GDT: 2024-2025 Training Camp

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Aging? He's 27.

Yeah that's old for a "we can fix him" player. That's pushin' 30, bud. Downright ancient in sports.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

So the solution is Anthony Beauvillier?

O'Connor is a good defender, he should be first in line for that job IMHO.

They know DOC can play with Sid and Rust. They're going to experiment to see if there is another combo that works, too.

That's what camp is for.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Aging? He's 27.

1 year older than DOC at last check.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

This is all just typical Sullivan. Puustinen looked good on the third line last season, so instead of building off of that, let's demote him and see how he reacts. O'Connor played well with Crosby late last season, so let's demote him and see how he reacts. Meanwhile, let's put reclamation projects in their spots.

It is early in camp and lots can still happen, but we have seen this movie before. We can argue that these players in particular (Puustinen and O'Connor) do not have great long-range upside compared to the likes of Beauvillier and Glass, but I just don't like the philosophy. There really is no hope for prospects in this organization under Sullivan. It won't be any different once Koivunen and Ponomarev will be deemed ready.

HOPEFULLY, McGroarty has enough going for him to sidetrack this nonsense. Otherwise, he will be just like the rest.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Guys I'm not saying that he's gonna get his AARP card in the mail and start wearing those bulky wraparound sunglasses over his normal glasses but 27 is getting up there for a "project" kind of player.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

They know DOC can play with Sid and Rust. They're going to experiment to see if there is another combo that works, too.

That's what camp is for.

Sorry, Sullivan deserves absolutely no rope. He is the biggest reason this team is where it currently is.

 

[Pancakes]

Yeah that's old for a "we can fix him" player. That's pushin' 30, bud. Downright ancient in sports.

On this team he's practically a new born in age

1 year older than DOC at last check.

They're a couple of young pups indeed

 

[AuroraBorealis]

This is all just typical Sullivan. Puustinen looked good on the third line last season, so instead of building off of that, let's demote him and see how he reacts. O'Connor played well with Crosby late last season, so let's demote him and see how he reacts. Meanwhile, let's put reclamation projects in their spots.

It is early in camp and lots can still happen, but we have seen this movie before. We can argue that these players in particular (Puustinen and O'Connor) do not have great long-range upside compared to the likes of Beauvillier and Glass, but I just don't like the philosophy. There really is no hope for prospects in this organization under Sullivan. It won't be any different once Koivunen and Ponomarev will be deemed ready.

HOPEFULLY, McGroarty has enough going for him to sidetrack this nonsense. Otherwise, he will be just like the rest.

DOC will get his time with Sid. He's a PK'er, and Sullivan supports those guys above all others. He joined the special club now, and his minutes are soaring.

I can rattle off an extensive list of PK'ers who got way better usage than they deserved in Sullivan's time here.
It's the offensively-inclined bottom-sixers that don't PK who get shafted in Pittsburgh. He doesn't value them at all. And it cost him playoffs the last 2 years.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I don't see even remotely how playing a 25 year old Glass over a 25 year old Puustinen at all shows that there is "no hope for prospects on this team'. Or playing a 27 year old Beauvillier over a 26 year old O'Connor.

Their prospect pool has sucked for so long that people grasp at a guy who's literally UFA eligible after this year (O'Connor) as a "prospect not getting a chance".

1 year older than DOC at last check.

Yep they're effectively exactly a year apart, O'Connor was born June 9th 1998 while Beauvillier was June 8th 1997.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

On this team he's practically a new born in age

Wellllllllll yeahhhhhhhh lol

I'M about the median age for this team. And I'm old AF

 

[Pancakes]

I don't see even remotely how playing a 25 year old Glass over a 25 year old Puustinen at all shows that there is "no hope for prospects on this team'. Or playing a 27 year old Beauvillier over a 26 year old O'Connor.

Their prospect pool has sucked for so long that people grasp at a guy who's literally UFA eligible after this year (O'Connor) as a "prospect not getting a chance".



Yep they're effectively exactly a year apart, O'Connor was born June 9th 1998 while Beauvillier was June 8th 1997.

The bigger issue for prospects on this team than Sully's lines is that Dubas has a hundred million veteran bottom six options available for Sullivan to use.

When you stack the roster with that many vets it's gonna be hard for any young kid to stand out because Dubas and Sullivan are both gonna just look at that and say well we can put xyz player in the minors instead but this guy we gotta lose on waivers.

I wish Dubas had left more spots open for young players to actually grab.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

The bigger issue for prospects on this team than Sully's lines is that Dubas has a hundred million veteran bottom six options available for Sullivan to use.

When you stack the roster with that many vets it's gonna be hard for any young kid to stand out because Dubas and Sullivan are both gonna just look at that and say well we can put xyz player in the minors instead but this guy we gotta lose on waivers.

I wish Dubas had left more spots open for young players to actually grab.

Yeah but THIS year is gonna be different!

 

[Empoleon8771]

The bigger issue for prospects on this team than Sully's lines is that Dubas has a hundred million veteran bottom six options available for Sullivan to use.

When you stack the roster with that many vets it's gonna be hard for any young kid to stand out because Dubas and Sullivan are both gonna just look at that and say well we can put xyz player in the minors instead but this guy we gotta lose on waivers.

I wish Dubas had left more spots open for young players to actually grab.

I agree, but at the same point, more time in the AHL for these guys aren't going to really hurt them either. More than anything, I'd rather guy out some of these depth guys purely to have prospects (like Poulin) as extras. I don't mind having 12 veteran forwards lined up and no clear spots for young guys, but I don't know why they have like 17 veteran forwards. I don't mind going into next year with what it appears they'll be going into next year with (outside of Acciari on L4, makes no sense to me), but I don't also want more of these Nieto/Acciari/ect type of guys also sitting as extras too.

My hope is that by the end of the year, they're running with:

McGroarty-Crosby-Rust
Bunting-Malkin-Rakell
O'Connor-Glass-Puustinen
Lizotte-Ponomarev-Hayes
Acciari-Poulin

But I don't really mind them not starting the year with that. I don't mind giving McGroarty and Ponomarev half a season in the AHL until the Penguins trade Eller and Beauvillier at the deadline.

 

[Andy99]

I agree, but at the same point, more time in the AHL for these guys aren't going to really hurt them either. More than anything, I'd rather guy out some of these depth guys purely to have prospects (like Poulin) as extras. I don't mind having 12 veteran forwards lined up and no clear spots for young guys, but I don't know why they have like 17 veteran forwards. I don't mind going into next year with what it appears they'll be going into next year with (outside of Acciari on L4, makes no sense to me), but I don't also want more of these Nieto/Acciari/ect type of guys also sitting as extras too.

My hope is that by the end of the year, they're running with:

McGroarty-Crosby-Rust
Bunting-Malkin-Rakell
O'Connor-Glass-Puustinen
Lizotte-Ponomarev-Hayes
Acciari-Poulin

But I don't really mind them not starting the year with that.

Mcg-Sid-Rust
Bunting-G-Puusty
DOC-Broz-Rakell
Lizotte-Pono-Beau or Glass

 

[Honour Over Glory]

So the solution is Anthony Beauvillier?

O'Connor is a good defender, he should be first in line for that job IMHO.

There is no solution, the fact that you think there is one or needs to be a permanent one is the wrong way to go about this. The one thing Crosby is has the benefit of over everyone else is that he falls under Sullivan's idiotic "pairs" ideology. He has Rust. Rust will always he his solution to the RW.

So that leaves a rotation of Beauvillier, O'Connor, and Bunting with the way things are going right now. I feel like if Ponomarev keeps going with this, which I believe he will as he was banging on the door in Carolina if it weren't for an injury, Dubas is going to have to waive or move someone, most likely waive I'm going to wager. Because the Ponomarev-Malkin-Rakell line has gotten a lot of good looks and continues to look incredible as a trio, there's chemistry there that you'd have to be blind to ignore and not keep fanning the flames of. Koivunen also has looked good there but no one has looked as good on the left side with Geno and Rakell as Pono has.

Beauvillier in his rushes with Sid and Rust shows something Doc wasn't capable of showing, he is quick to the empty areas and doing things that got him a top line role on the Isles a few years back before he fell off. I'm sure Doc is still near the top of the list, but if Pono is making this team, it's likely with Geno and Rakell and that's a smart buffer for him with 2 veterans, which means Bunting is likely up with Sid & Rust and he looked fine there as well last season for his sample size. Which means Drew and AB are battling it out for the bottom 6, the ideal situation for both LW'ers imo.

I could see it shake out like this:

Bunting, Crosby, Rust
Ponomarev, Malkin, Rakell
O'Connor, Hayes, Puustinen
Beauvillier, Eller, Glass
Lizotte

Acciari - Odd man out
Puljujarvi - He would need to have the most insane stretch in camp to even be a consideration at this point.
Bemstrom - Why? Just, why? Literally everyone I've seen has been better than him. I like Andonovski's hustle more than anything by EB, same for Calvert and the smaller Hayes.

McGroarty - AHL where he should start.
Poulin - I don't know if he will do enough to supplant Eller or Hayes at C or O'Connor and Beauvllier at LW, he's been good in camp but he's put in a position where he really can't make the team unless Doc & Beau suddenly suffer injuries that will take a few months to recover from - The Pens are either losing him via waivers or Dubas sees it and moves him for even something as late as a 5th or 6th.

In any case...

Bemstrom is comical to watch, his hockey IQ is so bad, he will take a shot when he shouldn't, won't take a shot when he should, he stops during a play and just watches, then slowly figures out I should get closer to the net. I really don't know why he's even brought back to be honest, at this point even while Puljujarvi has been in the dog house for camp and scored a couple today to get him out of it a little, Bemstrom is the worst NHL experienced forward in this group and I am aware Acciari exists, unfortunately.

Puustinen has been showing everything he needs to show, his camp has been fine, it will really come down to bias with him or Glass imo, I don't think Glass has shown enough to really be an option on the RW, he to me, looks best at C even in the drills, he kind of just meanders on the wing, but as a C you see his natural instincts kick in where he's doing less thinking and reacting more. Eller btw, he just looks like he spent whatever he had left in the tank last season, he just is kind of there moving around, I'd be shocked if he even puts up half the numbers he did last season. I'd rather see Glass as the 4c over Eller.

 

[Jacob]

I hope Beauvillier does have a bounceback season because when on his game he could help anywhere.

Worst case scenario he’s a cheap and overqualified 4th liner.

 

[Jdodd]

I think Pono will go to the AHL and when or if we are out of playoff hunt we will trade Eller and Pono will come up and be your new 3C.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

The bigger issue for prospects on this team than Sully's lines is that Dubas has a hundred million veteran bottom six options available for Sullivan to use.

When you stack the roster with that many vets it's gonna be hard for any young kid to stand out because Dubas and Sullivan are both gonna just look at that and say well we can put xyz player in the minors instead but this guy we gotta lose on waivers.

They added vets, but seeing the camp - there's the obvious players that will be kept on but then you have a lot that are making some decisions tough. You keep some of these vets, you drastically minimize the scoring and last season this team scored at near a bottom 10 pace (from October 10th-March 22nd - before the 13 game streak, they were scoring at a laughably bad scoring rate given the way league scoring has gone up since 2017, to score at a 2.88 GF/G pace which is only saved by the last 13 that bumped it up to 3.09, is not a good trend and this team just lost Guentzel and is trying to out do that), that 13-15 game stretch doesn't mean shit as it was insanely unsustainable.

You're talking about scoring at a rate that the 2018-19 Tampa scored, or 2021-22 Panthers, or the 2022-23 Oilers - Not happening. The fact that this team needed the last 13 games where they gave up playing even their mediocre level of defense almost entirely, isn't good. They need to let in more offensive minded players into the roster over these grinder wankers that Sullivan loves so much he has to visit an ER for his longer than 4hr erection watching these no hand tossers play like he did back in the day and somehow think this team needs more of them.

If they want offense, they need to take a hard look at not ignoring players like Puustinen for players like Glass, Lizotte, etc. Because this team needs depth scoring like Geno needs rogaine. Since Sullivan is never going to tweak his system since its perfect in it's sticktoitiveness or some shit.

If we see Acciari, Bemstrom, etc on the roster, yikes.

There is no reality in which the Penguins are scoring at the rate they were in the final 13 games.

I wish Dubas had left more spots open for young players to actually grab.

I think Ponomarev is going to make it hard for them to not play him, he's been incredible and he was a player that last season a lot had listed as NHL ready so this tracks for him, at first it was this sign of "oh his injury set him back for making the team" but honestly at this stage you forget that was ever mentioned with how good he's been. He's taking a spot on this roster whether Sullivan likes it or not, it'll be interesting to see him get cut if he keeps this up and have Sullivan explain that rationale. There's nothing about Ponomarev that makes you think "yeah another year of the AHL should help" - He's at the stage where you want to see his game at the NHL level.

I think Pono will go to the AHL and when or if we are out of playoff hunt we will trade Eller and Pono will come up and be your new 3C.

If we ignore everything Ponomarev has done in camp, taking steps forward in his development, and last season - you might be right.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Glass and Puustinen are the same age. Glass is a former first round pick.
Glass has five inches on Puustinen.

Everyone should have to earn a spot, but if Glass gets the nod over someone like Puustinen, let's at least recognize the dude is still young and has some pedigree.

Cody Glass is also a bloke that had a 35pt break out year while getting a ton of top 6 minutes with players he should have produced more with, while Puustinen mostly played in the bottom 6 and produced at a very good rate per his P/60.

I'm all for young players doing well in a change of scenery type, but this isn't going to be a Jared McCann type of situation. Glass should be seen as a 3C solution, not RW. This is why I think playing him over Puustinen means he's playing in the wrong spot in the line-up to begin with, I'd rather see Hayes moved to wing than Glass.

Hayes actually prefers to play wing and wasn't moved to C more full-time until he was a Ranger under Quinn, then in Philly he was back to being a wing when he had his All-star season.

 

[Jacob]

Glass hasn’t ever been good on faceoffs. I could see him taking some draws on the right side but for the most part I see him competing for a RW spot.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I kind of wish they didn't hang on to Eller this long after signing Lizotte and trading for Glass and Hayes. Because if you aren't putting Hayes on wing where he'd be best, you're keeping him at C and Glass should be at C as well given he's best there and if Pono keeps this up, his spot with Geno looks to be a good look imo for keeping that 2nd like humming like it should unless they really just intend to go with Bunting no matter how well Pono plays, which makes this all for show and nothing really to be had, which definitely isn't a good look at all for a team in this situation.

Even moving Hayes to W, it just creates another mess, which means who is being moved down to the 4th line or if Pono does make it and the way he's going that's a real possibility, there's just entirely too many veterans on this team that most other fans would be like "eh whatever, they'll get waived or traded."

But we all know why that won't be the case on the Penguins.

 

[The Old Master]

With regards to DOC vs. Beauvillier on Sid's line, the one and only thing I prefer about DOC being there is at least the entire line isn't under 6'0. A concern I'd have with Sid/Rust/Beau is they'd be a line that has to generate offense off the rush because they'll be too easily boxed out from effective cycles.

I'm just glad our coach is trying deferent things instead of the same ol same-o

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I'm just glad our coach is trying deferent things instead of the same ol same-o

I find the irony in the size thing actually, this idiotic worry about height for a line.

Meanwhile Sid's best winger was a 5'11" winger that looks like he's still experiencing puberty for the 17th straight year that is now with Tampa, and then a 6' Kunitz and a barely 6'1" Dupuis oh and a 5'11" Rust.

Still funny we have a bunch of size queens around.

 

[The Old Master]

Yeah that's old for a "we can fix him" player. That's pushin' 30, bud. Downright ancient in sports.

hey, 30 is the new 20. and in my case ......... never mind. I'm going with just new.

 

[Fordy]

totally fine with giving beau a look, but i simply don’t give a shit about glass. if puusty is having a good camp, which is what everyone seems to be saying, i will be pretty annoyed if his spot is given away