for like a conditional 3rd round pick. If you're a contender at the TDL and you feel like your bottom six needs one veteran addition like an Acciari, it's so f***ing easy to do that.

Instead, we sign a bunch of those guys in free agency for multiple years and they ended up taking roster spots for any youngster who may or may not be as good or better.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

And here's the kicker - if you absolutely MUST add a guy like that, you can do that at the TDL as a rental so you're not stuck with their contract after, for like a conditional 3rd round pick. If you're a contender at the TDL and you feel like your bottom six needs one veteran addition like an Acciari, it's so f***ing easy to do that.

Instead, we sign a bunch of those guys in free agency for multiple years and they ended up taking roster spots for any youngster who may or may not be as good or better.

Yeah, I'll never understand why this coach/team feel the need to sign these guys on day 1 of FA. You can find these guys on the waiver wire throughout the year like a dozen times over.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Whio

Yeah, I'll never understand why this coach/team feel the need to sign these guys on day 1 of FA. You can find these guys on the waiver wire throughout the year like a dozen times over.

No no you guys just don't understand... the penalty kill is an ART form, ok?

And it takes many years, several teams and at least 2.5M a year for 3 years to do it.

 

[eXile3]

I'm not saying this as a defense of Sullivan's roster decisions, but what young guys really performed to a level to make the team?

The thing that irritates me with this camp is that Acciari keeps getting a look when he sucks, but I don't really think any of the young guys outperformed Puustinen or Puljujarvi for a spot. If they're going based on performance, I feel like the lines should be something like:

O'Connor-Crosby-Rust
Bunting-Malkin-Rakell
Beauvillier-Eller-Puustinen
Lizotte-Hayes-Puljujarvi/Glass
Glass/Puljujarvi-Acciari

McGroarty has been their best young guy in the games so far IMO, but he hasn't really outperformed anyone in this bottom-6 from what I've seen and it's silly to keep him as an extra. The Acciari thing is pissing me off especially when it's going to screw over Puustinen, but that's really about it.

I’m counting Puustinen as one of the young guys.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Imagine how much cooler NHL hockey would be if coaches who were plugs throughout their career didn't see themselves in guys like ZAR and Acciari and Tanner Glass, and give them preferential treatment and pretend they were anything but absolute shit as far as NHL players go.

 

[Ryder71]

I think it's funny how people post here saying the team sucks, the coach sucks, and there's no way they will make the playoffs...while also being super pissed that McGroarty will likely start in the AHL as if that would single-handedly turn the tide.

I'm guessin ppl wanna see a shift in philosophy, but I agree with your premise. Rutger won't change our trajectory this season.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I’m counting Puustinen as one of the young guys.

Yeah Puustinen’s usage is moronic and is another glowing case of Sullivan being stupid. I just don’t see any other young guy not making the team as a mistake.

They should be playing the 12 best forwards and I think those forwards right now are:

O’Connor-Crosby-Rust
Bunting-Malkin-Rakell
Beauvillier-Eller-Puustinen
Lizotte-Hayes-Puljujarvi

I just don’t feel like any of the young guys have shown to be better than anyone in this group, at least not yet. The love Acciari is getting from Sullivan is nonsensical but that’s really the only disagreement I have.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Hayes and Glass have both looked solid from what I’ve seen, I don’t see how it makes sense to lump them with Acciari. And beyond that, if you’re setting past performances as being criteria, I don’t see an argument for someone like Poulin over Hayes or Glass. Poulin looking good in the AHL doesn’t outweigh Hayes and Glass being serviceable NHL players for multiple years.

We all agree on Puustinen, but that’s really the only young guy not being treated fairly here. I simply do not think Poulin is better than Hayes or Glass right now. They should be playing the 12 best forwards, and I simply do not think any of Poulin, McGroarty, Ponomarev or any of these other young guys fall in that category.

They’ve been largely fine I’m just saying if the bar is as simple as “outplay Poolparty” others have also failed to clear that (because the dude had a hatty)

 

[66-30-33]

Glad we don't have that loser Smith anymore.

 

[Dennis Reynolds]

O’Connor-Crosby-Rust
Bunting-Malkin-Rakell
Beauvillier-Eller-Puustinen
Lizotte-Hayes-Puljujarvi

This is exactly what I want. Glass rotating in as needed. Poulin waved, as unfortunate as that is for him given his struggles.

Edit: I'm operating under the assumption that they carry 8 D, which looks like what they're going to do. Leaving only one spot for an extra forward.

Also: I wouldn't mind Beauvillier and O'Connor swapping every now-and-then just to see what happens.

Edit 2: I completely forgot about Acciari.

I still want the above lines tho.