Speculation: 2024-2025 General Lightning Discussion: Preseason Edition

[Sky04]

ES Ghostkos had more ES points than Cirelli. More than whoever goes into 2RW.

Paul certainly benefited from PP production for his projected clip of what's average for a 3M player, but he's just as good offensively at half Cirelli's cost.

Our top line isn't an issue. Nobody is arguing that so you're strawmanning his take. The glaring issue is a lack of a second scoring line. Hagel is great, no complaints. It's Cirelli who is average and a lack of a true RW on the 2nd line. There's a lot of hope that Atkinson, Eyssimont, Chaffee, Sheary, Geekie, or Groshev somehow fill the gap and produce.

You made a sarcastic post but nobody is disagreeing with 4/6 of our top 6. It's the 6M 40pt center and roll of the dice RW. That's a problem.

It's still an elite top-6 you guys are just crying because of what? It's not top-3? 5? This whole whining thing makes it look like we have massive holes in our top-6. I'm not straw manning anything, you guys are overly complaining about an issue that JBB already improved significantly this off-season.

Stamkos played LW, so Hagel is an instant upgrade. Cirelli has more or less been in the top-6 for a while now, him being there again isn't an up or downgrade, the only wildcard is how Atkinson or whoever compares to Paul as he played that spot the most last year, again as you pointed out is mostly inflated by PP scoring anyways, and he sucks ass defensively.

Stamkos-Paul was by far the worst duo defensively last season - it's actually funny how much people think Hagel-Cirelli is somehow going to be worst than those guys.

So lets summarize, we upgrade both LW spots from last season with Guentzel to the top line and bumping Hagel down, replace the 2 worst defensive players in the top-6 with 2 of the best defensively as a pair and we are crying because we don't know how big a difference between Paul and his replacement is? If that guys scores half of what Paul does and doesn't float half as much as Paul we're good. Top-6 is poised to be scoring more at ES and getting scored on less.

 

[Todd1a]

It's still an elite top-6 you guys are just crying because of what? It's not top-3? 5? This whole whining thing makes it look like we have massive holes in our top-6. I'm not straw manning anything, you guys are overly complaining about an issue that JBB already improved significantly this off-season.

Stamkos played LW, so Hagel is an instant upgrade. Cirelli has more or less been in the top-6 for a while now, him being there again isn't an up or downgrade, the only wildcard is how Atkinson or whoever compares to Paul as he played that spot the most last year, again as you pointed out is mostly inflated by PP scoring anyways, and he sucks ass defensively.

Stamkos-Paul was by far the worst duo defensively last season - it's actually funny how much people think Hagel-Cirelli is somehow going to be worst than those guys.

So lets summarize, we upgrade both LW spots from last season with Guentzel to the top line and bumping Hagel down, replace the 2 worst defensive players in the top-6 with 2 of the best defensively as a pair and we are crying because we don't know how big a difference between Paul and his replacement is? If that guys scores half of what Paul does and doesn't float half as much as Paul we're good. Top-6 is poised to be scoring more at ES and getting scored on less.

Ya but what’s crazy is a guy like

Kubalik is still out there bring him in for 1 year 1 million and send one of the other scrubs on line 3 or 4 to the minors​

 

[The Gongshow]

We've seen Cirelli and Hagel have good chemistry on the PK. They'll moat likely be a shutdown-lite role. I think its very much "let Kuch do his thing, he has the best FA winger on the market, let the 1st line score" then the team runs the Coop shell trying to hold leads with hopefully a better defensive team 5on5 (which on paper seems to be the case"

Hagel has a motor and has shown a couple times he can take rhe vane over with a god-like shift. Hopefully he gas a couple more of those this tear to give us some 2nd line scoring.

I wonder if JBB is hoping for a 2 year plan of a retool (this offseason) and then next year tries to bag anothet legit top 6 forward and then they go all in year 2 (last year of McDonagh, who they are hoping continues to play at a high defensive level)

 

[LightningStrikes]

My take is this: I think we’re better defensively especially with McD back there instead of Serg, we added Moser, guys like CDH are gone. Guentzel over Stamkos should improve our ES game as well. So the hope is we have the puck more 5v5 and in consequence get more chances ergo we might score more.

The problem last season really was that we spent most of our time on ES chasing the puck. Once we had it, better clear and go for a line change. Repeat until powerplay (hyperbole).

Speaking of, the biggest puzzle to solve seems to be our PP. We’ve lost Stamkos on the left circle. The constant threat of his onetimer opened up time and space for the others. I’m curious what our setup will be.

 

[DistantThunderRep]

It's very rare me and Sky are on the same page. But holy hell, some people are on crack.

 

[These Are The Days]

Ok so you're mad and upset like we have the worst top-6 in the league with a topline of Guentzel-Point-Kucherov? at worst the Hagel-Cirelli line is going to have a 60 point winger, 40 point center and not get scored on but continue to cry like that's bottom of the barrel.\

As for the bolded, I'm not sure what you're trying to say? That every team would prefer it if their number 1 center wasn't hurt during a run? Obviously. Yeah all Edmonton has to do is hope McDavid doesn't get hurt too or Barkov for Florida, Mackinnon for the Av's

It doesn't matter who gets hurt when you are a 1 line team. Healthy or not, you sitting here being all Lo0k At TeH 1St LiNe ThO!" isn't gonna mean anything when all teams have to do is throw the kitchen sink at Kucherov everytime he's on the ice. Don't worry, we are all waiting for you to sit there wailing about guys like Paul and Cirelli for the 3rd year in a row as soon as it doesn't work

 

[Stammertime91]

It's still an elite top-6 you guys are just crying because of what? It's not top-3? 5? This whole whining thing makes it look like we have massive holes in our top-6. I'm not straw manning anything, you guys are overly complaining about an issue that JBB already improved significantly this off-season.

Stamkos played LW, so Hagel is an instant upgrade. Cirelli has more or less been in the top-6 for a while now, him being there again isn't an up or downgrade, the only wildcard is how Atkinson or whoever compares to Paul as he played that spot the most last year, again as you pointed out is mostly inflated by PP scoring anyways, and he sucks ass defensively.

Stamkos-Paul was by far the worst duo defensively last season - it's actually funny how much people think Hagel-Cirelli is somehow going to be worst than those guys.

So lets summarize, we upgrade both LW spots from last season with Guentzel to the top line and bumping Hagel down, replace the 2 worst defensive players in the top-6 with 2 of the best defensively as a pair and we are crying because we don't know how big a difference between Paul and his replacement is? If that guys scores half of what Paul does and doesn't float half as much as Paul we're good. Top-6 is poised to be scoring more at ES and getting scored on less.

You don't know the definition of strawman, clearly, if you are saying you aren't doing that. He's not, nor am I, saying that 4 out of our 6 options are a problem. It's still a good top six, but we are a one scoring line team. That's the point he's trying to make. I'm not sure how anybody can disagree. Cirelli/Hagel are shutdown guys that PK and play defense responsibly - you're making that point and @DistantThunderRep is too. Yeah, precisely the point @These Are The Days is saying as well. Which leaves us with one scoring line... two 20 goal guys is fine but Cirelli just hit that mark so it's not like he's Jumbo Joe out there.

You're content with someone scoring half of Paul's production at 2RW in the top 6 as long as he's not bad defensively. Lol. This is exactly what myself and @These Are The Days are saying? Your bravado and sarcasm just highlighted the issues we have with its' composition and worry that we are only a one line team. Nick Paul had 15g and 17a at ES - even if his numbers were inflated, he still produced. You're good with someone producing 16 ES points at 2RW? That is comical and precisely the concern both of us (and others) have about how our top six looks.

Not to mention, relying on depth isn't exactly appealing looking at our bottom six. There is reason to be confident in them and there is also reason to be skeptical that it's any better than last year.

 

[Master P]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1814794052555964786

Oh no, not Martin Kirschbaum!

 

[Outl4w]

Sprong for 1 year at 975k would be better than Sheary, but it isn't a game breaking move move just a marginal upgrade from a talent level. I still would rather have Sprong or Kubalik any day in the line up over Sheary or Atkinson.

 

[RLP55]

Yes, the defense was a hot mess last season. If healthy, this year is a huge upgrade.

Top 6 will be fine, not great. Still believe a trade is in the works. Have no problem with any 2 of Atkinson, Sheary, or Glendening, but not all 3. Hope one goes in a trade. Unfortunately, most likely Perbix included in a trade scenario. Step on up Lilleberg.

Any body know anything about Pouliot? 26 NHL games in the past 5 years? The 2 years he did get on the ice, he got 17+ minutes a night. Profile says “swift-skating, puck moving defenseman” Will be 31 in January.

Rose color glasses of course, but I’m excited for this season. Can of worms coming….. Still believe Vasi is the elephant in the room. Have to give him a pass for last season. Crap D in front of him and oh yeah, dude had back surgery. Kudos for being a badass to come back so quickly. But, he has not been the same guy for a couple of seasons now.

 

[The Gongshow]

My take is this: I think we’re better defensively especially with McD back there instead of Serg, we added Moser, guys like CDH are gone. Guentzel over Stamkos should improve our ES game as well. So the hope is we have the puck more 5v5 and in consequence get more chances ergo we might score more.

The problem last season really was that we spent most of our time on ES chasing the puck. Once we had it, better clear and go for a line change. Repeat until powerplay (hyperbole).

Speaking of, the biggest puzzle to solve seems to be our PP. We’ve lost Stamkos on the left circle. The constant threat of his onetimer opened up time and space for the others. I’m curious what our setup will be.

Yeah, we definetly felt like a team playing just waiting for their inevitable PP chances to score. That was their biggest threat. We needed to win games 5 on 5 and not rely on the PP so much.

As far as the PP I think it's Hagel in the Stamkos spot, Guentzel as the behind the net bumper and net front presence (based off what I saw from him on Pittsburghs PP). Our new main threat is the triangle between Guentzel, Kuch and Point in the slot. Everyone is gonna double Kuch, so realistically Hagel should be open, but I think the key is for Hedman to shoot alot more. He's gonna get that wide open look from time to time with everyone shifting to the right side to take away Kuch and Point

 

[DistantThunderRep]

Yes, the defense was a hot mess last season. If healthy, this year is a huge upgrade.

Top 6 will be fine, not great. Still believe a trade is in the works. Have no problem with any 2 of Atkinson, Sheary, or Glendening, but not all 3. Hope one goes in a trade. Unfortunately, most likely Perbix included in a trade scenario. Step on up Lilleberg.

Any body know anything about Pouliot? 26 NHL games in the past 5 years? The 2 years he did get on the ice, he got 17+ minutes a night. Profile says “swift-skating, puck moving defenseman” Will be 31 in January.

Rose color glasses of course, but I’m excited for this season. Can of worms coming….. Still believe Vasi is the elephant in the room. Have to give him a pass for last season. Crap D in front of him and oh yeah, dude had back surgery. Kudos for being a badass to come back so quickly. But, he has not been the same guy for a couple of seasons now.

Pouliot is strictly an Syracuse signing. He won't touch the main roster. Crozier, Lilleberg have that 7th and 8th D spot locked.

 

[Outl4w]

Unless several vets step up like Hedman, McDonough, Cirelli,Sheary, Atkinson, and Vasi step up we are going to be a wild card team.
I would love to see Dukes , Gonglaves, Howard, or Geekie push out Sheary and/or Chaffee/Atkinson.

 

[DistantThunderRep]

Unless several vets step up like Hedman, McDonough, Cirelli,Sheary, Atkinson, and Vasi step up we are going to be a wild card team.
I would love to see Dukes , Gonglaves, Howard, or Geekie push out Sheary and/or Chaffee/Atkinson.

Think about what you said? Are we better with the team before, than Florida, Toronto, or Boston? Are we better now than last year? Like yeah we are going to be a wildcard team, that hasn't changed? You say that like its a bad thing. The f*** is wrong with people? How melted are brains by the summer break?

We are better than we were last year. Basically the team we have has a better chance to knock out Boston or Toronto into the wild card spot this year than last year. Healthy Vasy alone makes that possible.

 

[b0lthed]

Yeahhhh I’ll take another playoff appearance for the 7th year in a row. Thankyouverymuch lol

More scattered thoughts …

Hagel is a stud. He and Cirelli have great chemistry. Stamkos won’t be slowing them down anymore. It’s conceivable (if not likely) that with Hagel on his wing all season long that Cirelli will set career highs in offensive production. Not a very high bar, but 50 points seems very doable if he’s healthy.

Do we need to find a RW to fit with them? Absolutely. But let’s imagine that the smart approach is to try a number of different options and hope one of them clicks. If not … not really a big deal. We go make another deadline deal to patch the hole.

If Kubalik will sign for the minimum then he can be waived with almost zero impact on our cap. I don’t really like him as an overall player but he does bring something to the mix that we need which is natural offensive skill and proven production, albeit streaky as hell. Maybe we get a bunch of options at minimal salaries and who cares if we lose 1-2 guys to waivers? I’m thinkin …

Atkinson
Sheary
Kubalik
Ylonen (could surprise)
Crunchy Kidz

I’d like to imagine one of them can seize the opportunity and at least produce for a month or two. Maybe we get lucky and somebody really emerges or has a career year.

As far as I’m concerned the third line can take the exact same approach with Eyssimont and Paul set as a pairing and the RW job going to whoever fits best. If Kubalik doesn’t fit anywhere, cut him. If Sheary continues to suck, bury him in Syracuse. Anyone we lose on waivers will have deserved it and would therefore be easy to replace with a Crunchy Kid.

The end. When does camp start?

 

[Felonious Python]

Filip Zadina is UFA. 24 years old. $1.2m projected contract.

He played for Blashill.

 

[Outl4w]

Pouliot is strictly an Syracuse signing. He won't touch the main roster. Crozier, Lilleberg have that 7th and 8th D spot locked.

If Pouliot gets on the ice in the NHL our defense is far worse than we think.

Filip Zadina is UFA. 24 years old. $1.2m projected contract.

He played for Blashill.

Zadina makes Sprong look like McDavid.

 

[Zwui21]

I really think our best bet to fill the 2RW slot with a cheap wing but with good potential is Alex Nylander. He did pretty good in CBJ the second half of the season once he got traded there, could be signed for cheap.



Surprised nobody took a flyer on him yet, since not being qualified by CBJ.

 

[Hockeyville USA]

Yeahhhh I’ll take another playoff appearance for the 7th year in a row. Thankyouverymuch lol

More scattered thoughts …

Hagel is a stud. He and Cirelli have great chemistry. Stamkos won’t be slowing them down anymore. It’s conceivable (if not likely) that with Hagel on his wing all season long that Cirelli will set career highs in offensive production. Not a very high bar, but 50 points seems very doable if he’s healthy.

Do we need to find a RW to fit with them? Absolutely. But let’s imagine that the smart approach is to try a number of different options and hope one of them clicks. If not … not really a big deal. We go make another deadline deal to patch the hole.

If Kubalik will sign for the minimum then he can be waived with almost zero impact on our cap. I don’t really like him as an overall player but he does bring something to the mix that we need which is natural offensive skill and proven production, albeit streaky as hell. Maybe we get a bunch of options at minimal salaries and who cares if we lose 1-2 guys to waivers? I’m thinkin …

Atkinson
Sheary
Kubalik
Ylonen (could surprise)
Crunchy Kidz

I’d like to imagine one of them can seize the opportunity and at least produce for a month or two. Maybe we get lucky and somebody really emerges or has a career year.

As far as I’m concerned the third line can take the exact same approach with Eyssimont and Paul set as a pairing and the RW job going to whoever fits best. If Kubalik doesn’t fit anywhere, cut him. If Sheary continues to suck, bury him in Syracuse. Anyone we lose on waivers will have deserved it and would therefore be easy to replace with a Crunchy Kid.

The end. When does camp start?

I keep forgetting about Ylonen. Hope he pushes for a spot. I know Canadiens fans didn't care for him too much, but I liked his game in the limited viewings I had.

 

[Felonious Python]

I really think our best bet to fill the 2RW slot with a cheap wing but with good potential is Alex Nylander. He did pretty good in CBJ the second half of the season once he got traded there, could be signed for cheap.



Surprised nobody took a flyer on him yet, since not being qualified by CBJ.

Alexander Maximilian Michael Junior Nylander Altelius (full name) is 26 years old.

There's a fair amount of risk, but if we sign him just enough not to count against the cap while in the AHL, that could be worth trying.

CapWages has us with 43/50 contracts, so we have a little bit of room for experimentation.

 

[Sky04]

Think about what you said? Are we better with the team before, than Florida, Toronto, or Boston? Are we better now than last year? Like yeah we are going to be a wildcard team, that hasn't changed? You say that like its a bad thing. The f*** is wrong with people? How melted are brains by the summer break?

We are better than we were last year. Basically the team we have has a better chance to knock out Boston or Toronto into the wild card spot this year than last year. Healthy Vasy alone makes that possible.

Yeah no kidding, considering Boston and Toronto are probably going to be contending for the president's trophy, Florida even if they lost some players will still be a top team a WC position is preferred.

The division is stacked and we don't need to compete with the top teams in it, they just need to be that much better than the other teams in the East which is completely top heavy. Not sure why anyone would want our team to expend that much energy in the regular season, the expectation should be to take a WC spot easily and see game to game improvement over last year.

 

[LightningStrikes]

I really think our best bet to fill the 2RW slot with a cheap wing but with good potential is Alex Nylander. He did pretty good in CBJ the second half of the season once he got traded there, could be signed for cheap.



Surprised nobody took a flyer on him yet, since not being qualified by CBJ.

He’s an interesting case. 11 goals in 23 games (9 on ES) for a total of 15 points ain’t too bad. He was only -1 on a bad Blue Jackets team. Why couldn’t he stick?

Edit: After looking him up a bit: He played with Gaudreau and his S% was insane and then he got injured.

 

[Felonious Python]

He’s an interesting case. 11 goals in 23 games (9 on ES) for a total of 15 points ain’t too bad. He was only -1 on a bad Blue Jackets team. Why couldn’t he stick?

Probably asking for a big raise + new GM.


Tyler Johnson had 17 goals last year, like it or not.

 

[Stammertime91]

Alexander Maximilian Michael Junior Nylander Altelius (full name) is 26 years old.

There's a fair amount of risk, but if we sign him just enough not to count against the cap while in the AHL, that could be worth trying.

CapWages has us with 43/50 contracts, so we have a little bit of room for experimentation.

I'd be okay with JBB overpaying if there was a condition that every point he gets is announced with his entire name.

 

[Point21]

Looks like Blashill is here to stay