Speculation: 2024-2025 General Lightning Discussion II: "Atlanticly" challenged

[Zwui21]

f***ing hell, you can say whatever you want about JBB. But this guy is THE cut throat of GMs.
He means business, and nothing will stand between him and potentially winning another Cup.
I love it.

 

[Stammertime91]

f***ing hell, you can say whatever you want about JBB. But this guy is THE cut throat of GMs.
He means business, and nothing will stand between him and potentially winning another Cup.
I love it.

GM to fan translation

"We are trying to win another cup you little idiots, but we need better players to do it. Be patient."

 

[Hockeyville USA]

Gonna say it again, our depth scoring would look much nicer if we just didn't trade for Jeannot, kept Colton, didn't sign Sheary. BriseBois completely lost the plot there. Colton on this team puts us comfortably in 2nd in the division IMHO.

I like Ethan Gauthier as a prospect but probably not going to score as much as Colton did.

 

[nhljohnson]

If Tampa wants to overpay for a young RFA with upside, I'd go after Tyson Foerster from Philly over anyone else. Him being right handed is also a bonus given Tampa's lack of them. I'd still prefer a more established player for 2RW l (show me Bjorkstrand please), but if JBB is looking for another Hagel esque move, he'd be my top target.

What's the incentive for Philly to move young, cost-controlled guys like Foerster (ditto for the Rangers with Cuylle, who I believe was mentioned previously)?

 

[bov]

f***ing hell, you can say whatever you want about JBB. But this guy is THE cut throat of GMs.
He means business, and nothing will stand between him and potentially winning another Cup.
I love it.

This quote should be the auto-reply to anyone who complains about trading picks or prospects for good hockey players.

 

[Rschmitz]

What's the incentive for Philly to move young, cost-controlled guys like Foerster (ditto for the Rangers with Cuylle, who I believe was mentioned previously)?

The same incentive Chicago had to trade Debrincat and Hagel or for Nashville to trade Askorov and Jeannot. They won’t come cheap

 

[Rschmitz]

Gonna say it again, our depth scoring would look much nicer if we just didn't trade for Jeannot, kept Colton, didn't sign Sheary. BriseBois completely lost the plot there. Colton on this team puts us comfortably in 2nd in the division IMHO.

I like Ethan Gauthier as a prospect but probably not going to score as much as Colton did.

I understand what JBB was trying to do there, but our scouts got it incredibly wrong and it cost us a lot in terms of flexibility to make future deals. Tried to outsmart the room with that one.

We probably get Hanifin last year instead of Dumba if he didn’t waste those assets on Jeannot, and then we probably have him instead of McDonagh right now which saves us a second round pick. The key here is, if you are gonna overpay with futures to make the deal, you better fill the hole. Not because OMG prospects, but because you end up losing your leverage to make the better deal to fill the bigger hole.

All season I have said that we look great on most nights, unlike last season, but I also think JBB is cherry picking some stats(and he knows it). Since the 5-2 loss to Montreal we’ve looked neutered offensively and the lack of depth scoring is to blame. Our incredible second line, led by Cirelli, has gone into a bit of a funk. Our 2.7 GA/G coincides with this(6p in 14games), and for all of his chicken littling @Soul Assumption is right in pointing it out.

I think this is the more important regression toward the mean, Cirelli playing at a ppg pace all season was a big stretch. We need to acquire secondary scoring, or more ideally, find our top 6 winger to push Paul/Geekie/Chaffee down. Based on what we all just read from JBB, unlike last year, he's not going to piecemeal some minor deals together. He's clearly betting on this team to win this year, I'm expecting a big trade soon.

Also, gotta think everyone is on the table based on his comments, including Geekie.

 

[These Are The Days]

GM to fan translation

"We are trying to win another cup you little idiots, but we need better players to do it. Be patient."

Basically. I can feel myself slowly dying watching this shit show but we literally have no money and can't make our prospects go any faster. We gotta ride this out until the correct opportunity presents itself

 

[DFC]

Captures a lot of the sentiments I have with the team right now, feels like we're playing a lot better hockey despite coming out of January with a rougher record.

Yeah. Whether or not we are one of the best teams is debatable, but to my eye we are miles better than we were last year.

 

[JTBF81]

The Jeannot trade probably didn't cost them Hanifin, only Colton, as Tampa and Calgary seemed pretty far along on a deal last year before Calgary's GM changed his mind. The deal he took from Vegas was nothing special nor included parts Tampa couldn't have topped. I think JBB put a decent offer up that was comparable given the limited teams that Hanifin was willing to go to, but he likely wasn't willing to add much more. Calgary wanted to go with Vegas' offer for probably a few speculated upon reasons, and it was done.

The team's defensive struggles in some games this month have cost them as well. Cirelli being just under .5 ppg is far from the main reason they are just .500 in points % this month.The team as a whole has had some less than stellar output in a few games, and a couple of the losses this month have also seen some poor goaltending. They also finished November around .500 in points %, despite most stats starting to improve that month. The stats are the stats, and they are top 10 and have significantly improved in a few areas compared to.last year's team.

As long as JBB adds a couple of solid depth forwards, or one middle 6 and a true 2RW, they have a good chance to make some real noise in the playoffs. If he can add a depth dman to better stabilize the 3rd pairing (and in case of injury), even better. If either Geekie or Howard are on the table, it better be part of a trade for a high impact player with some term, not a gamble on a ufa to be that may not re-sign and/or will cost too much.

 

[bov]

Hindsight is 20/20 but you can at least see why he went after Jeannot. JBB said it himself a few pressers ago, "you're not gonna bat 1000" or something like that. Drafted Shaugabay by re-acquiring one of those Jeannot picks from Nashville, and I think we drafted Jan Golicic + have LA's 2nd in the upcoming draft because of it. So even though it didn't work out as everyone hoped, we might end up with some nice players from the Jeannot experiment. He'll recoup assets when he needs to.

I'm just glad JBB isn't afraid to make bold moves, he's here to win and it's a complete losers mentality to want to hold on to picks and worry about some BS rebuild down the road. Competent management finds a way. It is so pitiful seeing fans on other boards wanting their teams to lose and joking about wins like "don't ruin the tank!". Absolutely pathetic.

 

[Rschmitz]

The Jeannot trade probably didn't cost them Hanifin, only Colton, as Tampa and Calgary seemed pretty far along on a deal last year before Calgary's GM changed his mind. The deal he took from Vegas was nothing special nor included parts Tampa couldn't have topped. I think JBB put a decent offer up that was comparable given the limited teams that Hanifin was willing to go to, but he likely wasn't willing to add much more. Calgary wanted to go with Vegas' offer for probably a few speculated upon reasons, and it was done.

Noah Hanifin to the Lightning?

Discussion of the Tampa Bay Lightning’s NHL trade deadline battle plan begins with Noah Hanifin. It’s at least possible that it ends with him, too.The Lightning aren’t alone in their pursuit of the 27-year-old Calgary Flames defenseman. Every contender could use someone with his size, skating...

www.nytimes.com

We liked him enough to have an agreed upon contract, but too short on picks/prospects to ultimately get it done. I don't see any other way to look at it than the cost of the Jeannot deal preventing us from getting Hanifin.

 

[DFC]

Hindsight is 20/20 but you can at least see why he went after Jeannot. JBB said it himself a few pressers ago, "you're not gonna bat 1000" or something like that. Drafted Shaugabay by re-acquiring one of those Jeannot picks from Nashville, and I think we drafted Jan Golicic + have LA's 2nd in the upcoming draft because of it. So even though it didn't work out as everyone hoped, we might end up with some nice players from the Jeannot experiment. He'll recoup assets when he needs to.

I'm just glad JBB isn't afraid to make bold moves, he's here to win and it's a complete losers mentality to want to hold on to picks and worry about some BS rebuild down the road. Competent management finds a way. It is so pitiful seeing fans on other boards wanting their teams to lose and joking about wins like "don't ruin the tank!". Absolutely pathetic.

I like that he's bold too (the Sergachev trade), but there was a failure of scouting or something when it came to Jeannot. Seemed like we were blinded by the 24(?) goal season and nobody actually watched him play.

Very few full timers brought less to the table than Jeannot in about a decade. I just have no idea what he showed the scouts in Nashville to make them think he was better than that, because he certainly didn't show anything in TB.

That one is just a head scratcher. I'm assuming it's the worst trade in Lightning history and it has be one on the list of worst NHL trades in a quarter century or so.

 

[DarrylshutzSydor]

Brisebois should be done with trading away any futures. Harvey out of BU looks pretty good sign him at the end of his season

 

[bov]

I like that he's bold too (the Sergachev trade), but there was a failure of scouting or something when it came to Jeannot. Seemed like we were blinded by the 24(?) goal season and nobody actually watched him play.

Very few full timers brought less to the table than Jeannot in about a decade. I just have no idea what he showed the scouts in Nashville to make them think he was better than that, because he certainly didn't show anything in TB.

That one is just a head scratcher. I'm assuming it's the worst trade in Lightning history and it has be one on the list of worst NHL trades in a quarter century or so.

I don't know, I think we have to see how the trade tree grows a bit before calling it the worst in TB history/quarter century. Part of JBB's logic was the likelihood of the picks amounting to effective NHLers, and if & when they would even be good Lightning players. Yes, I'm a Jeannot fan so call me biased but I think some of his untimely injuries also hampered his stint in TB. Just never found his groove, and he was better both before in Nashville and now in LA (not great, but better) than he was with the Lightning. It just wasn't a fit from the get-go sadly.

When you talk about the bad scout aspect, the one thing that surprised me was that JBB specifically complimented Jeannot's skating in the trade presser. It seems odd that he would misjudge such an obvious aspect of a players game, so I do wonder about that a bit.

 

[These Are The Days]

I like that he's bold too (the Sergachev trade), but there was a failure of scouting or something when it came to Jeannot. Seemed like we were blinded by the 24(?) goal season and nobody actually watched him play.

Very few full timers brought less to the table than Jeannot in about a decade. I just have no idea what he showed the scouts in Nashville to make them think he was better than that, because he certainly didn't show anything in TB.

That one is just a head scratcher. I'm assuming it's the worst trade in Lightning history and it has be one on the list of worst NHL trades in a quarter century or so.

The guy scored like 18 doinks, 5 tap ins and 1 regular goal. I watched the highlights once and knew this was never happening again

 

[DFC]

I don't know, I think we have to see how the trade tree grows a bit before calling it the worst in TB history/quarter century. Part of JBB's logic was the likelihood of the picks amounting to effective NHLers, and if & when they would even be good Lightning players. Yes, I'm a Jeannot fan so call me biased but I think some of his untimely injuries also hampered his stint in TB. Just never found his groove, and he was better both before in Nashville and now in LA (not great, but better) than he was with the Lightning. It just wasn't a fit from the get-go sadly.

When you talk about the bad scout aspect, the one thing that surprised me was that JBB specifically complimented Jeannot's skating in the trade presser. It seems odd that he would misjudge such an obvious aspect of a players game, so I do wonder about that a bit.

When you're a contender, picks aren't really about drafting. They are trade capital. We blew it all on one guy, who was terrible, which handcuffed us on make any other trade.

I think it's hard to make the case that it wasn't one of the worst trades of the cap era.

 

[TheDaysOf 04]

Brisebois should be done with trading away any futures. Harvey out of BU looks pretty good sign him at the end of his season

Never say never with JBB

There's a lot of prospects in our pool that I really like. Hopefully a few of them will be able to help us in the very near future. I do think drafting/developing is the way we get back to having a deeper and stronger lineup. But I'm also not opposed to a trade, it just has to make sense.

 

[LordStanlersCup]

In terms of "can't limit themselves" the only player I could imagine that is referencing is Geekie, right? No way he trades Kuch, Point, Guentzel, Hagel, Cirelli, Vasy or Hedman. He has high praise for McDonagh and Moser. Cernak would be a nightmare to replace trying to find another RHD, and Paul for only 3mil is a valuable part of this team.

 

[DFC]

In terms of "can't limit themselves" the only player I could imagine that is referencing is Geekie, right? No way he trades Kuch, Point, Guentzel, Hagel, Cirelli, Vasy or Hedman. He has high praise for McDonagh and Moser. Cernak would be a nightmare to replace trying to find another RHD, and Paul for only 3mil is a valuable part of this team.

You'd never get enough value for the main guys. And Hagel's contract is so good he might as well be untouchable.

From Cirelli down it's probably "Well if someone makes a crazy offer..." but only barely plausible.

He will be looking to upgrade at positions/roles. So yeah, Geekie might actually be on the table. I think it would take a very good win-now player though.

 

[JTBF81]

Noah Hanifin to the Lightning?

Discussion of the Tampa Bay Lightning’s NHL trade deadline battle plan begins with Noah Hanifin. It’s at least possible that it ends with him, too.The Lightning aren’t alone in their pursuit of the 27-year-old Calgary Flames defenseman. Every contender could use someone with his size, skating...

www.nytimes.com

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We liked him enough to have an agreed upon contract, but too short on picks/prospects to ultimately get it done. I don't see any other way to look at it than the cost of the Jeannot deal preventing us from getting Hanifin.

And yet everything Calgary got from Vegas (cond. '25 1st, cond. 3rd, and an okay 3rd pairing dman) are things Tampa could have matched. If Calgary honestly thought they were going to get Vegas's '25 1st with the condition that was set, they were kidding themselves. Since we don't know JBB's offer, who knows how much he was willing to part with, but a '26 1st+conditional lesser pick and one of Raddysh/Perbix/Crozier/Lilleberg were certainly pieces Tampa had to offer. The Jeannot trade weakened their asset pool and re-signing him cost them Colton, which I thought was a mistake as soon as they traded him, but it didn't keep them from having what was needed to, in theory, acquire Hanifin.

 

[JTBF81]

In terms of "can't limit themselves" the only player I could imagine that is referencing is Geekie, right? No way he trades Kuch, Point, Guentzel, Hagel, Cirelli, Vasy or Hedman. He has high praise for McDonagh and Moser. Cernak would be a nightmare to replace trying to find another RHD, and Paul for only 3mil is a valuable part of this team.

Yeah, I think the only roster players of any note that would be on the table would be Geekie for high value, and any of the guys like Ace, Chaffee, Perbix, Crozier etc as either salary or a roster player going the other way. I would hope neither Geekie nor Howard were moved, but if it meant JBB was either getting a youngish 2RW with term or one that had an extension locked in, then maybe. If he moves either for a decent, but nothing special 3rd liner ir depth dman, it's likely a bad move imo.

 

[Stelio Kontos]

We should ban the J word.. thinking about that deal makes me want to throw up

 

[Stammertime91]

The guy scored like 18 doinks, 5 tap ins and 1 regular goal. I watched the highlights once and knew this was never happening again

So true. He scored glitch goals that season. Mid flight tip ins, redirects. Pretty sure Josi and co were zipping pucks at him and it worked. He was a flash in the pan offensively and is probably a 10 goal guy the remainder of his career, which isn't bad, but certainly not what we had hoped. His skating was awful from day 1. I mean, flat out awful. Stone hands... I really don't get the overpayment, years later, when those things were clear as day.

 

[Rschmitz]

In terms of "can't limit themselves" the only player I could imagine that is referencing is Geekie, right? No way he trades Kuch, Point, Guentzel, Hagel, Cirelli, Vasy or Hedman. He has high praise for McDonagh and Moser. Cernak would be a nightmare to replace trying to find another RHD, and Paul for only 3mil is a valuable part of this team.

That’s what I see too, or Howard