GDT: 2024-2025 Training Camp

[Empoleon8771]

Not really

Matter in the context of seeing where Ponomarev and Poulin are right now as players. Having an apples to apples comparison of them playing right now against similar competition will give insight to who is better right now.

 

[The Old Master]

• Malkin comes flying up the right wing and tries taking a shot on Murashov but Graves drops and blocks the shot. Then Malkin gets another shot at it and beats Murashov, and yelled "YEAH!" like this is a serious game. It's tied, 2-2.

you don't get to where these guys are without being ultra completive.

 

[Darren McCord]

I think Puustinen's issue is that he just wouldn't be a fit on L4, but yeah I wouldn't argue that Ponomarev is better than Puustinen yet. I think Puustinen is battling Glass for the 3rd line RW spot personally.

I just have seen absolutely nothing from Poulin, whether it be based on the eye test in a small sample size or stats in both the NHL and AHL, that makes me think Poulin should be above Ponomarev. And including comments from Canes fans about Ponomarev, who were extremely complementary of his pre-season performance in 2023 (which I have not seen from Poulin), and it's even more clear to me.

Now the actual pre-season games matter and will determine a lot, I just don't see any basis right now to put Poulin over Ponomarev on the depth chart.

Puustinen should be on line 3 and glass on line 4.

Ponomarev: 86 points in 120 AHL games
Poulin: 72 points in 128 AHL games

That is not so far off that I would start Pono over Poulin. Pono looked much worse than Poulin with wbs last year. Give Poulin a 10 game stint and see how Pono fairs in the AHL.

You can always waive poulin later and call up Pono. You can't do the reverse if Poulin is claimed. Also I want some size in the bottom 6. Pono is just another small forward.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Puustinen should be on line 3 and glass on line 4.

Ponomarev: 86 points in 120 AHL games
Poulin: 72 points in 128 AHL games

That is not so far off that I would start Pono over Poulin. Pono looked much worse than Poulin with wbs last year. Give Poulin a 10 game stint and see how Pono fairs in the AHL.

You can always waive poulin later and call up Pono. Also I want some size in the bottom 6. Pono is just another small forward.

Ponomarev played 4 games with WBS last year.

But yeah, if you have Puustinen on L3 and Glass on L4, I'm fine with Ponomarev starting in WBS. There's no use in him sitting as a healthy scratch. I just see literally nothing from Poulin that makes me think "he deserves a 10 game stint". Nothing about him looked NHL caliber when he played last year. If you want size in the bottom-6, I think giving Glass a look makes a lot more sense.

 

[Darren McCord]

Ponomarev played 4 games with WBS last year.

But yeah, if you have Puustinen on L3 and Glass on L4, I'm fine with Ponomarev starting in WBS. There's no use in him sitting as a healthy scratch. I just see literally nothing from Poulin that makes me think "he deserves a 10 game stint". Nothing about him looked NHL caliber when he played last year. If you want size in the bottom-6, I think giving Glass a look makes a lot more sense.

You mean in the total of 20 min of ice time on line 4 he got in 3 games.

Pono got over twice as much time in WBS as Poulin got in the NHL. So if I can't say he didn't look great you can't say Poulin didn't,.

But the point is Pono has done nothing with this org "yet" for him to have a spot ahead of him.

And Poulin last 15 games in the AHL he had 5g and 8A
Pono's last 15 games in the AHL he had 1g and 1A

Pono is just a shiny new toy but has done nothing to warrant jumping Poulin or Puustinen or Puljujarvi for that matter.

Also I think Pono might have a better upside right now but is not the better player right now.

 

[Gurglesons]

Puustinen should be on line 3 and glass on line 4.

Ponomarev: 86 points in 120 AHL games
Poulin: 72 points in 128 AHL games

That is not so far off that I would start Pono over Poulin. Pono looked much worse than Poulin with wbs last year. Give Poulin a 10 game stint and see how Pono fairs in the AHL.

You can always waive poulin later and call up Pono. You can't do the reverse if Poulin is claimed. Also I want some size in the bottom 6. Pono is just another small forward.

Good point.

 

[Ryder71]

Pono looked worse because he was coming off at a cataclysmic injury, context is important, Poulin NEVER looked any good, he's a failure!

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

We could just dump Eller for a 5th and waive Acciari or something. Neither are any sort of loss, and certainly not make-or-break for a team like this.

Not that I think guys like Pono, Poulin, Puustinen, etc. are gonna come in and kill it as full time NHLers, but like, you're not losing a damn thing by getting rid of two (or more lol) vets from this bottom-6.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1836808734992941440

I don't know why, but I didn't realize Geno was the oldest guy on the team now... That makes me feel old too man.

 

[steelcityassault]

More camp takeaways from day 1 and 2..

Pickering was completely not noticeable. Thought he was hurt and not participating but there he was. I don't know if that's good in a Rob Scuderi type-way? Probably not?

Aho / Ludvig definitely stood out over St. Ivany and Shea on the back end. Aho was actually really impressive and can really feather some passes

Bemstrom is a weird player. Does everything just good enough but doesn't stand out if there's a numbers game to me. He was decent to good

De St. Phalle can really shoot the puck for a smaller dude

Lars Eller is impressive, same with Kevin Hayes both so strong on the puck and good enough to be 'NHL' at everything

Avery Hayes should get a real contract. Impressed with his all around physical game , and his shot

Koivunen got into it with Crosby on the wall who kind of got the better of Sid and Sid didn't like it and put him in a headlock lol. Those Fins are built different I guess

Blake Lizotte is a bonafide impressive NHL'er. Zipping up the ice, absolutely flying and buzzing around. Sniping Jarry and the kid goalies at will too

McGroat looked okay on day 2, maybe a bit overwhelmed. Wasn't as close to physical as day 1. He was with O'Connor and Poulin, who looked good on both days to me. Which probably means he's headed right to a waiver claim.

Pulijarvi stinks. Waive bye bye, tongue guy

 

[McGroarty2]

my current prediction based in nothing more than reading what those who have seen camp have posted...

O'Connor-Crosby-Rust
Beauvillier-Malkin-Rakell
Bunting-Eller-Glass
Hayes-Acciari-Lizotte
Poulin Puustinen

Pettersson-Karlsson
Grzelcyk-Letang
Graves-Ludvig
Aho

Jarry-Nedjelkovic

Let the young guys get seasoned in WBS and call up mid season.

 

[Empoleon8771]

We could just dump Eller for a 5th and waive Acciari or something. Neither are any sort of loss, and certainly not make-or-break for a team like this.

Not that I think guys like Pono, Poulin, Puustinen, etc. are gonna come in and kill it as full time NHLers, but like, you're not losing a damn thing by getting rid of two (or more lol) vets from this bottom-6.

I'm all supportive of doing that, has anyone really argued against that?

 

[Empoleon8771]

More camp takeaways from day 1 and 2..

Pickering was completely not noticeable. Thought he was hurt and not participating but there he was. I don't know if that's good in a Rob Scuderi type-way? Probably not?

Aho / Ludvig definitely stood out over St. Ivany and Shea on the back end. Aho was actually really impressive and can really feather some passes

Bemstrom is a weird player. Does everything just good enough but doesn't stand out if there's a numbers game to me. He was decent to good

De St. Phalle can really shoot the puck for a smaller dude

Lars Eller is impressive, same with Kevin Hayes both so strong on the puck and good enough to be 'NHL' at everything

Avery Hayes should get a real contract. Impressed with his all around physical game , and his shot

Koivunen got into it with Crosby on the wall who kind of got the better of Sid and Sid didn't like it and put him in a headlock lol. Those Fins are built different I guess

Blake Lizotte is a bonafide impressive NHL'er. Zipping up the ice, absolutely flying and buzzing around. Sniping Jarry and the kid goalies at will too

McGroat looked okay on day 2, maybe a bit overwhelmed. Wasn't as close to physical as day 1. He was with O'Connor and Poulin, who looked good on both days to me. Which probably means he's headed right to a waiver claim.

Pulijarvi stinks. Waive bye bye, tongue guy

That's really good to hear Eller, Hayes and Lizotte look good. I loved the Lizotte addition and like Eller, but I was absolutely super down on Hayes being anything useful for this team. If he ends up being an effective bottom-6 player, I'd be extremely happy with it.

If they can tell Acciari to f*** off, I actually like their bottom-6 with:

O'Connor-Eller-Glass
Lizotte-Poulin/Ponomarev-Hayes

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I'm all supportive of doing that, has anyone really argued against that?

I'm more venting than anything. But as for the last part; kinda? The guys who run the team.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Why would you care about "bad allocation of cap" by playing a player in an appropriate role? Hayes shouldn't be in their top-9 because he's probably not one of their 9 best forwards.

Yeah, I couldn't disagree more.

Crosby
Malkin
Rust
Rakell
Bunting
Eller
Hayes
O'Connor
Puustinen

I don't know whom you have above him, but that's my top nine unless someone beats Puus out of a top nine role. He very much should be in the top 9.

And I'll tell you this, ever since they have allocated serious cap to the 4th line without it being a top six forward they have failed miserably. Not allocating to upgrading the top 9 is putting all the bearing weight back on Sid and Geno's shoulders, squarely.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Yeah, I couldn't disagree more.

Crosby
Malkin
Rust
Rakell
Bunting
Eller
Hayes
O'Connor
Puustinen

I don't know whom you have above him, but that's my top nine unless someone beats Puus out of a top nine role. He very much should be in the top 9.

And I'll tell you this, ever since they have allocated serious cap to the 4th line without it being a top six forward they have failed miserably. Not allocating to upgrading the top 9 is putting all the bearing weight back on Sid and Geno's shoulders, squarely.

This team took on Hayes because they were paid to take on Hayes, nothing more. Trying to make it a money thing or "spending money on a 4th line without it being a top-6 forward has failed miserably" shows a fundamental misunderstanding for why the Hayes trade happened.

Hayes wasn't brought in as a positive addition, they were paid to take him on. Now it's just about finding a spot where he can contribute the most, regardless of what money Hayes makes.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

You mean in the total of 20 min of ice time on line 4 he got in 3 games.

Pono got over twice as much time in WBS as Poulin got in the NHL. So if I can't say he didn't look great you can't say Poulin didn't,.

But the point is Pono has done nothing with this org "yet" for him to have a spot ahead of him.

And Poulin last 15 games in the AHL he had 5g and 8A
Pono's last 15 games in the AHL he had 1g and 1A

Pono is just a shiny new toy but has done nothing to warrant jumping Poulin or Puustinen or Puljujarvi for that matter.

Also I think Pono might have a better upside right now but is not the better player right now.

I think some folks want to see the Carolina prospects get a shot because it justifies that that was a good trade by Dubas.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think some folks want to see the Carolina prospects get a shot because it justifies that that was a good trade by Dubas.

That has literally zero to do with the discussion.

The reason I want to see Ponomarev was because he was dominant at the rookie tournament, he was probably their best forward overall at the tournament.

 

[Ugene Magic]

This team took on Hayes because they were paid to take on Hayes, nothing more. Trying to make it a money thing or "spending money on a 4th line without it being a top-6 forward has failed miserably" shows a fundamental misunderstanding for why the Hayes trade happened.

Hayes wasn't brought in as a positive addition, they were paid to take him on. Now it's just about finding a spot where he can contribute the most, regardless of what money Hayes makes.

He had his cap retained on 50% from the Flyers to the Blues. The Pens got him and a 2nd for future considerations. His 3.571 cap hit is just fine for who he is, and it made room for them( Blues) to go after Broberg and Holloway.

They were paid for the Blue's benefit.

That doesn't make Hayes a 4th liner.

Edit: Ever since they have allocated 5.0 to 7.0 into the 4th line it hasn't come to bare fruit on the ice.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I couldn't really give a shit less about Jake or the trade tbh. I want to see the team play younger guys and I want fewer of the Acciari-esque vets around.

 

[Sorry]

I think Hayes could surprise some people. He has great size, is good on draws, and can bring a little bit of offense. You would like see more of a physical and gritty game from a player of his size but he's an upgrade from Carter as a bottom six center, that's for sure.

 

[Gurglesons]

I think Hayes could surprise some people. He has great size, is good on draws, and can bring a little bit of offense. You would like see more of a physical and gritty game from a player of his size but he's an upgrade from Carter as a bottom six center, that's for sure.

Won't surprise me. But, I think he's Jeff Carter 2.0.

 

[Empoleon8771]

He had his cap retained on 50% from the Flyers to the Blues. The Pens got him and a 2nd for future considerations. His 3.571 cap hit is just fine for who he is, and it made room for them( Blues) to go after Broberg and Holloway.

They were paid for the Blue's benefit.

That doesn't make Hayes a 4th liner.

Edit: Ever since they have allocated 5.0 to 7.0 into the 4th line it hasn't come to bare fruit on the ice.

What makes Hayes a 4th liner is that he's not very good. His salary is totally irrelevant of the caliber of player he is.

I couldn't really give a shit less about Jake or the trade tbh. I want to see the team play younger guys and I want fewer of the Acciari-esque vets around.

It's funny that this website has screamed for years about wanting to play more young players in the bottom-6, but wanting to play a specific young player in this case is only because "it makes the Guentzel trade look better for Dubas".

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Like I said yesterday... it would sure be neat if a players that still has waiver options actually made the team after a great camp. I don't care who it is. But that seems like a pretty big ask for this team considering the sheer amount of vet depth forwards hangin' around.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Steelcitys write up reminds me that when you go to NHL games you very quickly realize the Hayes and Ellers of the world are unremarkable NHLers past their prime, and yet- they still pop so much more than the Jansen Harkins of the world who are 10 years younger. Typically not hard to tell who the JAGs are next to NHLers

Was the case last year with Jeff Carter. Remember being like “yeah this guy does stink but I can tell he was a dude in his day”

 

[Freeptop]

The last thing this team should be worried about is the cap hit of each line. At this point with this roster, I cannot think of a worse metric to use to justify line combinations.

If Sullivan had a crystal ball and saw that making Crosby 4C and Malkin 2RD with Zam Plante 1G would win us a Stanley Cup, would ANYONE argue with that? Imagine coming out against that saying "Sid makes too much to be 4C, therefore I'd rather lose". JFC.

Totally agree with this. Cap hits are for GMs to worry about, not the coach. Putting the 6M cap hit (for the Pens) Kessel on the third line while entry-level contracts were playing with Sid wasn't such a bad thing in 2016, after all.