Rumor: 2024-2025 Trade Rumors and Free Agency Talk | Part Deux

[dahrougem2]

The Avs are obviously trading for Bedard you f***s

 

[dahrougem2]

I would trade Mikko for Pettersson in a nanosecond. You could run MacKinnon/Petey down the middle for the next few years at elite levels.

Remember, folks, you don't NEED elite wingers to win championships. Especially when your centers are that good, you can absolutely get by with Nichushkin/Drouin/Lehkonen/Colton as your top six wingers.

Punt Casey to 3C and flank him with LOC and Wood, then Kiviranta can play with Kelly and whatever other scrub is remaining for RW.

Playoffs roll around, Landeskog joins the top six and his Swedish countrymate while Colton drops down to 3LW and Wood goes to the 4th line and I get a massive f***ing stiffy from the roster up front.

 

[The Abusement Park]

People probably don't even remember when Pavel Datsyuk was known as a playoff choker, or when people thought Steven Stamkos couldn't get it done in the postseason, because eventually both players threw those monkeys off their backs with authority.

EP is simply too talented to just disappear in the playoffs every year. In any event it's likely all a moot point because I'll be shocked to my very core if they end up trading Mikko at all.

Yup. And while EP wasn't great the playoffs year before last, his first playoff run he was actually fantastic. So he's shown that he can actually be a positive asset in the playoffs.

 

[Pokecheque]

Fair points on Datsyuk and Stamkos, but I wouldn’t trade Mikko for Datsyuk or Stamkos that’s my point.

101 points in 81 career playoff games for Mikko. It needs to be a center with at least similar point production if we’re talking about one for one trade Mikko for a C, otherwise we will get much worse.

I might consider something like Necas+Slavin for Mikko. It’s gotta be something significant for us to move Mikko. One for one for EP simply makes us much worse

I certainly wouldn't trade Mikko for the versions of those two players as they exist now, no.

Necas/Slavin would never happen, and it would be a significant downgrade up front. I don't think even having Slavin would make up for that either.

 

[The Abusement Park]

I would trade Mikko for Pettersson in a nanosecond. You could run MacKinnon/Petey down the middle for the next few years at elite levels.

Remember, folks, you don't NEED elite wingers to win championships. Especially when your centers are that good, you can absolutely get by with Nichushkin/Drouin/Lehkonen/Colton as your top six wingers.

Punt Casey to 3C and flank him with LOC and Wood, then Kiviranta can play with Kelly and whatever other scrub is remaining for RW.

Playoffs roll around, Landeskog joins the top six and his Swedish countrymate while Colton drops down to 3LW and Wood goes to the 4th line and I get a massive f***ing stiffy from the roster up front.

Even then getting wingers that are good enough to compliment EP/Mack at the deadline is infinitely cheaper than getting C's that might make an impact somewhere in the lineup.

 

[Avs_19]

Get EP if you can. Everyone and everything except 29 and 8 should be on the table.

 

[LOFIN]

I would trade Mikko for Pettersson in a nanosecond. You could run MacKinnon/Petey down the middle for the next few years at elite levels.

The problem is, EP40 is just as much of a question mark as Mittelstadt at this point. At double the salary.

 

[the_fan]

I certainly wouldn't trade Mikko for the versions of those two players as they exist now, no.

Necas/Slavin would never happen, and it would be a significant downgrade up front. I don't think even having Slavin would make up for that either.

I meant prime Datsyuk and Stamkos, still wouldn’t trade Mikko one for one for either. No matter how you look at it, we will most likely lose any trade involving Mikko. That’s why we shouldn’t trade him

 

[Avsfan1921]

101 points in 81 career playoff games for Mikko. It needs to be a center with at least similar point production if we’re talking about one for one trade Mikko for a C, otherwise we will get much worse.

Unfortunately imo there is just no chance that Mikko returns a player like you are describing here.

- C is the premier position
- Mikko contract is expiring
- any theoretical player in his tier either has a similar contract we can’t afford or the we wont have the assets to acquire.

We will lose any Mikko trade from a pure talent perspective. The benefit should be rounding the team out to compensate trading a top winger in the league.

Edit: Sorry, saw your other response just above this and I misunderstood what you were saying.

 

[Pokecheque]

I meant prime Datsyuk and Stamkos, still wouldn’t trade Mikko one for one for either. No matter how you look at it, we will most likely lose any trade involving Mikko. That’s why we shouldn’t trade him

If you wouldn't trade Mikko for either Datsyuk or Stamkos prime-era, I don't mind saying you're out of your f***ing mind. Those two guys were super-elite gamebreaking talents when they were at their best. We're talking top-five for Datsyuk for sure, maybe Stamkos too but he also missed out on some prime years due to that broken leg.

Datsyuk is one of the best two-way talents to ever play the game, Mikko was the first jersey of the modern-era Avs I ever bought and he remains one of my favorites to ever take the ice, but I'd throw him into any deal that gets me either of those guys without even blinking.

Now...I agree that realistically, most any trade with Mikko has the Avs losing big-time, so I don't see it happening, just saying if there was even the remotest possibility to trade him for EP, I'd do it.

 

[dahrougem2]

The problem is, EP40 is just as much of a question mark as Mittelstadt at this point. At double the salary.

Nah he's really not. The underlying numbers are just fine for Pettersson and it's only a matter of time until the production follows.

Mittelstadt's underlying numbers are horrendous.

 

[Balthazar]

Mikko would have to accept a sign and trade to Vancouver, I don't see that happening.

 

[Pokecheque]

Mikko would have to accept a sign and trade to Vancouver, I don't see that happening.

Why?

 

[the_fan]

If you wouldn't trade Mikko for either Datsyuk or Stamkos prime-era, I don't mind saying you're out of your f***ing mind. Those two guys were super-elite gamebreaking talents when they were at their best. We're talking top-five for Datsyuk for sure, maybe Stamkos too but he also missed out on some prime years due to that broken leg.

Datsyuk is one of the best two-way talents to ever play the game, Mikko was the first jersey of the modern-era Avs I ever bought and he remains one of my favorites to ever take the ice, but I'd throw him into any deal that gets me either of those guys without even blinking.

Now...I agree that realistically, most any trade with Mikko has the Avs losing big-time, so I don't see it happening, just saying if there was even the remotest possibility to trade him for EP, I'd do it.

I’m just going by playoff numbers. Mikko’s playoff numbers are significantly better than Datsyuk and Stamkos. Yeah centers are more valuable than wingers, but when the point production of a center is significantly less than the winger in question, it will still make the team worse.

 

[LOFIN]

Nah he's really not. The underlying numbers are just fine for Pettersson and it's only a matter of time until the production follows.

Mittelstadt's underlying numbers are horrendous.

"It's only a matter of time". It has been a full f***ing calendar year of a slump for EP40. There is something wrong with that guy, and it's not just JT Miller. He's only having a slightly better year than Mittelstadt, what does that tell you when we all know how bad Mitts has sucked this year?

Would I trade Mikko for EP40, if they can't re-sign Mikko to a reasonable deal, and EP40 was available and it would just cost Mikko and some other asset? Yes. Would I trade Mikko for EP40 if Mikko is willing to re-sign for less than MacKinnon? f*** no. Never.

 

[Richard88]

If we get Jones, I think Manson will likely be gone. Maybe not to Chicago, but using Manson in a different deal to get a center. They’re not gonna pay Manson 4.5 mill to put him on a 3rd pair, and we would need the cap space.


No way we should trade Val. Look how mediocre this team is without Val, and how much better they are with him in the lineup

You're right, when he's in the lineup he's super important. But he's already wrecked two playoff runs by not being in the lineup.

 

[Pokecheque]

I’m just going by playoff numbers. Mikko’s playoff numbers are significantly better than Datsyuk and Stamkos. Yeah centers are more valuable than wingers, but when the point production of a center is significantly less than the winger in question, it will still make the team worse. In this case, Mikko’s playoff numbers are much better than Datsyuk, Stamkos, EP. It’s not even close

You can't just look at a graph because, again, Datsyuk got the job done better than just about anyone of his era in all three zones. You can't just blindly compare that to Rantanen, who has had the benefit of top line minutes alongside one of the best centers to ever play and much softer minutes than Datsyuk ever had.

But even then, go check out his performance in the 2008 playoffs. Only reason he didn't win the Conn Smythe was because his teammate Henrik Zetterberg outproduced him (likely because he got the easier minutes...because, once again, Datsyuk took on the hardest defensive assignments and STILL scored at an elite pace).

Anyway, this is a moot point, we're talking about a totally imaginary scenario.

 

[Balthazar]

Why?

Why would he go there? Rants has very little reason to accept a sign and trade when he can hit the market in a few months. If he thinks that he can get 14M X 7 on the market and the Canucks offer 14M X 8 then maybe?

Carolina is the city where he'd accept to go IMO. Easy traveling on the East coast, org is very Finn friendly, Aho would be his center, cup contenders, etc.

 

[dahrougem2]

"It's only a matter of time". It has been a full f***ing calendar year of a slump for EP40. There is something wrong with that guy, and it's not just JT Miller. He's only having a slightly better year than Mittelstadt, what does that tell you when we all know how bad Mitts has sucked this year?

Would I trade Mikko for EP40, if they can't re-sign Mikko to a reasonable deal, and EP40 was available and it would just cost Mikko and some other asset? Yes. Would I trade Mikko for EP40 if Mikko is willing to re-sign for less than MacKinnon? f*** no. Never.

0.97 PPG since last season and his most common linemates have been Ilya Mikhayev and Nils Hoglander.

You put Mikko Rantanen with the likes of Ilya Mikhayev and Nils Hoglander (or Connor Garland and Jake DeBrusk - Brock Boeser sandwiched in between) and he's not putting up his 1.30 PPG.

Pettersson is so much better than Mittelstadt it's not even close.

 

[LOFIN]

0.97 PPG since last season and his most common linemates have been Ilya Mikhayev and Nils Hoglander.

You put Mikko Rantanen with the likes of Ilya Mikhayev and Nils Hoglander (or Connor Garland and Jake DeBrusk - Brock Boeser sandwiched in between) and he's not putting up his 1.30 PPG.

Pettersson is so much better than Mittelstadt it's not even close.

Yeah, I know what he has been able to do in the past. But he has been in a year long slump now.

I compared him to Mittelstadt in the sense that out in Vancouver the discourse around Petterson has been EXACTLY the same as we've had with Mittelstadt for a while now. Yeah, no shit EP40 is better than Mittelstadt. He's also the 5th highest paid player in the league, and been producing at a worse rate than Artturi Lehkonen.

We all though we had solved our #2C position a year ago when we acquired Mittelstadt. None of us expected a downfall like this. And now you just want to completely ignore clear warning signs from Pettersson?

There's a reason there was basically a 50/50 split between EP40 and JT Miller about who to trade, despite EP40 having the higher ceiling and being younger. A lot of people are afraid that he already peaked, and this is what he is going forward. And if the Canucks front office is seriously shopping him, you can ask yourself, why? Could it be, that they also think that way.

 

[Pokecheque]

"It's only a matter of time". It has been a full f***ing calendar year of a slump for EP40. There is something wrong with that guy, and it's not just JT Miller. He's only having a slightly better year than Mittelstadt, what does that tell you when we all know how bad Mitts has sucked this year?

Would I trade Mikko for EP40, if they can't re-sign Mikko to a reasonable deal, and EP40 was available and it would just cost Mikko and some other asset? Yes. Would I trade Mikko for EP40 if Mikko is willing to re-sign for less than MacKinnon? f*** no. Never.

I believe one factor people aren't taking into account is that the Canucks are currently being run by a horrid, no-good, terrible, awful head coach (and yes, I know he won the Jack Adams, but don't get me started on THAT dumb Trophy) and I'm not entirely convinced he's had an actually good head coach. I like Bruce Boudreau a lot but I'm currently re-evaluating him after so many failed stints.

Why would he go there? Rants has very little reason to accept a sign and trade when he can hit the market in a few months. If he thinks that he can get 14M X 7 on the market and the Canucks offer 14M X 8 then maybe?

Carolina is the city where he'd accept to go IMO. Easy traveling on the East coast, org is very Finn friendly, Aho would be his center, cup contenders, etc.

No, I'm asking why does he need to sign an extension first?

 

[Balthazar]

New list from TSN

No, I'm asking why does he need to sign an extension first?

Because they obviously aren't going to trade EP for a rental

 

[Vaslof]

Mitts for Byram who says no?

 

[Pokecheque]

Because they obviously aren't going to trade EP for a rental

I'm not so sure about that. Blockbuster trades involve pending UFAs all the damned time. The Rob Blake trade was a rental, the players heading the other way IIRC were not. And yes I realize that was nearly 25 years ago and pre-cap, but I'm not convinced they wouldn't do it.

There would likely have to be some sort of assurances he would sign, yes, but I don't think it has to be a sign-and-trade.

 

[LOFIN]

I believe one factor people aren't taking into account is that the Canucks are currently being run by a horrid, no-good, terrible, awful head coach (and yes, I know he won the Jack Adams, but don't get me started on THAT dumb Trophy) and I'm not entirely convinced he's had an actually good head coach. I like Bruce Boudreau a lot but I'm currently re-evaluating him after so many failed stints.

Tocchet was hired to Vancouver in late January 2023. Between Jan. 23rd 2023 and Jan. 23rd 2024, Elias Pettersson scored 109 points in 83 games.

Between Jan. 23rd 2024 and today, Elias Pettersson has scored 58 points in 76 games. If you include the playoffs, it's 64 points in 89 games.

Tocchet is not the problem with his production. The problem is Elias Pettersson.