Speculation: 2024-2025 General Lightning Discussion II: Happy New Year!

[bov]

Donato.and Evans are exactly the type of additional scoring depth pieces that win teams cups, just like Goodrow and Coleman were. Armia isn't as flashy, but would also provide solid bottom 6 depth, as he can add some offense as well as be quite good defensively and on the pk. Crouse isn't likely to be.moved unless a team presents an amazing offer to Utah, and Tampa shouldn't be moving the pieces that would probabaly be required to get him. There's also the fact that he makes 4.3 for another two years, which Tampa would be hard pressed to make work, and no chance Utah is retaining for two additional years unless Tampa pays a very severe price no doubt.

Totally disagree on Donato and Evans. There are players all over the NHL like that. This team already leads the league in goals, and those two players bring virtually nothing that TB doesn't already have. Smallish guys with OK numbers, in part due to their role on bad teams that they likely wouldn't have achieved on a contender. They're not necessarily "soft" but don't have anywhere near the bite, or defensive acumen of Goodrow and Coleman, albeit Evans can PK. Very little playoff experience or success (in fairness, Coleman and Goodrow didn't either at the time, but still).

I know you're not trying to compare guys head-to-head, but the combo of Goodrow-Gourde-Coleman absolutely decimates Armia-Evans-Donato and I don't see the reasoning behind thinking these guys could bring similar value in a playoff run. The former trio could also be trusted to play very hard minutes against the best players in the world when it mattered most, Donato and Evans have not demonstrated that ability. They're decent players but I want no part of spending assets for these guys who have no X factor to their game whatsoever.

Crouse is obviously very unlikely but with cap accrual and ceiling going up, his AAV would be manageable and could turn out to be an absolute steal in a year or two.

 

[Point21]

 

[JTBF81]

Totally disagree on Donato and Evans. There are players all over the NHL like that. This team already leads the league in goals, and those two players bring virtually nothing that TB doesn't already have. Smallish guys with OK numbers, in part due to their role on bad teams that they likely wouldn't have achieved on a contender. They're not necessarily "soft" but don't have anywhere near the bite, or defensive acumen of Goodrow and Coleman, albeit Evans can PK. Very little playoff experience or success (in fairness, Coleman and Goodrow didn't either at the time, but still).

I know you're not trying to compare guys head-to-head, but the combo of Goodrow-Gourde-Coleman absolutely decimates Armia-Evans-Donato and I don't see the reasoning behind thinking these guys could bring similar value in a playoff run. The former trio could also be trusted to play very hard minutes against the best players in the world when it mattered most, Donato and Evans have not demonstrated that ability. They're decent players but I want no part of spending assets for these guys who have no X factor to their game whatsoever.

Crouse is obviously very unlikely but with cap accrual and ceiling going up, his AAV would be manageable and could turn out to be an absolute steal in a year or two.

Crouse brings very little imo. He has been around a .5 ppg player for 3 years now, is terrible this season, and is overpaid for what he currently brings. Even if Tampa could afford him, they would have to pay signficantly for two additional years of retention, and that's not something they should be doing. At full price, they wouldn't be able to make any other significant moves this deadline, and Crouse is far from the missing piece. They have enough scoring, usually, but adding a real top 6 scoring threat such as Palmieri and a middle/bottom 6 grinder (who is defensively responsible amd can add some scoring, like a Donato, Gourde, Armia etc), seems the best path for this season.

 

[bov]

Crouse brings very little imo. He has been around a .5 ppg player for 3 years now, is terrible this season, and is overpaid for what he currently brings. Even if Tampa could afford him, they would have to pay signficantly for two additional years of retention, and that's not something they should be doing. At full price, they wouldn't be able to make any other significant moves this deadline, and Crouse is far from the missing piece. They have enough scoring, usually, but adding a real top 6 scoring threat such as Palmieri and a middle/bottom 6 grinder (who is defensively responsible amd can add some scoring, like a Donato, Gourde, Armia etc), seems the best path for this season.

Crouse is "far from the missing piece" yet we're talking about guys like Evans and Donato...jesus. I respect your point and it's not like you're bringing up bad players, they're solid and I mean no disrespect. We're just on different pages here. Crouse is a better fit by a f***ing mile than those guys and is easily a more valuable player. 27 year old with 3 20+ goal seasons under his belt, has size, can skate, and has the ability to be a dominant physical force even though he's admittedly inconsistent in that regard. Has PK experience too. His cap hit is very good for that package despite the fact that his production is down this season, and plenty of teams would jump at the chance to add a player like that at the price. When you factor in the climbing cap ceiling, that contract has the potential to be excellent if he turns his game around even slightly.

Gourde and Palmieri are of a similar ilk and can be effective, but little guys are the absolute last thing this team needs. Seriously, you can't win with a forward group built that way. It's not consistent with the reality of the NHL, no matter how good they may be. Doesn't work.

I saw some writer recently bring up Cuylle... that's more in line with the type of move JBB would make. Again, it seems unrealistic to think that NY would move him but you never know, they might continue to suck and sell high. That's the type of thing I'd be on board with.

 

[CupsOverCash]

Feel like we need someone to either take pressure off the top guys or someone who can set a tone maybe wake guys up when the game is slow. Feel like the 3rd/4th lines did exactly this in the back 2 back years in different ways.

 

[JTBF81]

Crouse is "far from the missing piece" yet we're talking about guys like Evans and Donato...jesus. I respect your point and it's not like you're bringing up bad players, they're solid and I mean no disrespect. We're just on different pages here. Crouse is a better fit by a f***ing mile than those guys and is easily a more valuable player. 27 year old with 3 20+ goal seasons under his belt, has size, can skate, and has the ability to be a dominant physical force even though he's admittedly inconsistent in that regard. Has PK experience too. His cap hit is very good for that package despite the fact that his production is down this season, and plenty of teams would jump at the chance to add a player like that at the price. When you factor in the climbing cap ceiling, that contract has the potential to be excellent if he turns his game around even slightly.

Gourde and Palmieri are of a similar ilk and can be effective, but little guys are the absolute last thing this team needs. Seriously, you can't win with a forward group built that way. It's not consistent with the reality of the NHL, no matter how good they may be. Doesn't work.

I saw some writer recently bring up Cuylle... that's more in line with the type of move JBB would make. Again, it seems unrealistic to think that NY would move him but you never know, they might continue to suck and sell high. That's the type of thing I'd be on board with.

Palmieri is a better goal scorer than Crouse as of late, is actually a right handed shot, which is something they need (not another left handed shot forced to the right), and, as a ufa, is very attainable at the tdl without gutting a ton of picks and prospects. Nor is Palmieri some small player at 5'11 and 190ish. I'm looking at realistic value targets for the middle 6, and Crouse isn't it.

Palmieri would fit in very well with Hagel-Cirelli or Guentzel-Cirelli, and Tampa could then have the space for both a 1-2 million bottom 6 player and a depth defensive add. Spending nearly 4.5 million for Crouse and his 10 points in 39 games isn't an answer, and paying Utah to retain 2+ million for another two years on top of this one is terrible asset management for Tampa. If thos was 2 or 3 years ago, I'd have paid quite a bit to get Crouse, but now, pass.

 

[bov]

Maroon: 37GP 2G 8A 10P
Perry: 38 GP 6G 6A 12P
Jeannot: 35 GP 5G 3A 8P
Colton*: 23GP 12G 1A 13P

Eyssimont: 35GP 3G 2A 5P
Glendening: 37GP 2G 2A 4P
Girgensons: 37GP 0G 2A 2P
Atkinson: 22GP 3G 2A 5P
Sheary: 4GP 0G 0A 0P
Goncalves: 23GP 1G 1A 2P

If your bottom forwards aren't producing, do they bring some identity to the team? Not really. Do they at least punish the opposition and ignite the boys when they don't have their A game? Nope. Hell I'd even take the TB version of Bellemare over a couple of the guys we have now.

This is a roster construction issue. For whatever reason, JBB got rid of the dogs and kept trying for little pesky guys like Archibald, Sheary, Atkinson (which I didn't mind, still fine with that signing) etc. He's an excellent GM but this roster isn't formidable enough to go all the way, despite the world- class level of skill. I hope he has plans to do something about it.

*Fair enough if you want to exclude Colton because I understood the logic behind the trade.

 

[bov]

Palmieri is a better goal scorer than Crouse as of late, is actually a right handed shot, which is something they need (not another left handed shot forced to the right), and, as a ufa, is very attainable at the tdl without gutting a ton of picks and prospects. Nor is Palmieri some small player at 5'11 and 190ish. I'm looking at realistic value targets for the middle 6, and Crouse isn't it.

Palmieri would fit in very well with Hagel-Cirelli or Guentzel-Cirelli, and Tampa could then have the space for both a 1-2 million bottom 6 player and a depth defensive add. Spending nearly 4.5 million for Crouse and his 10 points in 39 games isn't an answer, and paying Utah to retain 2+ million for another two years on top of this one is terrible asset management for Tampa. If thos was 2 or 3 years ago, I'd have paid quite a bit to get Crouse, but now, pass.

Palmieri is about to turn 34 and he ain't a true 5'11 but regardless, he's a smaller player. Decent track record but acting like Crouse is all of the sudden a 20 point player is just pure foolishness. In a vacuum, 32/32 GMs would take Crouse. Having everyone under 6 feet in the top 6 is no recipe for success.

Nobody is talking about retention, and nobody in their right mind thinks Crouse's current production is indicative of his real ability.

Terrible asset management is dealing picks and prospects for old UFA's with a redundant skillset. If you're going to give something up, proven players with term and time on their side is the way to go. That's how we ended up with 2 cups. People thought Duclair was good for secondary scoring and he did absolutely nothing to increase our chances of winning the cup, and I didn't even mind the trade at the time.

 

[DistantThunderRep]

These are the top 32 lines in the NHL as of right now in xGF%...

 

[creg]

These are the top 32 lines in the NHL as of right now in xGF%...

View attachment 957299

This is why I have 0 issue with our 4th line, they play defensively sound hockey up the opponents lineup and can maintain possession in the o-zone. They're completely incapable of finishing but I much prefer having a line that we can trust over sending Maroon/Bellemare/Perry out there to get shelled.

Our third line on the other hand is completely useless

 

[JTBF81]

Palmieri is about to turn 34 and he ain't a true 5'11 but regardless, he's a smaller player. Decent track record but acting like Crouse is all of the sudden a 20 point player is just pure foolishness. In a vacuum, 32/32 GMs would take Crouse. Having everyone under 6 feet in the top 6 is no recipe for success.

Nobody is talking about retention, and nobody in their right mind thinks Crouse's current production is indicative of his real ability.

Terrible asset management is dealing picks and prospects for old UFA's with a redundant skillset. If you're going to give something up, proven players with term and time on their side is the way to go. That's how we ended up with 2 cups. People thought Duclair was good for secondary scoring and he did absolutely nothing to increase our chances of winning the cup, and I didn't even mind the trade at the time.

Then you're not getting Crouse. Tampa shouldn't be paying 4 3 for him, which is too much for his current numbers, and Tampa can use their projected ~4.5 in cap on multiple adds throughout the lineup. I look at realistic adds, which Crouse is not. Palmieri isn't a small player either, and he's scoring 25-30 goals on a bad offense with the Islanders. Acquiring him gives the top 6 no holes at all, and then acquiring a Donato, Gourde, Armia etc provides a 3rd line with that player, Paul and likely Geekie. Even the 4th line is a little better perhaps, but in any case, having 3 lines that can realistically contribute, plus having the personnel to still have a shutdown line is a significant improvement.

You don't have to have a bunch of 6' plus guys either to win, and Crouse isn't the answer given his 6 whole goals and 10 points in near 40 games this season. He hasn't really had a season that impressive since '21, and while he could get back there, since there's been no indication that Utah is remotely interested in trading him, plus the significant costs to get him, makes it not even worth pursuing. Duclair provided plenty of secondary scoring in the regular season (near ppg at 15 in 17 games), but fizzled in the playoffs. He's a streaky player, and it was unfortunate, but he was fine with Tampa until then. Maybe in 2 years when Crouse is in the last year of his deal I'll consider him a trade target if he's still unsigned, but for now, I'll stick with realistic targets that improve Tampa as this deadline approaches.

 

[bov]

Then you're not getting Crouse. Tampa shouldn't be paying 4 3 for him, which is too much for his current numbers, and Tampa can use their projected ~4.5 in cap on multiple adds throughout the lineup. I look at realistic adds, which Crouse is not. Palmieri isn't a small player either, and he's scoring 25-30 goals on a bad offense with the Islanders. Acquiring him gives the top 6 no holes at all, and then acquiring a Donato, Gourde, Armia etc provides a 3rd line with that player, Paul and likely Geekie. Even the 4th line is a little better perhaps, but in any case, having 3 lines that can realistically contribute, plus having the personnel to still have a shutdown line is a significant improvement.

You don't have to have a bunch of 6' plus guys either to win, and Crouse isn't the answer given his 6 whole goals and 10 points in near 40 games this season. He hasn't really had a season that impressive since '21, and while he could get back there, since there's been no indication that Utah is remotely interested in trading him, plus the significant costs to get him, makes it not even worth pursuing. Duclair provided plenty of secondary scoring in the regular season (near ppg at 15 in 17 games), but fizzled in the playoffs. He's a streaky player, and it was unfortunate, but he was fine with Tampa until then. Maybe in 2 years when Crouse is in the last year of his deal I'll consider him a trade target if he's still unsigned, but for now, I'll stick with realistic targets that improve Tampa as this deadline approaches.

Already said repeatedly that I don't consider Crouse a likely acquisition, but imo you're way off base in assessing his value. You keep harping on 10 points which is an outlier in an otherwise respectable career. He just had 3 straight 20+ goal seasons coming into this one on an abysmal Coyotes team. Has carried a pretty significant role for that team for several years, is viewed as one of their leaders, and is more proven than the likes of Donato, Evans, Armia. His contract was pretty much unanimously viewed as a good one since it was signed, and a half-season doesn't turn the tides.

Palmieri is a smaller player even if you believe what he's listed at, just stop with that already, point stands either way. Sure, you don't need a bunch of trees in the lineup but I say again, a forward group THAT small simply is not built to go all the way, it's an insane expectation and not consistent with the reality of the game. Palmieri is better than the other guys you bring up at least, I will give you that.

Duclair is a perfect example of why I want no part of players like Evans, Donato, Armia etc. even though he's not as well-rounded. People get fooled by points and think "yay, secondary scoring we're gonna need" and don't realize he will not help you win a damn thing. Making an impact in the playoffs is a different ballgame, and honestly Duclair is one of the worst players away from the puck I've seen in a long time. Like actually terrible, and I was OK with the trade when it happened . I'm bringing up players that seem to be in line with what JBB has targeted in the past. They bring some different elements, versus the dime-a-dozen depth guys you seem to love that are scattered all over the NHL.

Realistic? Perhaps not. But management has targeted young-ish more "off the board" players with term/rights and harder to find qualities versus the conventional upcoming UFAs that get shuffled around every deadline. Duclair was more of an exception and it ended up backfiring anyway. We're not gonna see eye to eye on this one, but I'd love to be dead wrong about those guys if it happens.

 

[JTBF81]

These are the top 32 lines in the NHL as of right now in xGF%...

View attachment 957299

That's pretty interesting to see that trio at the top. While I doubt Cooper runs them together a bunch, having the top two lines being
Hagel-Cirelli-Kuch
Guentzel-Point-Geekie
Keep Paul anchoring the 3rd line and add at least one decent middle 6 F to play with him and Chaffee? I guess they could also then add 2 middle/bottom 6 guys and completely overhaul the 3rd line if they feel pretty confident in those 6 players, in some form, as the top 6 that can get it done this season.

 

[bov]

This is why I have 0 issue with our 4th line, they play defensively sound hockey up the opponents lineup and can maintain possession in the o-zone. They're completely incapable of finishing but I much prefer having a line that we can trust over sending Maroon/Bellemare/Perry out there to get shelled.

Our third line on the other hand is completely useless

That line has been solid, but the chart is flattering in the sense that they're playing against other bad (relatively speaking) offensive players in limited minutes. Basically, nothing happens when they're on the ice. It's nice to have a 4th line that is responsible defensively, but their horrendous production is not NHL caliber no matter how you slice it. It's great they're not getting scored on by their counterparts, but it doesn't justify the lack of offense, these things aren't mutually exclusive. All that said, I think they'll pick up the scoring a bit in the second half so it's not a big concern.

Agree 100% on the 3rd line being the real dilemma.

 

[JTBF81]

Already said repeatedly that I don't consider Crouse a likely acquisition, but imo you're way off base in assessing his value. You keep harping on 10 points which is an outlier in an otherwise respectable career. He just had 3 straight 20+ goal seasons coming into this one on an abysmal Coyotes team. Has carried a pretty significant role for that team for several years, is viewed as one of their leaders, and is more proven than the likes of Donato, Evans, Armia. His contract was pretty much unanimously viewed as a good one since it was signed, and a half-season doesn't turn the tides.

Palmieri is a smaller player even if you believe what he's listed at, just stop with that already, point stands either way. Sure, you don't need a bunch of trees in the lineup but I say again, a forward group THAT small simply is not built to go all the way, it's an insane expectation and not consistent with the reality of the game. Palmieri is better than the other guys you bring up at least, I will give you that.

Duclair is a perfect example of why I want no part of players like Evans, Donato, Armia etc. even though he's not as well-rounded. People get fooled by points and think "yay, secondary scoring we're gonna need" and don't realize he will not help you win a damn thing. Making an impact in the playoffs is a different ballgame, and honestly Duclair is one of the worst players away from the puck I've seen in a long time. Like actually terrible, and I was OK with the trade when it happened . I'm bringing up players that seem to be in line with what JBB has targeted in the past. They bring some different elements, versus the dime-a-dozen depth guys you seem to love that are scattered all over the NHL.

Realistic? Perhaps not. But management has targeted young-ish more "off the board" players with term/rights and harder to find qualities versus the conventional upcoming UFAs that get shuffled around every deadline. Duclair was more of an exception and it ended up backfiring anyway. We're not gonna see eye to eye on this one, but I'd love to be dead wrong about those guys if it happens.

And you saying Palmieri is some small player isn't going to convince anyone. He's a skilled RW that would fit in the top 6, regardless of whether he's 33 or 28 or if he's actually 5'11, which he's listed as most places. Tampa probably feels pretty set with the top 6 they have, so ultimately, he's likely a less sought after target anyway. Players like Goodrow and Coleman were also viewed as overpays/reaches by more than a few, especially given the price JBB paid, but when paired with Gourde, they gave Tampa exactly what they needed.

If Paul stays at 3C, and they're happy with the top 6, acquiring 2 of these types, which this season likely include players like Gourde, Evans, Armia. Donato, maybe guys like Drew O'Connor, Luke Evangelista, Tyson Foester, Morgan Frost etc could also be these types that JBB may try and put an enticing offer to pry away from their current teams.

As long as they feel confident in Geekie as someone that can at least be effective as 3RW (thereby putting Paul.at 2RW), they can just focus on adding two 3rd line guys to solidify that line. The 4th line, especially configured as Ace-Glendening-Girgensons/Chaffee, is solid enough in their role this season.

 

[creg]

That line has been solid, but the chart is flattering in the sense that they're playing against other bad (relatively speaking) offensive players in limited minutes. Basically, nothing happens when they're on the ice. It's nice to have a 4th line that is responsible defensively, but their horrendous production is not NHL caliber no matter how you slice it. It's great they're not getting scored on by their counterparts, but it doesn't justify the lack of offense, these things aren't mutually exclusive. All that said, I think they'll pick up the scoring a bit in the second half so it's not a big concern.

Agree 100% on the 3rd line being the real dilemma.

Is there a way to see line matchups? I do feel like Cooper has put the 4th line against tougher matchups but maybe I'm conflating their pp time with their even strength time. Regardless, our 4th last year had 50% at 297, and the year before had a 41% at 444th - given the Girgenson signing I think this is exactly what JBB wanted out of our 4th whether we enjoy watching them whiff on the chances the create or not.

I think part of the awkwardness of the line is that when we're ahead, you feel great about sending them out because you know it's going to be low event, but when you're behind you feel terrible about it because they're just eating up the clock.

I don't even know where to go with the third, ideally it'll have two new wingers before the playoffs.

 

[bov]

And you saying Palmieri is some small player isn't going to convince anyone. He's a skilled RW that would fit in the top 6, regardless of whether he's 33 or 28 or if he's actually 5'11, which he's listed as most places. Tampa probably feels pretty set with the top 6 they have, so ultimately, he's likely a less sought after target anyway. Players like Goodrow and Coleman were also viewed as overpays/reaches by more than a few, especially given the price JBB paid, but when paired with Gourde, they gave Tampa exactly what they needed.

If Paul stays at 3C, and they're happy with the top 6, acquiring 2 of these types, which this season likely include players like Gourde, Evans, Armia. Donato, maybe guys like Drew O'Connor, Luke Evangelista, Tyson Foester, Morgan Frost etc could also be these types that JBB may try and put an enticing offer to pry away from their current teams.

As long as they feel confident in Geekie as someone that can at least be effective as 3RW (thereby putting Paul.at 2RW), they can just focus on adding two 3rd line guys to solidify that line. The 4th line, especially configured as Ace-Glendening-Girgensons/Chaffee, is solid enough in their role this season.

Even though the concept of size seems to be eluding you and he is most definitely a smaller player, this is somewhat agreeable. For the record, I'd take Palmieri before Evans and Donato without a second thought.

People bitched about Coleman and Goodrow being overpays and it turned out perfectly because JBB & co identified the qualities the team needed more of, so he went off the board and away from the UFA market to get them even at a steep price. Goodrow, Coleman, Hagel, even Jeannot weren't really expected to be traded. It's exactly why I'm bringing up players like Crouse and Cuylle instead of the Donatos/Evans/Armias of the world. Same goes for why I don't care for someone like Dumoulin on D even though he is a decent player.

My overarching point is that the team is set on offensive ability already, but isn't diverse enough in terms of what guys bring to the table.

 

[JTBF81]

Even though the concept of size seems to be eluding you and he is most definitely a smaller player, this is somewhat agreeable. For the record, I'd take Palmieri before Evans and Donato without a second thought.

People bitched about Coleman and Goodrow being overpays and it turned out perfectly because JBB & co identified the qualities the team needed more of, so he went off the board and away from the UFA market to get them even at a steep price. Goodrow, Coleman, Hagel, even Jeannot weren't really expected to be traded. It's exactly why I'm bringing up players like Crouse and Cuylle instead of the Donatos/Evans/Armias of the world. Same goes for why I don't care for someone like Dumoulin on D even though he is a decent player.

My overarching point is that the team is set on offensive ability already, but isn't diverse enough in terms of what guys bring to the table.

The conceot of size doesn't elude me at all, and you seem rather hung up on it, so cool I guess. Also, just because JBB went off the radar a couple of times doesn't make it the usual, or even correct play this season. All the names I've listed, with a couple of exceptions, shouldn't break the bank in terms of multiple 1sts or high level prospects, and most would seem to provide the team with the bottom 6/3rd line help they probably need.

Trent Frederic is another name that may be available that I didn't list above who is also in this range. Cuylle is even less likely than Crouse, as the Rangers are very unlikely to move a talented young player they just extended for 7 years. I don't want JBB throwing massive amounts of picks and prospects to try and pull that player either. Edit: my error on Cuylle, as I thought the Rags had extended him already. Since that doesn't seem to be the case as of now, sure, he's definitely someone to consider, although the acquisition cost won't be cheap to get a 22 year old rfa with his talent out of there.

Dumolin is still usually a better dman than any of Lilleberg, Raddysh or Perbix, and while those three may reach ceilings higher than Dumolin, as long as Tampa doesn't badly overpay for him, he'd be a good add for defensive depth and to possibly improve the play of either Raddysh/Perbix with more stability on the 3rd pairing. It's the less pressing need, but the space is there as long as Tampa can move a little salary.

 

[DFC]

Our third line is really the only forward line that I have an issue with, our first has been pretty snakebitten of late but when I look back at the amount of open nets that we've whiffed on the last few games I have to wonder if perception would be different if we finished on some of those chances. Our 4th has been very solid defensively and is able to hold possession in the offensive zone but has 3 people that are completely incapable of finishing and our second line has been far and away our best line.

Our third line just doesn't do anything, can't generate offense and pretty bad on defense - I don't particularly like either of Chaffee or Goncalves, so if I had to choose how we move forward I'd want to acquire a defensively responsible, physical 4th line RW so we can move Mikey up to the 3rd and then target a 3rd line LW who can score.

I do think we need a 2RW but I really don't like any of the available options on expiring deals - most are either too old or too small. I honestly can't see anyone who feels like a JBB target, so I'm assuming he'll go completely out of left field on someone with term or will choose a stopgap like Duclair was last year and try to fix the issue in the off season with some of the expiring UFA's on playoff teams (maybe someone like Boeser would make sense if the cap goes up as a right shot RW for the pp).

One left field player I think about is Nichuskin, Colorado is unbelievably cap strapped and given his off ice issues maybe management is over him? Don't know if I want to bring that in the locker room even if he was available though.

I can't see Colorado parting ways with any major piece right now. Nichushkin's time to move would have been the off season. But on the purely hypothetical front, during the cup years, I think we could have brought in a guy like that, and the team's leadership top to bottom would have handled it. We have many of the same "top" players now, but somehow it feels like all the turnover leaves us... I don't know, vulnerable? To a bad apple player. I just think the team was kind of impervious before because we had so many great character players who'd been here forever. Even if someone did fxxx up, i think the team would have just shrugged it off.

Even though the concept of size seems to be eluding you and he is most definitely a smaller player, this is somewhat agreeable. For the record, I'd take Palmieri before Evans and Donato without a second thought.

People bitched about Coleman and Goodrow being overpays and it turned out perfectly because JBB & co identified the qualities the team needed more of, so he went off the board and away from the UFA market to get them even at a steep price. Goodrow, Coleman, Hagel, even Jeannot weren't really expected to be traded. It's exactly why I'm bringing up players like Crouse and Cuylle instead of the Donatos/Evans/Armias of the world. Same goes for why I don't care for someone like Dumoulin on D even though he is a decent player.

My overarching point is that the team is set on offensive ability already, but isn't diverse enough in terms of what guys bring to the table.

The main thing about Goodrow and Coleman were their contracts. Both of them were on crazy good deals with a year left, so they weren't actually rentals, and they gave us wiggle room to keep adding. So we wound up with teams so crazily stacked it's not even realistic to expect to return to that level. We basically had a pre-cap team, talent-wise.

 

[Rschmitz]

Just acquire another Hagel, problem solved

 

[Kevin27NYI]

Just want to interject, I never considered Palmieri small and never have seen him play small. Initiates contact, wins battles. Also a playoff performer.

 

[creg]

I think Palmieri would be very good in our top 6 this season, but is he someone you want to re-sign as a 34 year old? And if not, is it really worth shelling out the likely haul it will take to get him from Lou for a pure rental

I just don't see JBB making a move like this

 

[Kevin27NYI]

I think Palmieri would be very good in our top 6 this season, but is he someone you want to re-sign as a 34 year old? And if not, is it really worth shelling out the likely haul it will take to get him from Lou for a pure rental

I just don't see JBB making a move like this

Saw an article by Pagnotta that the ask for Nelson and Palms is a first.

My guess based on the market every deadline is Nelson returns a 1st and a mid round pick but palms is a second and a third.

 

[creg]

Saw an article by Pagnotta that the ask for Nelson and Palms is a first.

My guess based on the market every deadline is Nelson returns a 1st and a mid round pick but palms is a second and a third.

Lou is pretty stubborn but if you an get Palmieri for less than a 1st I suppose I wouldn't be opposed - I just think given our cap situation being in a good place right now (and our needs being very identifiable for the off season) it's a lot more likely he packages the 1st and other picks for a younger player with term or with rfa status like he tends to do at the deadline.

 

[Point21]

a pipe dream acquisition would be a Foerster or Evangelista. more likely we will get another Duclair/Dumba type move near the deadline to just move some guys down the lineup.