Speculation: 2024-2025 General Lightning Discussion II: "Atlanticly" challenged

[Zwui21]

4.5 mil in cap, I think we can use these money on better player

COntract termination, meaning he'll be a FA

 

[Peacefool]

COntract termination, meaning he'll be a FA

Oh sure, missed that, thanks

 

[RussianGuyovich]

It'd be interesting to see how the expected goals against were before Moser went out.

i mean, yeah, that would be interesting to see as a comparison. im just echoing the same point everyone else has already made: the bottom six isn't scoring, and they also aren't limiting quality chances against. if your bottom six isn't scoring, they better not be getting scored on.

COntract termination, meaning he'll be a FA

And he'll definitely be cheaper since, if he voluntarily signs that termination, it's clear to him that no one will pay him for that, and it would be a de facto retirement. he wants to play, so he'll take less.

 

[Flat Ronnie]

We need prob 2x forwards. It would be a coup to get Saad on a cheap deal.

 

[bov]

Saad is terrible, no thanks. Like what in the world do people think he is going to do for this team in meaningful games?

TB didn't trade for Geekie in the summer just to ship him out at the deadline .Other than the "anything is possible" angle, he is staying put.

Howard, I could see being traded. Kind of had that feeling since he was drafted, for whatever reason. Not saying it's likely at all, but if this team is trading a high end prospect it'll be him imo.

 

[Flat Ronnie]

Saad is terrible, no thanks. Like what in the world do people think he is going to do for this team in meaningful games?

TB didn't trade for Geekie in the summer just to ship him out at the deadline .Other than the "anything is possible" angle, he is staying put.

Howard, I could see being traded. Kind of had that feeling since he was drafted, for whatever reason. Not saying it's likely at all, but if this team is trading a high end prospect it'll be him imo.

Not sure how Saad on a league minimum deal is terrible?

 

[bov]

Not sure how Saad on a league minimum deal is terrible?

Could be free for all I care, he's one of the softest, most one-dimensional players in the league. He is the absolute last kind of player TB needs.

 

[aylib]

Not sure how Saad on a league minimum deal is terrible?

Probably wouldn’t be the only suitors at that price.

 

[Stammertime91]

The only way to actually improve the bottom 6 scoring depth is to bring in top 6 talent. That pushes someone down ALREADY ON THE TEAM. 100% would rather try to do that then try to add "bottom 6" talent and hope they work.

In theory, yes. In reality, no. We will end up with cap problems if we look to bring in a top 6 player on a heavy contract or expecting one (ie, Boeser). We have a 20 goal winger in Paul that can play top 6. He's a legit piece. People are overlooking him because he's not a flashy name from elsewhere. You won't really find better options for 3M that can play top 9, hit 20 goals and be responsible defensively. He actually shows up too. We have a solid top six. We just need two *legit* wingers to push the cesspool of sub par bottom sixers down to the 4th lol. Geekie has the tools, but not the frame. He gets a pass simply because he's a rookie and he's still raw. Thats expected. As for the other 5, they are all 4th liners and 13th forwards on a contending team. I'd say Girgensons, Atkinson and Eyssimont are realistically 13th forward guys with Ace the best of those three. Chaffee has the tools and a hammer of a shot but if Mitchell Chaffee is our best option in the bottom six, we are screwed. Glendening is a faceoff guy and really nothing else. Plenty of players can PK in the lineup.

We won those cups because we could roll Coleman, Gourde, and Goodrow over the bench who came up with huge goals. They had the offensive ability to do it and make plays. They could also forecheck the other team into oblivion. Same with our 4th line during those runs.

Right now, the issue is our bottom half of forwards. Adding another heavy contract only makes it worse. We could afford it in a yea or two but not now.

 

[Rschmitz]

How desperate are we getting here?

 

[creg]

Saad right now during an off-year would still be the highest scoring forward in our bottom 6 outside of Nick Paul. It depends if he's chasing a cup or wants to be a meaningful part of a team, but it would be great to swing a player like that for free rather than have to trade for one at the deadline.

 

[Rschmitz]

In theory, yes. In reality, no. We will end up with cap problems if we look to bring in a top 6 player on a heavy contract or expecting one (ie, Boeser). We have a 20 goal winger in Paul that can play top 6. He's a legit piece. People are overlooking him because he's not a flashy name from elsewhere. You won't really find better options for 3M that can play top 9, hit 20 goals and be responsible defensively. He actually shows up too. We have a solid top six. We just need two *legit* wingers to push the cesspool of sub par bottom sixers down to the 4th lol. Geekie has the tools, but not the frame. He gets a pass simply because he's a rookie and he's still raw. Thats expected. As for the other 5, they are all 4th liners and 13th forwards on a contending team. I'd say Girgensons, Atkinson and Eyssimont are realistically 13th forward guys with Ace the best of those three. Chaffee has the tools and a hammer of a shot but if Mitchell Chaffee is our best option in the bottom six, we are screwed. Glendening is a faceoff guy and really nothing else. Plenty of players can PK in the lineup.

We won those cups because we could roll Coleman, Gourde, and Goodrow over the bench who came up with huge goals. They had the offensive ability to do it and make plays. They could also forecheck the other team into oblivion. Same with our 4th line during those runs.

Right now, the issue is our bottom half of forwards. Adding another heavy contract only makes it worse. We could afford it in a yea or two but not now.

We have ~11m-12m in cap space available this summer. If we make a move, we have the money to make it work long term, which is why I think we target a young/cheap player with a payday on the horizon.

 

[creg]

In theory, yes. In reality, no. We will end up with cap problems if we look to bring in a top 6 player on a heavy contract or expecting one (ie, Boeser). We have a 20 goal winger in Paul that can play top 6. He's a legit piece. People are overlooking him because he's not a flashy name from elsewhere. You won't really find better options for 3M that can play top 9, hit 20 goals and be responsible defensively. He actually shows up too. We have a solid top six. We just need two *legit* wingers to push the cesspool of sub par bottom sixers down to the 4th lol. Geekie has the tools, but not the frame. He gets a pass simply because he's a rookie and he's still raw. Thats expected. As for the other 5, they are all 4th liners and 13th forwards on a contending team. I'd say Girgensons, Atkinson and Eyssimont are realistically 13th forward guys with Ace the best of those three. Chaffee has the tools and a hammer of a shot but if Mitchell Chaffee is our best option in the bottom six, we are screwed. Glendening is a faceoff guy and really nothing else. Plenty of players can PK in the lineup.

We won those cups because we could roll Coleman, Gourde, and Goodrow over the bench who came up with huge goals. They had the offensive ability to do it and make plays. They could also forecheck the other team into oblivion. Same with our 4th line during those runs.

Right now, the issue is our bottom half of forwards. Adding another heavy contract only makes it worse. We could afford it in a yea or two but not now.

Moving Paul to the second line makes the bottom 6 even worse though, the lightning could easily swing a 5-6 mil player to play on their second line and still make additions to the 3rd line in the off-season with the huge increase in cap and no pending free agents.

 

[DFC]

Chicago game was disgusting.

And does that number even count posts?

 

[Flat Ronnie]

View attachment 969168


How desperate are we getting here?

Welp, just lost to Chicago (almost twice) and Montréal in the past week.

 

[Rschmitz]

Welp, just lost to Chicago (almost twice) and Montréal in the past week.

Surely we can find a better fit

 

[Stammertime91]

We have ~11m-12m in cap space available this summer. If we make a move, we have the money to make it work long term, which is why I think we target a young/cheap player with a payday on the horizon.

Moving Paul to the second line makes the bottom 6 even worse though, the lightning could easily swing a 5-6 mil player to play on their second line and still make additions to the 3rd line in the off-season with the huge increase in cap and no pending free agents.

I've forgotten about the rise to the cap. Good point.


Just no Boeser, please.

 

[Todd1a]

View attachment 969168


How desperate are we getting here?

Have you seen our 3rd and 4th lines ?

For crying out loud chaffe is on the power play lol

 

[T REX]

He's off by one (it's been two straight years of first round exits) but otherwise he makes the obvious counter point to your autopilot responses of it's just three games, just a bad month, etc.

Not everyone on this site has a memory limited to the last week or month. The salary cap and age has made significant impacts on this team. Hedman (our playoff MVP of one cup run) is half the defensemen he was and we have no fix for that. Cernak has an old man's health at 27; his lifeline is McD at 35. Vasy is at least looking good enough to think he could get hot in the playoffs and carry this team through a round or two, but he's still not back to his prime form.

The thing to remember is how we fared against the cup champs in round 1 last year and ask if the improvement of Guentzel, McD and Moser over Stamkos and Serge has gotten us gotten us close enough where making a trade for a Duclair type player this year will make the difference it didn't last year, or will it just be more futures paid for a 1st or 2nd round exit this time.

This is a well thought out non-emotional post.

Well done. Coming from a super emotional poster myself...that is an even handed response.

 

[Rschmitz]

Have you seen our 3rd and 4th lines ?

For crying out loud chaffe is on the power play lol

You could drink your own piss if you're dying of thirst too, doesn't mean you should.

Point being, there are better options

 

[bov]

There are tons of guys who could come in and put up more points than certain current roster players in the roles. But who is actually going to help the team go deep in the playoffs? The goal is to win the cup, any additions will be made with that in mind. Stop wasting time with these buy-low projects who bring hardly anything to the table besides "hollow" points. They have no qualities that bode well for postseason success.

I can't hugely fault JBB for striking out on depth free agents because I get the rationale, but between Sheary, Girgensons, Atkinson...you need at least one of those guys to be half decent. Glendening was an OK signing, Motte wasn't terrible but very meh, Archibald attempt was a fail, Watson PTO didn't amount to much. He keeps trying to find the poor man's Goodrows, Gourdes, Colemans, Maroons etc on the market and it hasn't worked. Being a replacement level plug isn't enough.

I'd much rather see him pay a price for legit players and seek out qualities the team lacks.

 

[OffBy1]

I've not seen Saad play this year. But I did read about how terrible Atkinson was for the Flyers last year, getting repeatedly scratched - and he's lived up to that criticism. Saad must be pretty bad this year for the Blues to be terminating his contract. We need help on the lower six, but we don't need another Atkinson.

 

[Todd1a]

There are tons of guys who could come in and put up more points than certain current roster players in the roles. But who is actually going to help the team go deep in the playoffs? The goal is to win the cup, any additions will be made with that in mind. Stop wasting time with these buy-low projects who bring hardly anything to the table besides "hollow" points. They have no qualities that bode well for postseason success.

I can't hugely fault JBB for striking out on depth free agents because I get the rationale, but between Sheary, Girgensons, Atkinson...you need at least one of those guys to be half decent. Glendening was an OK signing, Motte wasn't terrible but very meh, Archibald attempt was a fail, Watson PTO didn't amount to much. He keeps trying to find the poor man's Goodrows, Gourdes, Colemans, Maroons etc on the market and it hasn't worked. Being a replacement level plug isn't enough.

I'd much rather see him pay a price for legit players and seek out qualities the team lacks.

He tried that with jeannot but struck out you only have so many assets you can’t afford to keep missing.

Is the answer to go back and get gourde and maroon for rentals till we have cap space in the summer?

 

[bov]

He tried that with jeannot but struck out you only have so many assets you can’t afford to keep missing.

Is the answer to go back and get gourde and maroon for rentals till we have cap space in the summer?

They have cap space this year and continue to bank it for the deadline. TB has been able to make meaningful trades under far more difficult cap constraints than they face now, makes no sense to worry about it. BriseBois' misses have been far more glaring (percentage wise anyway) on the FA side than trades, nobody would even say a thing if it wasn't for Jeannot. That's not a legitimate counter point, as much as people love to bitch about it still. I guess some people chirp the Duclair trade but that wasn't egregious, it was a pretty standard deadline trade. Honestly, that one was probably the most out of character for him in terms of the usual approach. You have to give to get, you don't win anything by sitting on your bum refusing to deal assets. JBB's recent comments paint a pretty clear picture of what's in store, barring a disastrous 2nd half.

 

[Rschmitz]

Atkinson passes the eye test for me, unlike Sheary. From time to time he’s managed to make Girgensons/Glendening look like a threat offensively which is a small miracle. Expectations for a guy who plays less than 9 minutes a game and consistently scratched shouldn’t be high