Rumor: 2024-2025 Trade Rumors and Free Agency - Offseason Edition

[chet1926]

Nuke is going to end in a termination and settlement. The Avs will threaten pure termination and deal with the union grievance (regardless of if it would hold up). Nuke will say that he has to be bought out and will fight anything. All parties (including NHLPA and NHL) will come together to make it work. Nuke will get something, but it won't be the $25m he'd get out of a buyout. Where it exactly lands between 0-25m is anybody's guess (my personal thought is ~12m).

I'd bet we have an answer on this prior to the draft, but at least July 1. If we get past July 1, we will see how the Avs are planning by the cap space they leave open.

Pretty much this. It's really the only logic step at this point. Sucks but there is no way that Avs get out of his contract for free to much red tape for that to happen.

Hopefully that can spread it out over like 10 years ago or isn't too bad a cap hit.

 

[henchman21]

Pretty much this. It's really the only logic step at this point. Sucks but there is no way that Avs get out of his contract for free to much red tape for that to happen.

Hopefully that can spread it out over like 10 years ago or isn't too bad a cap hit.

Not just the red tape, pure risk. Every team that has terminated a bigger contract has had to pay something to the terminated player. Even being completely valid, there is a risk. If they flat out lose a grievance, then you have an even worse situation. Which is why you bolster a position, then work towards an agreement.

All parties here have a reason to come to the table. Avs get certainty and a contract off the books. Nuke gets a guaranteed amount that he can't snort away. NHL and NHLPA don't get a precedent setting situation that creates problems down the line.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

It doesn't have to be spread over the current contract term (see Richards), but somewhere between 6-12 years is my guess. It won't be crippling, but it won't be insignificant either.

I have a hard time seeing the Avs do this. I have an easier time seeing them waiting for him to screw up and get out of the contract altogether. Unfortunately that could means he comes back to the team for a short while until he does screw up. Personally I see him screwing up before the 6 months are over.

 

[chet1926]

What do you suggest they do about it then? He's not going to just retire. He has a full NMC, and I don't think they are going to ask the captain to waive that. You can't force him to LTIR before he tries to play, if he feels like he is going to be able to play.

There's nothing that can be done about it, but hope that he can play.

I mean the most logical thing, assuming he can't play and he isn't ready at the beginning of next season is approach him about retirement, but make it worth his while. Make a deal with him that if he retired that he can have some guaranteed "position" within the organization that pays him well. There are all sorts of negotiations that could make it worth Landy retiring.

It was fine when it was 1 year, missing 2 years was not great, if he can't go for a 3rd year you have to figure out other options. It's simply not fair to the guys on the ice, who are trying to win. Can't have a guy eating that large of a salary and not providing anything on ice.

Honestly the only reason it's gone on this long is because it is Landy, basically any other player outside 29 and 8 and they would have been bought out by now.

 

[henchman21]

I have a hard time seeing the Avs do this. I have an easier time seeing them waiting for him to screw up and get out of the contract altogether. Unfortunately that could means he comes back to the team for a short while until he does screw up. Personally I see him screwing up before the 6 months are over.

That runs the risk of him not being caught long enough to restart this whole process and being in the hook for more money and issues down the line.

 

[chet1926]

I get that it has been 2 years since he has last played, but a bunch has happened in those years and he is still in rehab of surgery. It's not been 2 years of nothing. We will wait until his rehab is complete and he'll be at training camp.

Of course he's going to give it a shot at TC. Unfortunately that's to late and it's already f***ed us.

You could LTIR him again at that point in September but what good does it do if there aren't any players of value to fill his spot?

We are totally f***ed on this situation. There is literally 1 scenario that works for the team. And that's hope that he's fine day 1 and somehow magically he's still a reasonable top 6 player. Which I'd say is a low probability. Outside that it's a totally f***ed situation.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

That runs the risk of him not being caught long enough to restart this whole process and being in the hook for more money and issues down the line.

I don't think Nuke is the type to last that long. If he can't even last during the playoffs (twice) how is he going to last a year or two until the process restarts? No, he will screw up and fairly soon is my guess.

 

[RockLobster]

The Avs have historically given certain players loyalty and have extended long leashes to them.

-Joe Sakic
-Peter Forsberg
-Patrick Roy
-Milan Hejduk

Just to name a few, I'm sure there are others. But we can now add Gabe Landeskog to that list. They will not rush him in to anything. I get that it's frustrating from our perspective, but the man earned it to be honest. He literally gave his knee to this team to help them win the Cup. If we were to look up the definition of "leaving it all on the ice", Gabe Landeskog and his entire 2022 Playoffs should be an example.

To use a phrase that I kind of hate using it, this situation is a classic "It is what it is".

 

[LOFIN]

I mean the most logical thing, assuming he can't play and he isn't ready at the beginning of next season is approach him about retirement, but make it worth his while. Make a deal with him that if he retired that he can have some guaranteed "position" within the organization that pays him well. There are all sorts of negotiations that could make it worth Landy retiring.

Landy won't retire. Firstly, do you think he would trade the guaranteed 33,5 million he's currently owed for the remainder of his contract to significantly lower salary on some front office job? Fat chance. And if you suggest the Avs can just pay him the same amount for a FO job, the NHL would shut that down immediately as salary cap circumvention.

There's a reason that players who are too hurt to play never retire. They just get showed to LTIR into perpetuity. Roberto Luongo is the only person I can think of who actually retired before his contract was up, and he had 3 years remaining. 1 year at 1,6m, two at 1m. He went straight to the Florida front office, and they probably paid him something close to that amount.

 

[chet1926]

Landy won't retire. Firstly, do you think he would trade the guaranteed 33,5 million he's currently owned for the remainder of his contract to significantly lower salary on some front office job? Fat chance. And if you suggest the Avs can just pay him the same amount for a FO job, the NHL would shut that down immediately as salary cap circumvention.

Obviously, you can't just give him the same salary on some foney made up position. But there are options. Let's not act like the Avs ownership doesn't have tons of attorneys, I'm sure they could figure out legal options.

 

[Avs_19]

Casey is a nice addition so feeling better about the centre position moving forward .. but yeah radical changes (only makar should be untouchable) have to at least be considered .

Nathan MacKinnon is the most disrespected and underappreciated superstar in Avs history. Can the league MVP, who plays literally every game, at least get an honourable mention as being untouchable?

 

[LOFIN]

Obviously, you can't just give him the same salary on some foney made up position. But there are options. Let's not act like the Avs ownership doesn't have tons of attorneys, I'm sure they could figure out legal options.

There's a reason this has never happened with any other players in the league, a lot of them much less worth keeping around than Landy. Kinda like me and @henchman21 were going at it on the Nuke thread about a similar situation, the league takes any types of business that could be perceived as salary cap circumvention very seriously.

And these players are not going to just give up on the money. The situation sucks for Landy as well, but you are gravely mistaken if you think it sucks so much that he would turn back tens of millions of dollars of guaranteed money. Money, that in the worst case scenario he will collect while staying home not doing a damn thing.

Shea Weber hasn't played a single game since 2021 cup finals, and he will never play again. Guess what? He's still on the Utah cap, and will continue to be there until 2026. He could've officially retired already, but that would mean he loses out on a few million that he continues to collect while sitting at home.

 

[ABasin]

Landy won't retire. Firstly, do you think he would trade the guaranteed 33,5 million he's currently owed for the remainder of his contract to significantly lower salary on some front office job? Fat chance. And if you suggest the Avs can just pay him the same amount for a FO job, the NHL would shut that down immediately as salary cap circumvention.

Would that be circumvention? Are teams not allowed to pay retired players, particularly if they retire due to injury? Or does insurance handle that?

 

[chet1926]

The Avs have historically given certain players loyalty and have extended long leashes to them.

-Joe Sakic
-Peter Forsberg
-Patrick Roy
-Milan Hejduk

Just to name a few, I'm sure there are others. But we can now add Gabe Landeskog to that list. They will not rush him in to anything. I get that it's frustrating from our perspective, but the man earned it to be honest. He literally gave his knee to this team to help them win the Cup. If we were to look up the definition of "leaving it all on the ice", Gabe Landeskog and his entire 2022 Playoffs should be an example.

To use a phrase that I kind of hate using it, this situation is a classic "It is what it is".

If we are going with the it is what it is theory. Then I guess people should be prepared to miss the playoffs next year.

Sorry but that's the reality if Landy is on the extremely long leash. Short of him coming back healthy day 1 and being a competent top 6 guy. Anything short of that we are missing the playoffs.

No Nuke, broken/maybe no Landy, means no money and a garbage roster. Seems kind of insane to throw away the prime of 29 and 8 to bend over backwards for Landy.

 

[LOFIN]

Would that be circumvention? Are teams not allowed to pay retired players, particularly if they retire due to injury? Or does insurance handle that?

I haven't gone through the CBA to know if there actually exists a rule for this, but the league has come out in different times that they will punish clubs if they find ways to exploit the cap, even if it's not currently in the CBA.

I think a lot of the older players would be more than willing to just retire, if they would be compensated like they are with their actual contracts.

 

[chet1926]

There's a reason this has never happened with any other players in the league, a lot of them much less worth keeping around than Landy. Kinda like me and @henchman21 were going at it on the Nuke thread about a similar situation, the league takes any types of business that could be perceived as salary cap circumvention very seriously.

And these players are not going to just give up on the money. The situation sucks for Landy as well, but you are gravely mistaken if you think it sucks so much that he would turn back tens of millions of dollars of guaranteed money. Money, that in the worst case scenario he will collect while staying home not doing a damn thing.

Shea Weber hasn't played a single game since 2021 cup finals, and he will never play again. Guess what? He's still on the Utah cap, and will continue to be there until 2026. He could've officially retired already, but that would mean he loses out on a few million that he continues to collect while sitting at home.

Not sure who's ever really tried something like what I'm suggesting. I find it hard to think that a player retires on their own accord, then accepts a paid role within the organization as cap circumvention. Attorneys would have a field day with that. What a former player can't take a paid role within the organization? Guy has been injured for 2+ years, it's within reason that he'd consider retirement. What he does after that is purely up to him, even if he had an under the table agreement to get a role. Maybe they don't give him a role until 12-24 months after retiring.

You bring up Weber as an example. Well maybe he wasn't willing to do something like this. It's really dependent on the player, can't force him to retire. Maybe with Landy it's possible, you never know.

If they can't, they can't. Then buy him out or put him on permanent LTIR. Got to do something if he can't f***ing play.

 

[Balthazar]

Friedman in today's podcast:

- This summer is going to be a challenge for the Avs because of Landeskog and Nichushkin

- First thing to figure out is what is Rantanen's number for his extension.

- Thinks the Avs will find a way to keep Drouin (it's a guess, not information)

- Landeskog: "I don't know, I want to see him come back but I just know it's a real challenge".

- Nichushkin: "They don't have ground to terminate his contract, there's not much they can do right now." "Does the team wants to bring him back? Right now the feelings are very raw, we'll have to see if that's going to change. Is there a willingness from the star players of the organization to say yes, we'll try this again. I don't think you can answer that right now. But if the answer is no you gotta sit there and figure out what are your other options. You can't just unilaterally terminate his deal, as we've seen with Evander Kane and Mike Richards, grievances will force settlements. But everybody has to agree with that and I don't think that's gonna happen in the short term."

 

[LOFIN]

Not sure who's ever really tried something like what I'm suggesting. I find it hard to think that a player retires on their own accord, then accepts a paid role within the organization as cap circumvention. Attorneys would have a field day with that. What a former player can't take a paid role within the organization? Guy has been injured for 2+ years, it's within reason that he'd consider retirement. What he does after that is purely up to him, even if he had an under the table agreement to get a role. Maybe they don't give him a role until 12-24 months after retiring.

You bring up Weber as an example. Well maybe he wasn't willing to do something like this. It's really dependent on the player, can't force him to retire. Maybe with Landy it's possible, you never know.

If they can't, they can't. Then buy him out or put him on permanent LTIR. Got to do something if he can't f***ing play.

I'm not really sure what do you expect to happen in the current status quo? He will either play, or be on LTIR. It's that simple. Why the f*** would we buy him out? Take a massive cap penalty, when we could just LTIR him if he can't play?

If he's only 3rd line caliber when he returns (not that unrealistic TBH), tough shit. It sucks but it is what it is. The buyout is not nice. Maybe next summer you could trade him when he just has a 12 team NTC. Good luck trying to justify that trade to the locker room and fans though.

You bring up Weber as an example. Well maybe he wasn't willing to do something like this. It's really dependent on the player, can't force him to retire. Maybe with Landy it's possible, you never know.

I can almost guarantee you that it's not possible. You are suggesting he would voluntarily just turn down like 30 million dollars. Just because he would do the Avs a favor? The fact is, Landy wants to play again. If the Avs for some reason would go to him and say it's not happening here (why would they do that to their captain lol), he would want to try somewhere else.

 

[Pacman33]

This is such a terrible offseason to be an avs fan. Two situations where its human side vs team side. Of course from personal side we would love gabe back bus his contract likely is a boat anchor if he does. No way hes same player after 2 years and still has lots of term on the deal. Nuke same situation where best case for team is for him to go into stage 4

 

[Balthazar]

This is such a terrible offseason to be an avs fan. Two situations where its human side vs team side. Of course from personal side we would love gabe back bus his contract likely is a boat anchor if he does. No way hes same player after 2 years and still has lots of term on the deal. Nuke same situation where best case for team is for him to go into stage 4

If Landy isn't ready for training camp I hope he does what's best for his team and LTIRetire. That's enough now. This team needs a captain and management can't stay in constant limbo about his cap hit possibly kicking in at any time.

Ideally we'd need a solid yes/no answer from Landeskog before the draft so CMac can build the team properly for next year.

 

[Pokecheque]

I thought we did. Never established themselves

There were games, including game 6, where they were the dominant team, at least in regulation. They just couldn’t solve Oettinger and the penalty kill failed repeatedly.

Also, I don’t care what anyone says. As much he deserves credit for bouncing back from game 1 in the first round, Georgiev still wasn’t good enough.

 

[LOFIN]

The sooner you accept the fact that we are not going to have an answer regarding Landeskog before the training camp begins, the sooner you can start to ponder what this team can actually do roster construction wise this summer. The team isn't going to give him some arbitrary deadline to get himself into game shape, nor is that basically allowed anyways. The Avs can't force him to be on LTIR if he's ok. And if he's not ok for training camp but takes another 6 months, then so be it. Sucks, but it is what it is.

 

[NOTENOUGHRYJOTHINGS]

The 2022 team was just disgusting. Rants MacK Kadri top 20 in scoring. Makar just outside at 21. None of them played a full season.

Landy in the top 25 of points per game plus everything else he brings.

Legitimately 4 guys you could argue were playing like not just first liners. But top end first liners. Two undeniably were superstars.

Makar and Toews played like #1s.

Two ice tilting two way monsters in Lehk and Nuke who never stopped skating.

Byram for the only time thus far in his career showed up to his potential. Manson fit in perfectly.

Where did it all go wrong.

 

[PowerMac]

Tired of seeing the team implode in the playoffs other than the season where they were super stacked. I want to see our superstar talents with a new coach.

 

[dahrougem2]

The 2022 team was just disgusting. Rants MacK Kadri top 20 in scoring. Makar just outside at 21. None of them played a full season.

Landy in the top 25 of points per game plus everything else he brings.

Legitimately 4 guys you could argue were playing like not just first liners. But top end first liners. Two undeniably were superstars.

Makar and Toews played like #1s.

Two ice tilting two way monsters in Lehk and Nuke who never stopped skating.

Byram for the only time thus far in his career showed up to his potential. Manson fit in perfectly.

Where did it all go wrong.

I re-watched the goals from that run last night. It looked like a different sense of urgency.

No idea what it takes to rediscover that but that was the biggest takeaway for me.