Rumor: 2024-2025 Trade Rumors and Free Agency Talk | The Slow Crawl to the Season

[expatriatedtexan]

Most depth is just depth.

Players that passed through our system like Sherwood and Greer are decent bottom 6ers now, but it took them quite a few years to put it together. The depth you really want to develop are the ones that bring more value than they're worth. I don't know if we have anyone like that in our system at the moment.

Did it really take time for them to get there or did it a simply take a coach who gave enough of a shit to work with them?

Those two remind me a bit of Johnny B. Guys that all showed traits of being NHLrs but our head coach simply had no f***ing time to offer them. Zadorov actually can get into this category as well, considering how much Sittler got out of him.

 

[PAZ]

Did it really take time for them to get there or did it a simply take a coach who gave enough of a shit to work with them?

Those two remind me a bit of Johnny B. Guys that all showed traits of being NHLrs but our head coach simply had no f***ing time to offer them. Zadorov actually can get into this category as well, considering how much Sittler got out of him.

Sherwood and Greer have both went through 5 different orgs before finding a spot. They're 28 and 29 respectively. I'm glad they're finding their footing, but at a certain point both of a player and the org want to move on.

 

[Avs9296]

Oh good, we're getting Puljujärvi and Toews.

They'll make up 2/3rds of an excellent 5th line for us!

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

Sherwood and Greer have both went through 5 different orgs before finding a spot. They're 28 and 29 respectively. I'm glad they're finding their footing, but at a certain point both of a player and the org want to move on.

Sometimes it just doesn't work out. I had some curiosity about Zdeno Chara and his time in NYI, and I found an old HF thread from Isles fans that pretty consistently mentioned that no one thought he'd turn out the way he did. Sometimes it just takes a few changes before things click.

 

[LOFIN]

 

[expatriatedtexan]

Sherwood and Greer have both went through 5 different orgs before finding a spot. They're 28 and 29 respectively. I'm glad they're finding their footing, but at a certain point both of a player and the org want to move on.

My point is that I think players are more likely to want to move on than the org and for good reason. We constantly cockblock any bottom players with vets making minimum salary.

At some point, somebody has to train the god-damned vets we are trying like hell to plug into our roster every f***ing year. It just seems like if we actually gave a shit we could develop these players ourselves and save a lot of headache in the process

. Prischepov is the perfect example. This kid is perfectly fine to be playing in the NHL on the 4th line. But the Avs are going to try and make a second liner out of him. Yes, he may be doing great in the AHL, but...

When he gets up to the NHL though and is immediately stuck on the 4th line and has to buy into an NHL bottom six role, you'll see most of that offense shrink up because that's not the role of a bottom six forward in the NHL. He'll still get his rushes and breaks...but he was already getting those!!!! If we are trying to develop anything within his game it should be his motor and his defense... not offense.

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

They'll make up 2/3rds of an excellent 5th line for us!

Toews as our 4C, Puljuju as a 6F (Finn)

Drouin-MacKinnon-Rantanen
Colton-Mittelstadt-Nichushkin
Lehkonen-Parssinen-Puljujarvi
Kiviranta-Toews-Innala
Wood is just on the bench comforting Colton after shifts.

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

Feels like Miller for Mitts is going to happen anytime now.

 

[dahrougem2]

I understand what you are saying. I even mentioned it might be in his best interest to play more minutes in the AHL to get whatever he can out of his development runway as he's only 20.

Here are a few questions I'd like answered from those still advising more development for Nikita:
1. What line do you see him playing on in the NHL?
2. What prevents him from developing in that role while playing in the NHL?
3. What happens if you try to take an offensive bottom six forward and convince him he's a top six offensive forward only to put him where he belongs (4th line) when he finally makes the NHL?
4. What makes you think Aaron can untap his potential while Jared can't? Why does he have to go to an AHL coach to be developed? Look out how our last AHL coach is doing in the NHL. Is this really the development plan/path that is the best for us to use? I think we could do better and this is a whole other conversation but for the time being, I'd rather have our better prospects actually in the NHL and getting trained on NHL play, rather than in the AHL learning how to dominate AHL play. I just think playing the majority of the season as a bottom sixer with actual NHL coaching and then becoming a wildcard for the playoffs after being bumped out at the deadline would provide much greater experience and development than going to the AHL, learning how to dominate the AHL according to Schneekloth.

I think the Avs should've kept him up longer. He was clearly better than others that were playing. How can you say you are trying to win, when you aren't icing your best possible team? And yes...for the Avs, a team that is CONSTANTLY bitching about lack of depth production, sending Prischepov down over others was weakened the team considerably.


Because those 20 minutes in the AHL does nothing for this current NHL team where he was better than others that were getting ice time ahead of him.

Also...do you really believe Nikita is an NHL top six forward? If so, then I get it. But if you are like me, and believe he is a bottom six forward, you are wasting time trying to develop him into something he isn't while also robbing yourself of the player he actually is.

Look at LOC. At age 20 he was putting up 42 points for the Eagles. It takes time.

Let Prischepov develop in the minors. Sitting on the bench at the NHL level does not help

 

[Mighty Makar]

Feels like Miller for Mitts is going to happen anytime now.

That would be f***en great, but wishful thinking.

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

That would be f***en great, but wishful thinking.

It would be so funny, just two absolute maniacs in Nate and JT

 

[sethro109]

Miller seems to cause rifts wherever he goes. We just got rid of one headache, let's not get another.

 

[LOFIN]

Miller seems to cause rifts wherever he goes. We just got rid of one headache, let's not get another.

I wasn't posting this because I thought we should go get him, no way lol. This thread also acts as a league general trades/contracts news thread for us.

 

[sethro109]

I wasn't posting this because I thought we should go get him, no way lol. This thread also acts as a league general trades/contracts news thread for us.

I'm was mostly replying to the two posts before mine.

 

[RoyIsALegend]

Toews as our 4C, Puljuju as a 6F (Finn)

Drouin-MacKinnon-Rantanen
Colton-Mittelstadt-Nichushkin
Lehkonen-Parssinen-Puljujarvi
Kiviranta-Toews-Innala
Wood is just on the bench comforting Colton after shifts.

No LOC = no fun.

 

[Cypher]

I have a feeling that in 2019 you'd be saying Devon Toews is not an NHL player simply because he'd been in the AHL up until that point. You know that thing about defensemen not figuring things out until about game 300? Middleton has played 345 pro games at this point. I'm basing my opinion on the 9 games he's played with the Avs this season, and in that time period, he's shown me that he's much better than Calvin de Haan, and that was while playing the right side as a lefty (and paired with CDH as well!). There's obviously nothing flashy about his game, and the offense isn't there, but he can clear the front of the net, intimidate opponents, make a decent first pass, and skate at least as well as CDH. Meanwhile, CDH appears prone to making absolutely terrible defensive reads despite him being a veteran NHLer. He's got a bit more offense to him, but nothing to earn him a roster spot. Kylington meanwhile looked great, but I don't think there's a spot for him with Makar, Toews, Girard, Manson, and Malinksi all able to move the puck well. What the team needs is a physical, reliable player to pair with Malinksi and kill penalties. That's Middleton until they can find someone better.

While I agree that the Avs should explore a trade for a better LD, until that point, they should see if Middleton can keep improving with more time on the roster. It would be nice to know if they can use him to replace some of what Manson brings long-term if there's another injury or they need to trade him.

Toews had played 116 games and averaged 20:31 TOI his last season on the Islanders. But ya, definitely comparable to Middleton (3 career games (4 years ago) and averaged 9:18 TOI during those 3 games).

Middleton is nothing but waiver fodder material. He's a just a copy of McDermid (when he use to play only D). He's not a fit for the Avs style of play.

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

No LOC = no fun.

He was sacrificed to the hockey gods, as we can't have all of the ice things.

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

Miller seems to cause rifts wherever he goes. We just got rid of one headache, let's not get another.

My prediction is that we acquire him, win two cups, but by the end of that everyone hates each other so much that Cale has declared he's going back to Calgary, Nate wants to joint Pittsburgh, Rantanen has smoked so much he is now a chimney, and Lehkonen's legs have fallen off due to his constant skating.

 

[RoyIsALegend]

He was sacrificed to the hockey gods, as we can't have all of the ice things.

Also, good luck wrestling Parker Kelly away from Bednar.

He’s currently our 3C, #1 PK forward, and Bednar trusts him in all three zones.

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

Also, good luck wrestling Parker Kelly away from Bednar.

He’s currently our 3C, #1 PK forward, and Bednar trusts him in all three zones.

He actually retired from hockey and started an acting career as Kelly Parker.

 

[hockeyfish]

Also, good luck wrestling Parker Kelly away from Bednar.

He’s currently our 3C, #1 PK forward, and Bednar trusts him in all three zones.

He's been shockingly good.

 

[expatriatedtexan]

Look at LOC. At age 20 he was putting up 42 points for the Eagles. It takes time.

Let Prischepov develop in the minors. Sitting on the bench at the NHL level does not help

LOC couldn't play defensively the way it took to stay up on the 4th line that season either. Prischepov has not shown that weakness.

Every freaking game he's played, he's flashed positively. Sticking him in the AHL can also KILL his creativity by forcing him to play with players who can't do anything with the passes he does make.

I'm sorry, he's a bottom six forward and we are screwing him up by trying to tell him he's something other than that, spending time on trying to make him something other than that, and then you have to add the HUGE sunken value of not having had his better defensive and offensive play on the NHL team vs Givani "the Italian soup sandwhich specialist" Smith and Chris "never heard" Wagner.

If we are saying he has to be in the AHL to develop, I'm just confused. I know Bednar has lasted a damn long time in this run with us, but I refuse to believe that he is incapable of coaching and developing players. I'm sure he would prefer to have players show up already complete and ready to be trusted... but his title involves the word "coach" and I believe that means someone whose job it is to teach people to improve at a sport, skill or subject.

Simple question... what makes people think Bednar is a good coach vs he has a team that would be impossible to lose for a decade straight with? Yes, the Avalanche won a Stanley Cup. But he's been HC for a decade and we've won once...with this core.

Shit, this looks like I'm almost manic about this. I'm really not, I just completely don't understand the thought process and "development" doesn't really ring true considering the Avs track record at that shit.

Prischepov may or may not be the difference in a Stanely Cup; but history is filled with players who made their biggest contributions on the biggest stage. A very simple defensive read, well executed can very much be the difference in a Championship. It's just that I think Nikita's path to sustained success is more along the lines of a hard working Hinote/Podein/McClement rather than the talent drifitng Tanguay/Wolski/Duchene and pretty much everything we do to the contrary is just robbing the Avs of the player he is.

 

[dahrougem2]

LOC couldn't play defensively the way it took to stay up on the 4th line that season either. Prischepov has not shown that weakness.

Every freaking game he's played, he's flashed positively. Sticking him in the AHL can also KILL his creativity by forcing him to play with players who can't do anything with the passes he does make.

I'm sorry, he's a bottom six forward and we are screwing him up by trying to tell him he's something other than that, spending time on trying to make him something other than that, and then you have to add the HUGE sunken value of not having had his better defensive and offensive play on the NHL team vs Givani "the Italian soup sandwhich specialist" Smith and Chris "never heard" Wagner.

If we are saying he has to be in the AHL to develop, I'm just confused. I know Bednar has lasted a damn long time in this run with us, but I refuse to believe that he is incapable of coaching and developing players. I'm sure he would prefer to have players show up already complete and ready to be trusted... but his title involves the word "coach" and I believe that means someone whose job it is to teach people to improve at a sport, skill or subject.

Simple question... what makes people think Bednar is a good coach vs he has a team that would be impossible to lose for a decade straight with? Yes, the Avalanche won a Stanley Cup. But he's been HC for a decade and we've won once...with this core.

Why is it so hard to come to grips with the Avs being patient with a 20 year old kid they just drafted playing top six minutes in the AHL and being allowed to work on his offensive game rather than playing 5 minutes on the 4th line? What if there is some untapped potential in Prischepov?

Just because he's in the AHL at 20 years old doesn't mean he is never making the NHL.

Also, I should correct myself - LOC at age 20 was playing his 2nd season with the University of Denver. He didn't become a full time member of this club until he turned 25.

There is zero reason to rush Prischepov.

 

[expatriatedtexan]

Why is it so hard to come to grips with the Avs being patient with a 20 year old kid they just drafted playing top six minutes in the AHL and being allowed to work on his offensive game rather than playing 5 minutes on the 4th line? What if there is some untapped potential in Prischepov?

Just because he's in the AHL at 20 years old doesn't mean he is never making the NHL.

Also, I should correct myself - LOC at age 20 was playing his 2nd season with the University of Denver. He didn't become a full time member of this club until he turned 25.

There is zero reason to rush Prischepov.

Because they are in a very tight contention window and they have a young guy who can contribute in the bottom six but chose to ignore him for the likes of Chris Wagner.

With the Avs getting healthy it's not as big of a deal...except when rehashing and trying to figure out what we can do better. For a team with Stanley Cup contention visions, but find themselves actually fighting for a wild-card spot to be dumping a dude like Prischepov in favor of a guy like Wagner tells me there is something rotten going on in the Avs.

You can't defend that move.

 

[Pokecheque]

I very much enjoyed it when Helm just went "F*** it" and ignored Bedsy and just started hitting anything that moved during the Cup run

The key as always with Bednar and bottom sixers is speed. Aube-Kubel and Helm had no issue during their time with the Avs, dare I say even thrived, because they could indeed crash and bang but could hustle back into position immediately afterwards. Trenin obviously didn't have the speed, and I can't remember if Duhaime did, I feel like that was more of a hockey IQ issue. Either way, neither guy was able to make much of a contribution and looked visibly stilted during their short time in Denver.

Not justifying Bednar's thinking here, if anything he needs to go back to the way things were a bit when Soderberg played a key role on his team. In one way Soda was viewed as something holding him back from implementing the system he wanted, but he allowed enough flexibility so that line was able to shoulder a pretty heavy workload.