Rumor: 2024-2025 Trade Rumors and Free Agency Talk | Part Deux

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I'd rather another winger that puts up 70-90 points with top 6 minutes than rantanen at 13+ mil going forward.

getting 100+ points is always impressive at an individual level but Vegas, Florida, and Tampa show you don't need multiple 100+ point players making bankkkkkk to win a cup.

you could have a cirelli + hagel for the price of 1 13-mil rantanen and i know we'd take that in a heartbeat

now if you're talking Kaprizov in the 12-13 mil range NOWWW we're talking about an option. He's the only UFAthat would make me think about it.

drouin - mack - kaprizov
lehk- mitts - nuke
landy - ELC - LOC
(cheap 4th line)
*colton, wood, somehow gone

would be amazing
I don't think there's anyway Kirill signs with Colorado as a UFA. Likely NYC or Florida bound. Only way he would end up here would be via trade, like Mikko (re-signed) + Colton?? + Ritchie/high pick and even then I don't think Minny would trade him to Colorado.
 
I mean... at this point Mikko isn't bringing back a legit top 6 player. If he signs a contract with the team were trading ahead of the deal, than sure that could be an option. But until that happens, Mikko's value right now is higher end picks, prospects and middle 6/bottom 4 dmen most likely.
There are different ways to skin a cat. Sign and trade is one way, a three team trade is another. Heck even letting Mikko walk is another as we could use his cap hit to sign a high end winger. That would be assuming you can bring in a player that wants to come here though which would be dangerous to end up with nobody.

But as I said, all I know is that paying him 13M+ is not a solution to keep this team as a contender. Even 12M would make it very difficult.
 
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Ummm no it shouldn't?
I know the poster probably tried to be funny about our lack of depth if we re-sign Mikko. And there is a small truth in that, some moves would have to be made. But the biggest problem is not going to be the lack of depth because of Mikko's cap number, the biggest problem is likely going to be the same problem we have right now: the other top-6 forwards can't stay healthy (or get healthy in Landeskog case) OR are playing like a minor league player (Mittelstadt). Getting rid of Rantanen isn't going to solve these issues.

If we re-sign Rantanen, we would probably have to trade Colton, maybe Wood, and not re-sign Drouin. That should still leave us with enough top-6 talent provided that Landeskog returns to some form, Mitts unf***s himself, and Nuke stays healthy (and stays out of the powder). And if those things don't happen, not re-signing Mikko isn't going to provide a solution.
 
There are different ways to skin a cat. Sign and trade is one way, a three team trade is another. Heck even letting Mikko walk is another as we could use his cap hit to sign a high end winger. That would be assuming you can bring in a player that wants to come here though which would be dangerous to end up with nobody.

But as I said, all I know is that paying him 13M+ is not a solution to keep this team as a contender. Even 12M would make it very difficult.
I mean the upcoming winger class in FA is fine-ish. It has a high end winger in Marner, but isn't realistically isn't going to be the Mikko replacement because he doesn't add anything more in talent/production and will still eat up a similar amount of cap. Then you have Ehlers and Boeser who could potentially fill that role, but also come with some risks/downsides. I mean Ehlers/Boeser at ~9 is cheaper than Mikko at 13 but I wouldn't say the value in those contracts is necessarily better. And even it's not a guarantee those guys will fit the team/system or in Ehlers case, when he gets to the playoffs he becomes an absolute ghost.

And I'm not saying Mikko has to be kept at all costs. Because his cap hit would certainly be a real roadblock going forwards, but I think icing a cup contending team post Mikko is just as difficult icing one with Mikko.
 
I know the poster probably tried to be funny about our lack of depth if we re-sign Mikko. And there is a small truth in that, some moves would have to be made. But the biggest problem is not going to be the lack of depth because of Mikko's cap number, the biggest problem is likely going to be the same problem we have right now: the other top-6 forwards can't stay healthy (or get healthy in Landeskog case) OR are playing like a minor league player (Mittelstadt). Getting rid of Rantanen isn't going to solve these issues.

If we re-sign Rantanen, we would probably have to trade Colton, maybe Wood, and not re-sign Drouin. That should still leave us with enough top-6 talent provided that Landeskog returns to some form, Mitts unf***s himself, and Nuke stays healthy (and stays out of the powder). And if those things don't happen, not re-signing Mikko isn't going to provide a solution.
I have no clue why, but I read that as "if he signs elsewhere for 13mil". So that parts definitely an error on my part.
 
Sign and trade would require a team wanting to sign Mikko for 8 years instead of 7. Aside from the Avalanche, I doubt many teams are looking for that extra year.
Another team that acquires him would have the same incentive for 8 years as the Avs: lower the caphit.
 
One more rantish thing here: the word depth needs to be shot to the f***ing moon (preferably to Mimas or some other moon of Saturn, so further than Moon). Everyone always talks about how "you need depth to win!".

No. You need guys who are performing to AND overperforming to their current contracts. And getting rid of Mikko doesn't provide a solution to our underperforming players (RossCo, Landeskog, Nichushkin, Mittelstadt).
 
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And adding to this, if we could have at least two of three question marks solved definitely by now, the discourse around trading Rantanen could pick up more:

-Drouin
-Nuke
-Landeskog

We NEED at least two of them to play regularly in a top-6 role. Not just once in a while, practically every night. Aside from what can very well argued to be freak injuries, Rantanen has been pretty healthy for some time now. Same can't be said for the aforementioned three. If Nuke and Drouin could stay in the lineup and Landeskog was well on his way coming back, you could start discussing the Rantanen trade. We would have enough top-6 players.


Funny, how you completely ignored my post on the previous page where I called you out on your bullshit with stats. Rantanen doesn't really leech off from MacKinnon, and MacKinnon does produce more than Rantanen on his own in the last two years because he plays with better players.
People can choose to come to their own conclusions but personally, if you say stuff like "f*** the defensive impact"... I think that's a pretty weak argument. One-way forwards are a very rare breed in the NHL these days, you have to be absolutely elite in order for the coach to put up with it. Mikko enjoys 'blowing his own tire' in the corner of the offensive zone every single game - so he doesn't have to bother to backcheck as hard 98% of the time.... Bednar ignores it because of his offensive contributions.

You can post stats from back to 2020 since it actually helps your argument because #96 was a lot better then than he's been the past 2 seasons.

I posted this last week after 44 games played :

In the 44 games Rantanen has played this season and out of his 60 total points
- 51 of those 60 points have happened with MacKinnon on the ice
- out of the NINE points that happened when #29 was on the bench, there were 2 empty net goals by Rants.
So that's a total of 7 points this season when he's been on the 2nd line and/or without Mack. You can point to Mitts having a really bad couple of months but if you're going to be paying a guy 10-11-12M OR MORE per year, he pretty much HAS to be a play driver.

Signing him to anything over $12M is a huge, huge mistake. I wouldn't do it.
 
I’ve stressed the point several times that at least Rantanen misses very few games to contrast that against spending that money on more guys who are injured a lot. However, if Rantanen signed his deal and then suddenly started missing time, it wouldn’t be the first time a player has done that. Rantanen has already been on one very nice contract and it wasn’t a problem then, so maybe I’m making too much of it now. But it still terrifies me. But so does everyone else staying healthy.

I have more faith in Rantanen staying healthy than the field but that’s not saying much.
 
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Ummm no it shouldn't?
While it was partially tongue in cheek, he’s not going to have high end linemates for the most part in this scenario. A 13 million dollar player should be expected to drive offence, as in apply sustained pressure with a decent amount of that resulting in actual production.

When was the last time we’ve seen Mikko actually control play and have sustained pressure consistently? And that is playing mostly with top line players.

If we are expecting him to have quality offensive linemates if he takes $13 million, that is not likely to happen for cap reasons. They are going to be closer to the third line player quality than first line most likely, imo.
 
I’ve stressed the point several times that at least Rantanen misses very few games to contrast that against spending that money on more guys who are injured a lot. However, if Rantanen signed his deal and then suddenly started missing time, it wouldn’t be the first time a player has done that. Rantanen has already been on one very nice contract and it wasn’t a problem then, so maybe I’m making too much of it now. But it still terrifies me. But so does everyone else staying healthy.

I have more faith in Rantanen staying healthy than the field but that’s not saying much.

You're more likely to get injured playing a complete game. Just saying..
 
While it was partially tongue in cheek, he’s not going to have high end linemates for the most part in this scenario. A 13 million dollar player should be expected to drive offence, as in apply sustained pressure with a decent amount of that resulting in actual production.

When was the last time we’ve seen Mikko actually control play and have sustained pressure consistently? And that is playing mostly with top line players.

If we are expecting him to have quality offensive linemates if he takes $13 million, that is not likely to happen for cap reasons. They are going to be closer to the third line player quality than first line most likely, imo.
So should we put LOC and Kiviranta with Nate as well?

We can have enough top-6 players even if we keep Mikko: Lehky, Nate, Rants, Gabe, Mitts, Nuke.
 
People can choose to come to their own conclusions but personally, if you say stuff like "f*** the defensive impact"... I think that's a pretty weak argument. One-way forwards are a very rare breed in the NHL these days, you have to be absolutely elite in order for the coach to put up with it. Mikko enjoys 'blowing his own tire' in the corner of the offensive zone every single game - so he doesn't have to bother to backcheck as hard 98% of the time.... Bednar ignores it because of his offensive contributions.

You can post stats from back to 2020 since it actually helps your argument because #96 was a lot better then than he's been the past 2 seasons.

I posted this last week after 44 games played :

In the 44 games Rantanen has played this season and out of his 60 total points
- 51 of those 60 points have happened with MacKinnon on the ice
- out of the NINE points that happened when #29 was on the bench, there were 2 empty net goals by Rants.
So that's a total of 7 points this season when he's been on the 2nd line and/or without Mack. You can point to Mitts having a really bad couple of months but if you're going to be paying a guy 10-11-12M OR MORE per year, he pretty much HAS to be a play driver.

Signing him to anything over $12M is a huge, huge mistake. I wouldn't do it.
What's his Points per 60 rate with/without MacKinnon?
 
When you watch a game and see both Rantanen and MacKinnon, do you see a difference ?

If not, I'm just going to start to assume that you ARE Mikko Rantanen.
Nate is a much better player than Rantanen, I dont think anyone is arguing that.
 
So should we put LOC and Kiviranta with Nate as well?

We can have enough top-6 players even if we keep Mikko: Lehky, Nate, Rants, Gabe, Mitts, Nuke.
Nate would still drive offence with those two, Mikko would not. Of course his production would take a hit but that’s not the point I am making.
 
I mean the upcoming winger class in FA is fine-ish. It has a high end winger in Marner, but isn't realistically isn't going to be the Mikko replacement because he doesn't add anything more in talent/production and will still eat up a similar amount of cap. Then you have Ehlers and Boeser who could potentially fill that role, but also come with some risks/downsides. I mean Ehlers/Boeser at ~9 is cheaper than Mikko at 13 but I wouldn't say the value in those contracts is necessarily better. And even it's not a guarantee those guys will fit the team/system or in Ehlers case, when he gets to the playoffs he becomes an absolute ghost.

And I'm not saying Mikko has to be kept at all costs. Because his cap hit would certainly be a real roadblock going forwards, but I think icing a cup contending team post Mikko is just as difficult icing one with Mikko.
Hey at least we might finally get people here to complain about something else than "the Avs have a terrible bottom-6 or ""Bednar overplays his top guys again". Change is good. :laugh:
 
Nate would still drive offence with those two, Mikko would not. Of course his production would take a hit but that’s not the point I am making.
So maybe we should indeed play Kiviranta and LOC with MacKinnon then, spread the wealth.
 
Nate would still drive offence with those two, Mikko would not. Of course his production would take a hit but that’s not the point I am making.
Ok cool, lets put Nate with them and then see how Mikko does with Drouin and Lehky then. I mean Mack is the highest paid player on the team, he should be able to handle that responsibility no?
 
While it was partially tongue in cheek, he’s not going to have high end linemates for the most part in this scenario. A 13 million dollar player should be expected to drive offence, as in apply sustained pressure with a decent amount of that resulting in actual production.

When was the last time we’ve seen Mikko actually control play and have sustained pressure consistently? And that is playing mostly with top line players.

If we are expecting him to have quality offensive linemates if he takes $13 million, that is not likely to happen for cap reasons. They are going to be closer to the third line player quality than first line most likely, imo.
I have no clue why, but I read that as "if he signs elsewhere for 13mil". So that parts definitely an error on my part.
Above I already admitted fault in misreading you're quote. For whatever reason I thought you were talking about him playing for another team not here. But in the case of the Avs it's a more likely possibility than elsewhwere.
 
So what I'm seeing is we have 2 top-6 players, Mack and Lehky

- Mikko, UFA, wants 14m+, so trade him now for assets or let him walk
- Drouin, UFA, but injuries keep coming up
- Nuke, injuries and possible stage 4 suspension any day
- Landeskog, injuries, may never play again
- Mitts, sucks, need to get a better 2C

That's 30.625m of question marks right now.
 

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