GDT: 2024-2025 Training Camp

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I don't really worry much about near-40 Malkin not pouring it all out for like... cone drills or whatever.

He was at his usual conditioning camp with Maxim Ivanov in Florida last month so I doubt it's a matter of him being out of shape.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

I don't disagree but there's also an aspect of "what does XYZ line need?" that will help dictate that as well. If Puustinen was what Sid and Rust were missing, he'd have gone there. I don't "LW v RW" shit as we've seen that overridden in the past.

Yeah DOC's a better fit with Sid at this time because of the forechecking and retrievals. I'm saying Puustinen deserved more minutes and games with Malkin. Or at least an offensively engineered L3.

I just don't see evidence of Puustinen being "under used" in anyway. If you want to get off the third line and get called to the 2nd line, you need to produce. Puustinen has that added burden to bear because he doesn't PK, he's not overly defensive, he's not overly physical, and he was only okay on the PP. The way for him to assert himself is to put the puck in the net (or help do it).

He was definitely underused. He got 52 games when he should have gotten 82. We were using Acciari, Harkins, Nieto etc... A lot of trash. The bar wasn't high for improvement.

Hard to score much better than this in his position.
I'd also argue he was quite decent on PP1 and was removed from there unjustly. Our alternatives sucked more and our PP needed answers.
Sullivan should value producers like this more. It would have resulted in playoffs the last 2 years, if they had more of it.

To your point about season end totals, again I agree, and I think the best example of that is Rakell. He's not lighting up the scoresheet but regularly when watching replays we see his forechecking or playmaking create the play that puts the puck in the net. Sometimes he gets one on the scoresheet, sometimes not. Good example of why end of season stats don't always tell the full story. Puustinen COULD end up in that bucket but he needs to do it early in the year if he gets the spot. Unfortunately, I think Glass might get the call over him so when he does get the call, he needs to make it count.

Rakell is like a bare minimum producer in his career for what's required in the top-six. He's overrated ad overpaid, because of outlier years. I'd have zero problems moving him to L3 if Puustinen is outplaying him again.
Glass' career production is guttertrash. If he gets the spot based solely on his contract and draft position, that's gonna be annoying. Odds are Puustinen outplays him offensively.
Although Glass is very capable defensively, when he gets his shit together. That will hold a lot of weight with this coach. Plus he plays C.

 

[Jacob]

I think Beauvillier with Sid is overthinking it from a chemistry standpoint. Yeah he can get to loose pucks but so can DOC, and DOC can also cycle and get to the net. 50/50 pucks are important but not *that* important.

Beauvillier’s gonna have to score and not just flag down loose pucks.

 

[Ugene Magic]

I’m fine with Beauvillier on L1 because O’Connor on L3 is a big boost and there really isn’t anyone that I like better on L1 than Beauviller right now. It’s going to be McGroarty’s spot by the end of the year anyway, so I’m fine with Beauvillier to start.

Man, you got to pick a lane and stick to it.

No wonder your lineups have no SNOWBALLS of a chance. Trying to please everyone and throw everything at the wall and pray it sticks...



This is camp, guys are gonna be used here or there.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

I don't really worry much about near-40 Malkin not pouring it all out for like... cone drills or whatever.

He was at his usual conditioning camp with Maxim Ivanov in Florida last month so I doubt it's a matter of him being out of shape.

It's not. He's come to camp toned af.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Yeah unless they flash immediate chemistry/production I don't see what Kingerski is getting all excited about. I don't know why you wouldn't just go with what was working first then assess from there. Beauvillier is an aging reclamation project at this point and what you are trying to reclaim wasn't ever even that good.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Puljujarvi woke up today and realized he needed to show more and scored a couple of goals for a Team 1 win.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

It's not. He's come to camp toned af.

I think it's a combination of age, blown knees, correctly assessing that it's not worth getting all sweaty over training camp and the fact that the way Malkin moves out on the ice has always lended itself to... various... interpretations depending on who is watching.

But yeah I'm sure his wind is fine.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Yeah unless they flash immediate chemistry/production I don't see what Kingerski is getting all excited about. I don't know why you wouldn't just go with what was working first then assess from there. Beauvillier is an aging reclamation project at this point and what you are trying to reclaim wasn't ever even that good.

To be fair, what Beauvillier was from 2017-2023 was better than anything O'Connor has shown in his career.

He really just had a bad 2023-2024, he had 42 points in 82 games in 2022-2023.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

To be fair, what Beauvillier was from 2017-2023 was better than anything O'Connor has shown in his career.

He really just had a bad 2023-2024, he had 42 points in 82 games in 2022-2023.

Certainly not an awful player but I don't see any reason to get cute re: Crosby's line. But I doubt they are beyond just testing combinations. Sullivan has always done the "one guy who is definitely here and one guy to try" thing at training camp AFAIK.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

If Pono isn't on the opening night roster if he keeps this up, I'd like to know the rationale by the irrational wank bucket Sullivan.

That lad showed up to make the team and he isn't playing around.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

I think it's a combination of age, blown knees, correctly assessing that it's not worth getting all sweaty over training camp and the fact that the way Malkin moves out on the ice has always lended itself to... various... interpretations depending on who is watching.

It's like a back-to-back situation. Hard to muster the energy. This is the 3rd consecutive day of drills and scrimmages.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

To be fair, what Beauvillier was from 2017-2023 was better than anything O'Connor has shown in his career.

He really just had a bad 2023-2024, he had 42 points in 82 games in 2022-2023.

This is where I think he gets a shot with Sid to start the year because of his ability to play with top line talent in his career and yeah he is inconsistent but he's already proven more and I think with how this coaching staff thinks, it's a realistic possibility.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

It's like a back-to-back situation. Hard to muster the energy. This is the 3rd consecutive day of drills and scrimmages.

True. Even for young guys. Good point.

He seemed feisty enough in scrimmage yesterday lol

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I don't really worry much about near-40 Malkin not pouring it all out for like... cone drills or whatever.

He was at his usual conditioning camp with Maxim Ivanov in Florida last month so I doubt it's a matter of him being out of shape.

Geno turns the jets on in scrimmages, but otherwise he knows for him the camp is just to find his timing and see how he does with new line choices. But him and Rakell look like they're on the same page and so far, Pono looks like the best option there with them.

Poor Bunting, blokes forgetting he exists. Lol

 

[SEALBound]

Yeah DOC's a better fit with Sid at this time because of the forechecking and retrievals. I'm saying Puustinen deserved more minutes and games with Malkin. Or at least an offensively engineered L3.

He was definitely underused. He got 52 games when he should have gotten 82. We were using Acciari, Harkins, Nieto etc... A lot of trash. The bar wasn't high for improvement.

View attachment 908259

Hard to score much better than this in his position.
I'd also argue he was quite decent on PP1 and was removed from there unjustly. Our alternatives sucked more and our PP needed answers.
Sullivan should value producers like this more. It would have resulted in playoffs the last 2 years, if they had more of it.


Rakell is like a bare minimum producer in his career for what's required in the top-six. He's overrated ad overpaid, because of outlier years. I'd have zero problems moving him to L3 if Puustinen is outplaying him again.
Glass' career production is guttertrash. If he gets the spot based solely on his contract and draft position, that's gonna be annoying. Odds are Puustinen outplays him offensively.
Although Glass is very capable defensively, when he gets his shit together. That will hold a lot of weight with this coach. Plus he plays C.

And yet, Rakell was a staple on Malkin's lines because he provides a higher level of compete, physicality, forechecking, etc. All things I said Puustinen was light on. There's more that goes into than just scoring. If scoring is the only you can bring, you need to bring it at a level that overshadows the other positive qualities a guy like Rakell brings. I'm not going to agree with the premise the Puusitnen, in any way, shape, or form deserved to be on the 2nd line with Malkin over Rakell. He didn't. Rakell brought what that line needed more than Puustinen. Same thing with DOC later in the year.

Puustinen might be this year's Zohorna when a random stat may look nice and people gush about him but the eye test shows a lot of "meh".

 

[Empoleon8771]

Certainly not an awful player but I don't see any reason to get cute re: Crosby's line. But I doubt they are beyond just testing combinations. Sullivan has always done the "one guy who is definitely here and one guy to try" thing at training camp AFAIK.

With how massively ERod boomed when he was the same age as Beauvillier, I don't see the risk in trying it out with Beauvillier now. ERod was coming off a horrendous year when the Penguins acquired him (9 points in 38 games with the Sabres) and really boomed for the Penguins after, I don't think it's a stretch to say that Beauvillier can have that kind of resurgence.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I really wish this board had a mute option of a day, a week, or a year like whatsapp.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Geno turns the jets on in scrimmages, but otherwise he knows for him the camp is just to find his timing and see how he does with new line choices. But him and Rakell look like they're on the same page and so far, Pono looks like the best option there with them.

Poor Bunting, blokes forgetting he exists. Lol

I think so long as Bunting maintains MOST of the form he found here last season you can plug and play him anywhere in the top 9. Pono might work well with them but I'd prefer to keep him at center, I think. I have no faith in the Raks/Malkin combo but we'll see.

With how massively ERod boomed when he was the same age as Beauvillier, I don't see the risk in trying it out with Beauvillier now. ERod was coming off a horrendous year when the Penguins acquired him (9 points in 38 games with the Sabres) and really boomed for the Penguins after, I don't think it's a stretch to say that Beauvillier can have that kind of resurgence.

Eh I dunno. Maybe. I think it's a bit of a shame we are discussing DOC versus Beau next to Sid Crosby at his age at all. But that's not material to this discussion, I suppose.

 

[Gurglesons]

I could easily see Beau putting up 20+ and 50+ with Sid tbh.

Put up 50 pt pace when he first got to Vancouver.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

It's less about Doc than it is giving players like Glass a spot over him on the right side.

Glass and Puustinen are the same age. Glass is a former first round pick.
Glass has five inches on Puustinen.

Everyone should have to earn a spot, but if Glass gets the nod over someone like Puustinen, let's at least recognize the dude is still young and has some pedigree.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

And yet, Rakell was a staple on Malkin's lines because he provides a higher level of compete, physicality, forechecking, etc. All things I said Puustinen was light on. There's more that goes into than just scoring. If scoring is the only you can bring, you need to bring it at a level that overshadows the other positive qualities a guy like Rakell brings. I'm not going to agree with the premise the Puusitnen, in any way, shape, or form deserved to be on the 2nd line with Malkin over Rakell. He didn't. Rakell brought what that line needed more than Puustinen. Same thing with DOC later in the year.

Puustinen might be this year's Zohorna when a random stat may look nice and people gush about him but the eye test shows a lot of "meh".

Telling me how Sullivan used someone means nothing to me. It's not an indication of anything intelligent by default.
He's a washed coach, and frequently makes stupid choices. That's why the team missed the playoffs the last 2 years.

Rakell was awful last year outside of the Bunting segment. He's never worked with Malkin until that last 20-game stretch, and that's only because of Bunting's impact. He's also bad defensively.
He's fairly good on the wall in battles, but he's also slow to getting there. Since the Pens constantly dump and chase, they need speed with retrievals from someone.
If he reverts to his usual play with Malkin, there's a pretty strong argument to be made that he'd be better used with Hayes or Eller. Which would then open up a spot on RW for a scorer.

It's not a random stat. It's scoring relative to minutes. It's a core requirement for players relied on to do that.
Never understood the scorn for it, but it's unwarranted. It matters, no matter how much people meme here.

When the Pens won the division, they had many players outperforming expectations in this "random stat".

 

[Jag68Sid87]

In games that mattered? That line was a disaster defensively. It did nothing you want to see out of a potential top line. Did it produce? Sure, but it did absolutely nothing defensively that made you think the line would dominate and Doc was mostly just a recipient of strong play by Sid and Rust, offensively.

So the solution is Anthony Beauvillier?

O'Connor is a good defender, he should be first in line for that job IMHO.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

What are you talking about?

Jake was injured and traded away. Sid has no powers over guys re-signing with the team. Yeah, he was bummed out, and his little hissy fit probably cost them a playoff birth. Then he took off on a tear.

So I don't know what you are goin' on about.

You are saying what I am saying.

 

[Pancakes]

Yeah unless they flash immediate chemistry/production I don't see what Kingerski is getting all excited about. I don't know why you wouldn't just go with what was working first then assess from there. Beauvillier is an aging reclamation project at this point and what you are trying to reclaim wasn't ever even that good.

Aging? He's 27.