Rumor: 2024-2025 Trade Rumors and Free Agency Talk | The Slow Crawl to the Season

[ABasin]

That's so against the spirit of the game. Soon they'll have to find a new name for this sport.

In that play, could one not make the case that the puck handler was "forced" (or presssured, perhaps) over the red line there?

I loathe 3-on-3 OT, so I'm up for just about anything to improve it, or make it look like real team hockey. Not sure this is it, but what the hell.

 

[henchman21]

This has exactly what to do with Colorado's October strength of schedule?

That it isn't exactly a cakewalk. The Avs are no longer an elite team, some of those teams have comparable success recently, and some are on the upswing. Going back 5 years doesn't have a ton of relevance today.

And if you look at 3 years instead of 2 years suddenly the Avs have 4 series wins. I don't get the insistence to invent new ways to shit on the team when they're doing well. Statistically the Avs have overdelivered hence the f'n Stanley Cup in our cupboard.

It isn't to shit on the team and we should be incredibly happy the Avs did get a Cup. Stating this Avs team isn't elite shouldn't be met with such disdain. The Avs are a good team, a team that may win a round... but as they current sit, are not well situated to be a Cup contender. That's just a reality.

IMO with MacK, Makar, and Rants still under 30. The goal shouldn't be to get to the 2nd round and pat ourselves on the back. It is Cup or bust. You want to see this team make a run and actually contend. Not be beat out by a wild card team and the following season be boat raced out of the 2nd round.

 

[cccoltsicehockey]

That’s what I was going to say. They almost have to give Cal Ritchie a 9 game tryout out of sheer desperation for F help. Hopefully that’ll buy enough time for Lehkonen to come back. Cause last I saw is he won’t miss much time but it’s doubtful he’s ready Game 1.

I hope it happens honestly cause I don't trust the coaching staff to give him the full 9 games otherwise and we need to get a glimpse of where he is at compared to the NHL level.

 

[shadow1]

That it isn't exactly a cakewalk. The Avs are no longer an elite team, some of those teams have comparable success recently, and some are on the upswing. Going back 5 years doesn't have a ton of relevance today.

I don't have to go back five years. They've won 50+ games in back-to-back seasons, which is fourth most in the NHL.

Their playoff record has nothing to do with their October SOS. If it did, then Boston would be seen as an easy matchup, which it obviously isn't.

 

[henchman21]

I don't have to go back five years. They've won 50+ games in back-to-back seasons, which is fourth most in the NHL.

Their playoff record has nothing to do with their October SOS. If it did, then Boston would be seen as an easy matchup, which it obviously isn't.

Nor does the last two seasons... teams change. All but two of those teams should be better (Vegas and San Jose) than they were last year. Utah and Seattle should be dramatically better. Avs are likely to be worse to start the season given the likelihood of missing 2 or 3 of Landy, Lehky, and Nuke. On a team that is a good, but short of elite team. Missing those 3 guys could render them an average team... or similar to a lot of those teams.

 

[Pokecheque]

Nah force the teams into full 5v5 20 minute OTs until someone wins. Players will figure it out to avoid the extra work.

I'm all for the NBA model but no way is the league or the union gonna go for that.

I'd especially be okay with that rule change if it means the end of the loser point.

 

[The Mars Volchenkov]

That clip is literally the first time they’ve tested the rule. You have to let the players adjust to the rule.

That’s what he gets for leaving the zone with full possession.

 

[shadow1]

Nor does the last two seasons... teams change. All but two of those teams should be better (Vegas and San Jose) than they were last year. Utah and Seattle should be dramatically better. Avs are likely to be worse to start the season given the likelihood of missing 2 or 3 of Landy, Lehky, and Nuke. On a team that is a good, but short of elite team. Missing those 3 guys could render them an average team... or similar to a lot of those teams.

Repeating myself from earlier: for everyone else it's glass half full, but with Colorado it's glass half empty.

Landeskog hasn't played in years. Lehkonen missed half of last season, and Nichushkin missed nearly 30 games himself last year. Colorado didn't lose all of those games (far from it), and that was with horrible Ryan Johansen in the line-up for 60 some-odd games.

But this is so far away from the point. Their opening schedule has seven non-playoff teams, four of which were truly abysmal (<28 Wins). You may be able to get excited about Ottawa or Utah or whoever, but the other side of the coin Vegas has hemorrhaged talent and the Islanders aren't exactly contenders (or even playoff locks). As far as schedules go, it's collectively a weak group of teams to face. Dare I say... a cakewalk.

 

[dahrougem2]

Nah that rule is amazing. 3v3 isn't real hockey anyways so might as well do everything possible to up the excitement level and flow of the game.

We don't need teams passing the puck around back and forth in their own zone for 3 minutes looking for the one perfect entry.

 

[AslanRH]

I can't imagine expending the energy to be so contrarian and/or this pessimistic in July and August.
Especially with the number of unknowns the Avs have right now.
Some of y'all are going to need to go outside before the season starts.

 

[GoNordiquesGo]

Nor does the last two seasons... teams change. All but two of those teams should be better (Vegas and San Jose) than they were last year. Utah and Seattle should be dramatically better. Avs are likely to be worse to start the season given the likelihood of missing 2 or 3 of Landy, Lehky, and Nuke. On a team that is a good, but short of elite team. Missing those 3 guys could render them an average team... or similar to a lot of those teams.

How many of these teams would you say have a greater than 66% chance of making the playoffs next year ? VGK, CBJ, NYI, BOS, ANA, @ SJ, @ SEA, @ UTA, OTT, CHI

 

[henchman21]

Repeating myself from earlier: for everyone else it's glass half full, but with Colorado it's glass half empty.

Landeskog hasn't played in years. Lehkonen missed half of last season, and Nichushkin missed nearly 30 games himself last year. Colorado didn't lose all of those games (far from it), and that was with horrible Ryan Johansen in the line-up for 60 some-odd games.

But this is so far away from the point. Their opening schedule has seven non-playoff teams, four of which were truly abysmal (<28 Wins). You may be able to get excited about Ottawa or Utah or whoever, but the other side of the coin Vegas has hemorrhaged talent and the Islanders aren't exactly contenders (or even playoff locks). As far as schedules go, it's collectively a weak group of teams to face. Dare I say... a cakewalk.

Not at all true.

Not saying the Avs have lost those games, but the Avs are down significantly in talent compared to the Cup team and each year they have lost talent. Vegas has lost some talent for sure... it isn't like the Avs are immune from that either.

There is turnover in every season where playoff teams go in and out.

How many of these teams would you say have a greater than 66% chance of making the playoffs next year ? VGK, CBJ, NYI, BOS, ANA, @ SJ, @ SEA, @ UTA, OTT, CHI

Vegas, Boston, and NYI should all make the playoffs with ease. Seattle, Utah and Ottawa are fringe teams that need some things to fall their way but should be in the playoff hunt until late or in.

 

[expatriatedtexan]

I hope Girard is jettisoned before the season starts!

As for the discussion we had on the playoffs. I'm actually believing that radical might be best.

Do away with conferences and formal divisions. Basically each team would play each other team twice. That's like 62 games. The schedulers would have to develop a system to ensure that each year, each team is playing a different set of teams for those extra games. Playoffs would simply be the top 16 teams in the league. Seed 1 vs 16. Repeat reseading each playoff round. Another thought: Training camp is the last week of August. Exhibition games are the first week of September. The season starts on 9/7, expands to 93 games in length (reduced to 62 in olympics/world cup years, play each team 3 times. No to anything resembling a play-in round if expanding the season.

The more I think about it the more I really like the idea of eliminating divisons and conferences. The problem is getting to an even number of games. You're stuck at multiples of 31.

 

[GoNordiquesGo]

Vegas, Boston, and NYI should all make the playoffs with ease. Seattle, Utah and Ottawa are fringe teams that need some things to fall their way but should be in the playoff hunt until late or in.

VGK, CBJ, NYI, BOS, ANA, @ SJ, @ SEA, @ UTA, OTT, CHI
Vegas and Boston are the only teams that are likely to make the playoffs.
I don't put NYI in there but its arguable.
The other 7 teams are likely to miss the playoffs.
Therefore if 7 or 8 of the first 10 games are against teams likely to miss the playoffs, the Avs opening schedule is soft. It would almost be difficult to make it any easier than that... All 4 teams likely to be last in their respective divisions are in there, plus a few of their likeliest contenders.

 

[henchman21]

VGK, CBJ, NYI, BOS, ANA, @ SJ, @ SEA, @ UTA, OTT, CHI
Vegas and Boston are the only teams that are likely to make the playoffs.
I don't put NYI in there but its arguable.
The other 7 teams are likely to miss the playoffs.
Therefore if 7 or 8 of the first 10 games are against teams likely to miss the playoffs, the Avs opening schedule is soft. It would almost be difficult to make it any easier than that... All 4 teams likely to be last in their respective divisions are in there, plus a few of their likeliest contenders.

Did you see the moves some of those teams made? Know their youth?

 

[Balthazar]

Nah that rule is amazing. 3v3 isn't real hockey anyways so might as well do everything possible to up the excitement level and flow of the game.

We don't need teams passing the puck around back and forth in their own zone for 3 minutes looking for the one perfect entry.

Why not just flip a coin and give the extra point to the winner?

Heads = home team
Tails = road team

 

[dahrougem2]

Why not just flip a coin and give the extra point to the winner?

Heads = home team
Tails = road team

Old heads always want to go back to "the good ol days"

You want two line pass, too?

 

[expatriatedtexan]

Old heads always want to go back to "the good ol days"

You want two line pass, too?

I'm a solid no to the two-line pass. Hell, I'm a yes to elimination of off-sides all-together. However, I feel the points systems needs a complete overhaul and there are only two systems that actually make sense to me. 3-2-1-0 and 2-1-0-0.

3-2-1-0
3 points for regulation wins
2 points for OT win
1 point for shootout win
0 ponits for losing

2-1-0-0
2 points for regulation wins
1 point for an OT win
0 points for either team if 5 minutes of OT can't decide it

Points are awarded with an emphasis on regulation play. Points are still awarded for a team that wins in OT but not as many, recognizing that OT is not "real" hockey. Points are never awarded for losing in any fashion. What are the issues/arguments against these concepts, that I don't understand?

 

[shadow1]

Not at all true.

Not saying the Avs have lost those games, but the Avs are down significantly in talent compared to the Cup team and each year they have lost talent. Vegas has lost some talent for sure... it isn't like the Avs are immune from that either.

There is turnover in every season where playoff teams go in and out.


Vegas, Boston, and NYI should all make the playoffs with ease. Seattle, Utah and Ottawa are fringe teams that need some things to fall their way but should be in the playoff hunt until late or in.

Vegas just lost multiple key pieces though. The only impact player Colorado lost from last season was Walker (and let's face it, he struggled). Looking back at the '22 Cup team is too long ago within the context of this season's schedule.

I'm not oblivious to the likelihood that this club's hourglass is running low on sand. The window might already be closed, the current roster is flawed and could face the same doom as last year's team.

But the Avs didn't lose much this off-season. Unless multiple players lose a step or there are severe injuries, they're going to wipe the floor with a lot of these teams. Their issue is they're too flawed to beat the more complete teams ahead of them.

It's hard not to be excited by Utah. On the flip side, I'll believe it when I see it with Ottawa (and even if they are better, the Avs usually abuse them to the tune of 7 goals). I'm not as high on Patty Roy's Islanders and their 30 OTL's, and don't know what to make of Seattle other than the fact they're a trap game for Colorado.

Regardless, these 10 teams are pretty far from the creme de la creme. The Avalanche splitting with the six playoff hunt teams, and mopping the floor with the Mission-27W teams, is a highly likely possibility.

 

[henchman21]

Vegas just lost multiple key pieces though. The only impact player Colorado lost from last season was Walker (and let's face it, he struggled). Looking back at the '22 Cup team is too long ago within the context of this season's schedule.

I'm not oblivious to the likelihood that this club's hourglass is running low on sand. The window might already be closed, the current roster is flawed and could face the same doom as last year's team.

But the Avs didn't lose much this off-season. Unless multiple players lose a step or there are severe injuries, they're going to wipe the floor with a lot of these teams. Their issue is they're too flawed to beat the more complete teams ahead of them.

It's hard not to be excited by Utah. On the flip side, I'll believe it when I see it with Ottawa (and even if they are better, the Avs usually abuse them to the tune of 7 goals). I'm not as high on Patty Roy's Islanders and their 30 OTL's, and don't know what to make of Seattle other than the fact they're a trap game for Colorado.

Regardless, these 10 teams are pretty far from the creme de la creme. The Avalanche splitting with the six playoff hunt teams, and mopping the floor with the Mission-27W teams, is a highly likely possibility.

In those first 10 games… down Walker (better than you’re giving credit for), Nuke, Parise, Duhame, and Trenin from the playoffs. Duhaime and Trenin disappointed but they are far better than Kelly and Wagner. Parise was actually pretty good down the stretch. Nuke is Nuke… when he’s on the ice he’s great. Also a potential for Lehky to be out too. We’re staring down Wood and LOC potentially in the top six to start. That isn’t how the roster should be thought of for the whole season, but the first 10-20 games are likely to be a lacking roster. One closer to a wild card or fringe playoff team rather than what the team looks like healthy.

Vegas lost guys, but still clearly a playoff caliber roster. They rushed a bunch of guys back from injury and it isn’t like they sat on their hands either. Far from a perfect team and I don’t think they are contenders… but a playoff team.

 

[AvsFan4]

There situations involving the obvious in Landeskog and Nichushkin are insane. I hate that we’re in this spot. Yea we know Landeskog is gonna come back and attempt to play this year, but like, when? Late October/early November? Or TDL time? Can we get like a rough estimate Avs brass? Maybe we’ll know more after camp.

 

[shadow1]

In those first 10 games… down Walker (better than you’re giving credit for), Nuke, Parise, Duhame, and Trenin from the playoffs. Duhaime and Trenin disappointed but they are far better than Kelly and Wagner. Parise was actually pretty good down the stretch. Nuke is Nuke… when he’s on the ice he’s great. Also a potential for Lehky to be out too. We’re staring down Wood and LOC potentially in the top six to start. That isn’t how the roster should be thought of for the whole season, but the first 10-20 games are likely to be a lacking roster. One closer to a wild card or fringe playoff team rather than what the team looks like healthy.

Vegas lost guys, but still clearly a playoff caliber roster. They rushed a bunch of guys back from injury and it isn’t like they sat on their hands either. Far from a perfect team and I don’t think they are contenders… but a playoff team.

All I said was Walker struggled, he's a good player for sure, and signed a sweetheart deal.

Duhaime, Parise, and Trenin will essentially be replaced by Kelly, O'Connor, and sadly Wagner. The big sore thumb is Wagner <-> Trenin, which is a massive downgrade, but one I don't think is going to kill Colorado against the average regular season opponent. Trenin didn't fit in well with the team, but was still rock solid defensively. Duhaime on the other hand I don't even see as a loss. For as good as he was in the regular season, in the playoffs he and his 7 minutes of ice time was an idioctic penalty waiting to happen.

The caliber of player Vegas lost relative to the Avalanche is so different it's not even comparable. Marchessault and Stephenson were franchise pillars, and they also lost some good depth players. It could all work out, Holtz could pop off, Olofsson could re-bound, etc. But at face value what went out was a lot better than what came in. And for all the talk on this board about age curve, a ton of the best Golden Knights players are already on the wrong side of 30.

 

[Hasbro]

Old heads always want to go back to "the good ol days"

You want two line pass, too?

 

[henchman21]

All I said was Walker struggled, he's a good player for sure, and signed a sweetheart deal.

Duhaime, Parise, and Trenin will essentially be replaced by Kelly, O'Connor, and sadly Wagner. The big sore thumb is Wagner <-> Trenin, which is a massive downgrade, but one I don't think is going to kill Colorado against the average regular season opponent. Trenin didn't fit in well with the team, but was still rock solid defensively. Duhaime on the other hand I don't even see as a loss. For as good as he was in the regular season, in the playoffs he and his 7 minutes of ice time was an idioctic penalty waiting to happen.

The caliber of player Vegas lost relative to the Avalanche is so different it's not even comparable. Marchessault and Stephenson were franchise pillars, and they also lost some good depth players. It could all work out, Holtz could pop off, Olofsson could re-bound, etc. But at face value what went out was a lot better than what came in. And for all the talk on this board about age curve, a ton of the best Golden Knights players are already on the wrong side of 30.

Parise will be the biggest loss of that group. He was more impactful than Trenin. The day 1 forward group just doesn't look all that strong:

Drouin-Mack-Rants
Wood-Mitts-LOC
Kovalenko-Colton-Kivi
Kelly-Wager-Polin

That's a bottom 10 forward group. Top line... Mitts and a bunch of flawed bottom 6ers. Now if one (or both) of Lehky or Landy are ready to go that certainly helps a lot. But that doesn't elevate a ton, it just gets the 2nd line up to snuff. Until Nuke comes back and if health persists, the forward group will be a weakness and reliant on the top line carrying things.

The team as a whole for the first 10-15 is a weak forward group, bad goaltending, and a good (but soft) defense. Luckily in the regular season, you can get away with a soft defense and a good defense raises the floor. What it will take to start hot is George being good and the top line to take over games and play 22-24 minutes. If anything falters there... getting to Nuke and Lehky's return might be about holding to .550 hockey.

Vegas was proactive in replacing their departures during the season... Martinez to Hanifin. Stephenson to Hertl. Both of those are sizable upgrades. The one they didn't do that with was Marchy. Where I don't think Holtz is the guy that replaces him but Brisson is. Holtz is more insurance. Their forward group looks like:

Barbashev-Eichel-Brisson
Dorofeyev-Hertl-Stone
Olofsson-Karlsson-Holtz
Howden-Roy-Kolesar

Their defense projects as:
Hanifin-Pietrangelo
McNabb-Theodore
Hauge-Whitecloud

They are really strong down the middle. Eichel and Hertl are both 1C capable guys. Hertl is more of a question on age, injuries and regression. Karlsson is still a very good 3C and Roy would be a 3C on most teams. Where Vegas is weaker is on wing. They are talented but flawed. I hate Olofsson as a player and I think that will blow up in their faces. Brisson is a gem though and should step in as a 2nd line quality player. Doro showed NHL ability needs NHL consistency. Stone and Barbie are good top 6 players and fit Vegas like glove. The defense is still strong, need to not regress.

All that said, Vegas is just a playoff team as they sit. Night 1, their roster looks way better because of their advantage at forward. There isn't enough though. When they eventually pull off the Theodore/Marner trade... that's when they could elevate back up.

 

[ABasin]

That clip is literally the first time they’ve tested the rule. You have to let the players adjust to the rule.

That’s what he gets for leaving the zone with full possession.

Is the rule like regular offsides, where they call it regardless of the reason?

Or does the player have to purposefully carry the puck back over the red line? What happens if a player is "forechecked" hard at the redline, and he is "forced" back over the red line?