Speculation: - 2024-2025 General Lightning Discussion IV | Page 28 | HFBoards - NHL Message Board and Forum for National Hockey League
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Speculation: 2024-2025 General Lightning Discussion IV

Soul Assumption said:
Since 95% of fans agree we need a new coach let's discuss candidates. Quenneville? Sutter? Laviolette? Maybe Sullivan? He's been destroying Cooper for YEARS, he knows this team's weaknesses and probably knows how to fix them. Or do you want to see a new face with no NHL experience as a head coach? If so, are you thinking of anyone in particular?
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Jon Cooper leaving on his own terms is a hill I die on. He has earned it. If he doesn't want to deal with a rebuild I will throw the going away party myself and demand a statue in his honor
 
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Stammertime91 said:
I mean... as a whole, it's bad but we've also had Hagel for a whole like 2.5 games, Cirelli hurt, and Paul is one of the top 6 guys. Guenztel is excluded because he's producing and not previously with us. So, it really boils down to Kucherov and Point. Putting both on the same line and shutting them down is a piece of cake when Cirelli isn't scoring, Hagel isn't playing, and whoever else is pushed up as a wing.
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Don't have to over analyze it. This is pretty much the main issue right here...
 
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Stammertime91 said:
For reference, in 2020... our bottom six had 6 goals against Florida. Top six had 18 goals against them. Six games...

Entering game five, the bottom six has two goals and our top six has five goals.

Backend production is down too. Idk what it was for 2021 without looking it up, but our scoring as a whole is down. The whole forward group minus Guentzel has been poor.
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If you look at the salary structure and pipeline potential/talent we had back then it is obvious why there was so much success.

Posters have noticed a failure of our top six for what is shaping up to be the third straight postseason, yet some are placing the blame on the production of the bottom six once again. While a team is a team, if your top players suddenly fail to perform postseason after postseason, perhaps it is time to ask them for a waiver of their trade clauses and give you a list of destinations they would accept in an effort to shakeup the remaining roster and start the rebuild for the future.

Even if it means they go from the Sun Coast to (gasp) the Gold Coast, if it actually improves the Lightning, why not?
 
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AlwaysSunnyInTampa said:
Jon Cooper leaving on his own terms is a hill I die on. He has earned it. If he doesn't want to deal with a rebuild I will throw the going away party myself and demand a statue in his honor
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The daily face off podcast on YouTube talked about the possibility today. That if we get bounced there might be a conversation and maybe Cooper would like to move on but obviously on his terms.
 
AlwaysSunnyInTampa said:
Jon Cooper leaving on his own terms is a hill I die on. He has earned it. If he doesn't want to deal with a rebuild I will throw the going away party myself and demand a statue in his honor
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He’s earned the right to leave if he doesn’t want to do a rebuild. It’s not odd he only signed a 1 year extension.
 
creg said:
Is Geekie actually ready though? Like he's very much been the passenger on both the 2nd and 3rd lines. I would hope that JBB would actually address a need rather than hope that a 20 year old figures it out in the off-season.

We need players who can drive play first and foremost and we need someone who can be comfortably slotted in with Hagel/Cirelli and their assignments.

Bjorkstrand could move up to 2RW, sure, but do we really feel comfortable with a 3rd line of Goncalves/Paul/Geekie? We're just running back the same team at that point.
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Yes, and that's likely the plan when you have the #1 offense in the league. They don't have the need, tradeable assets or the cap space to spend half of it on another middle 6 RW when they have two very capable ones already. Good 4th liners won't be as cheap as before with the cap going up, and between at least one of them (depending on if Girg is staying in a 4th line role or not), us hopefully at least one solid defensive depth add, plus Goncalves and a backup G, there simply isn't enough room to go spend 4-5 million on another RW. I believe Geekie is the real deal, and that he'll only continue to improve next year.
 
JTBF81 said:
Yes, and that's likely the plan when you have the #1 offense in the league. They don't have the need, tradeable assets or the cap space to spend half of it on another middle 6 RW when they have two very capable ones already. Good 4th liners won't be as cheap as before with the cap going up, and between at least one of them (depending on if Girg is staying in a 4th line role or not), us hopefully at least one solid defensive depth add, plus Goncalves and a backup G, there simply isn't enough room to go spend 4-5 million on another RW. I believe Geekie is the real deal, and that he'll only continue to improve next year.
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I don't know man, even if you don't agree that we need a 2RW it seems pretty clear that we do need a right shot threat for our pp, which is probably not something you're going to place on our 4th line. Maybe Bjorkstrand can be that guy, but he's never really been a great powerplay producer.

I just think our team's issues are a little bit broader than just needing a very good 4th line - I would hope that one of Geekie or Goncalves is not on the lineup, you need people who can play a heavier game scattered throughout the lineup not just isolated on the 4th.
 
creg said:
I don't know man, even if you don't agree that we need a 2RW it seems pretty clear that we do need a right shot threat for our pp, which is probably not something you're going to place on our 4th line. Maybe Bjorkstrand can be that guy, but he's never really been a great powerplay producer.

I just think our team's issues are a little bit broader than just needing a very good 4th line - I would hope that one of Geekie or Goncalves is not on the lineup, you need people who can play a heavier game scattered throughout the lineup not just isolated on the 4th.
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The very reason that Goncalves and Geekie are now in the lineup is because Tampa needs quality players like them at cheap cap hits for now. They both have earned their roster spots as well. Tampa is only adding size in the bottom 6 because that's all I'm sure JBB feels they need, and because there is simply no one in the top 6 they are moving, realistically speaking. Maybe he tries to see about moving Paul, but that doesn't really do much given his contract value and the versatility he brings. Cirelli would be the only other feasible option, and only if JBB somehow landed a cheaper top 4 RD and then was able to somehow sign a comparable 2C for in the same ballpark cap wise. Otherwise, he's spent the last season or two reconfigured and solidifying the top 6/9, so any more major adds or changes seem unlikely to that group this summer. When you have the offensive capability that the team has, you don't blow it up because a few of them had a bad 5 game stretch in the playoffs imo.

Bjorkstrand is the right handed shot that JBB was willing to pay up to get, and hopefully he's used in a bigger role next season. JBB and the staff felt he was the best realistic option, and its just unfortunate he was injured. Like several other tdl acquisitions at F, I believe he'll be a bjg part of the team in their first full season with them.
 
JTBF81 said:
Yes, and that's likely the plan when you have the #1 offense in the league.
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We had the #1 offense in the regular season. Four games into our postseason we have the 2nd worst offense. Just keeping it real.

Concerning Geekie (responding to the original post), I think he's exactly what we need, once he gets more comfortable at this level. He's good at skating the puck into the zone, considers himself a shooter (could we use some of those?) and he has good size. He's one of the few things I'm hopeful about for next season.
 
OffBy1 said:
We had the #1 offense in the regular season. Four games into our postseason we have the 2nd worst offense. Just keeping it real.

Concerning Geekie (responding to the original post), I think he's exactly what we need, once he gets more comfortable at this level. He's good at skating the puck into the zone, considers himself a shooter (could we use some of those?) and he has good size. He's one of the few things I'm hopeful about for next season.
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Okay, and that's still not going to likely cause management to start asking players like Point or Hagel for trade lists. Cirelli remains the only realistic candidate, and that's only imo if JBB could pull something amazing off like getting a good top 4 RD (Rasmus Andersson would be an Ideal target perhaps), likely retained, and then being able to sign either Bennett or Nelson to a deal within a few hundred k of what Cirelli makes. Not impossible but still unlikely imo.
 
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JTBF81 said:
Okay, and that's still not going to likely cause management to start asking players like Point or Hagel for trade lists. Cirelli remains the only realistic candidate, and that's only imo if JBB could pull something amazing off like getting a good top 4 RD (Rasmus Andersson would be an Ideal target perhaps), likely retained, and then being able to sign either Bennett or Nelson to a deal within a few hundred k of what Cirelli makes. Not impossible but still unlikely imo.
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That's why I've started saying we need a culture change, and should try a new coach, one who will have them play more of a playoff style in the regular season instead of a league's best regular season offense style. Defense first, let's lead the league in fewest goals given up next year, that approach might get have them more prepared for playing in tighter, less wide-open games - so the team isn't dumbfounded as soon as they face a good team defense playing postseason hockey. Our abysmal performance in game one, given how Cooper spoke extensively about how well we know the Panthers, reflects on him as much as the players. How does that happen with how experienced this team and coach is in the playoffs?
 
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OffBy1 said:
That's why I've started saying we need a culture change, and should try a new coach, one who will have them play more of a playoff style in the regular season instead of a league's best regular season offense style. Defense first, let's lead the league in fewest goals given up next year, that approach might get have them more prepared for playing in tighter, less wide-open games - so the team isn't dumbfounded as soon as they face a good team defense playing postseason hockey. Our abysmal performance in game one, given how Cooper spoke extensively about how well we know the Panthers, reflects on him as much as the players. How does that happen with how experienced this team and coach is in the playoffs?
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I mean they went from 23rd in ga/g last year to 4th this year, so I don't know if that's a huge issue. I think a coaching change is possible, but it's likely withnthe assistants this summer. If Cooper still can't get them past the 1st round next year with some new players and assistants, then his contract is up anyway and perhaps it's not renewed.
 
Todd1a said:
Ya but is the Tampa bay lightning job a popular job to want anymore?
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Yes. We are stacked to the gills in championship DNA. In my opinion we have a stagnant approach to the game and a locker room that respects our coach too much to not go out and do it.

I think we just need a trade or 2 and someone who can throw hands and we are back in the saddle.
 
I don't see how things would be any better in Utah for Coop.

They don't have the Hall of Famers we do, and they aren't easily acquired.
 
Florida shut down every star they played against for most of the last two playoffs. The only real exception was Edmonton in the finals last year. But the Panthers are really, really good. And some of what's happening is happening TO us.
 
What a pathetic end to a season that looked promising. Cooper needs to clean house of his entire staff and start from scratch. I'm not opposed to some earth shattering player moves either.
 
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