Speculation: 2024-2025 General Discussion III

[DistantThunderRep]

You guys should really just listen to what he said before getting excited about this.

It was just him speculating about a hypothetical situation about WOULD Carolina actually trade him after already trading for him. Then he casually throws the Lightnings name in the mix with a bunch of good teams he would ASSUME would be interested. Including: Dallas, Vegas, Winnipeg, Toronto etc.

It was nothing more than that.

BUT RANTANEN AND MCDAVID TAMPA BAY LIGHTNING 2025 and 2026!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Rschmitz]

You guys should really just listen to what he said before getting excited about this.

It was just him speculating about a hypothetical situation about WOULD Carolina actually trade him after already trading for him. Then he casually throws the Lightnings name in the mix with a bunch of good teams he would ASSUME would be interested. Including: Dallas, Vegas, Winnipeg, Toronto etc.

It was nothing more than that.

You’re no fun

 

[bov]

I do think TB would push hard for Rantanen if available, but Carolina is also a contender so a package of mostly futures wouldn't do the trick unless there was some other plan with a 3rd team. I don't see Cirelli or Hagel being traded mid-season, especially for a guy who could hit UFA. It would have to be a trade where TB empties the cupboard.

 

[LTIR Trickery]

Why would you trade Hagel to make space for Rantanen? Like whats the point

 

[creg]

Cirelli is not getting traded and there is not a chance in the world that Hagel is getting moved, JBB has already said like 3 times that going forward is about adding to the roster without subtracting

(not to mention the fact that it would be insane to move a young, amazing player locked up on a great contract to sign a free agent who literally left the contending team he was drafted from because he wanted more money)

 

[Rschmitz]

I had to triple check just to make sure that no one here was actually suggesting we trade Hagel for Rantanen. I wouldn’t trade Hagel straight up for anyone else in this league.

 

[Master P]

You guys should really just listen to what he said before getting excited about this.

It was just him speculating about a hypothetical situation about WOULD Carolina actually trade him after already trading for him. Then he casually throws the Lightnings name in the mix with a bunch of good teams he would ASSUME would be interested. Including: Dallas, Vegas, Winnipeg, Toronto etc.

It was nothing more than that.

Every party needs a pooper thats why they invited you. Party Pooper.... Party Pooper.

 

[Flat Ronnie]

I had to triple check just to make sure that no one here was actually suggesting we trade Hagel for Rantanen. I wouldn’t trade Hagel straight up for anyone else in this league.

Nobody in the league?

 

[JTBF81]

Yeah, Rantanen is a very unlikely acquisition. Unless it was 100% guaranteed that he was extending in Tampa, and at an aav that Tampa could actually afford and still make other improvements (which isn't happening given what he's likely going to want), Tampa should not trade the amount of quality assets it would take to get him. Even if he doesn't want to re-sign in Carolina, I don't see why a legit contender like Carolina moves him at the deadline after what they traded to acquire him. Unless some team just offers them an insane overpay for what could be a rental, they should just keep him as their own rental.

 

[Rschmitz]

Nobody in the league?

Quinn Hughes is the closest but still not close

 

[Rschmitz]

Yeah, Rantanen is a very unlikely acquisition. Unless it was 100% guaranteed that he was extending in Tampa, and at an aav that Tampa could actually afford and still make other improvements (which isn't happening given what he's likely going to want), Tampa should not trade the amount of quality assets it would take to get him. Even if he doesn't want to re-sign in Carolina, I don't see why a legit contender like Carolina moves him at the deadline after what they traded to acquire him. Unless some team just offers them an insane overpay for what could be a rental, they should just keep him as their own rental.

If we signed him in the off-season, would we really need to make any other improvements? Depending on how much stock you put in Geekie and Howard, looks on paper like the best lineup we’ve ever iced

 

[Major4Boarding]

My FIL was a business associate and close friend to one of the other minority owners in the OK Hockey group.

There was no love lost for Barrie, who was trying to run the show despite not ponying up like the others. There were multiple cash calls and Barrie couldn’t or wouldn’t (IIRC his wealth was tied to the prospects of a real estate project in B.C.) muster his share of the funds.

They were all in over their heads, but Koules (who might have been going through a divorce at the time — some of the details escape me after so long) was trying to do right by the franchise and certainly put a lot of his own dough on the table.

Vinik, of course, was a godsend.

Accurate

 

[DFC]

Kind of makes sense. And falls in line with what we did last year with Guentzel. He's the right age and the right kind of player. Contract would put us back in handcuffed territory, but wow what a top six for a couple of years.

If we signed him in the off-season, would we really need to make any other improvements? Depending on how much stock you put in Geekie and Howard, looks on paper like the best lineup we’ve ever iced

I think it's our best top6, but it's still not close to our 2020 line up depth-wise, and in terms of two-way play.

But yeah the top six is a legit all star team.

 

[Master P]

 

[AlwaysSunnyInTampa]

Hubba hubba

 

[creg]

Messed around with how fitting Rantanen would look like and while I still thing they'd be better served using the cap space to add depth throughout the roster it could be done assuming you can convince him to sign like 8x11?

This would be running a 20 man roster though, which seems unlikely so more realistically you'd probably replace Dowd with a plug or the corpse of Glendenning and then keep Gage or something.

I think a part of this that hasn't been talked about though is how bad it would look on Canes management if they went all in on a Star player only to lose them to Tampa 2 years straight, so among the many reasons why I think this wouldn't make a ton of sense for Tampa I also think Canes would want to avoid this outcome.

 

[Master P]

Messed around with how fitting Rantanen would look like and while I still thing they'd be better served using the cap space to add depth throughout the roster it could be done assuming you can convince him to sign like 8x11?

View attachment 980801

This would be running a 20 man roster though, which seems unlikely so more realistically you'd probably replace Dowd with a plug or the corpse of Glendenning and then keep Gage or something.

I think a part of this that hasn't been talked about though is how bad it would look on Canes management if they went all in on a Star player only to lose them to Tampa 2 years straight, so among the many reasons why I think this wouldn't make a ton of sense for Tampa I also think Canes would want to avoid this outcome.

He would be a nice addition for sure, but that lack of center depth jumps out like a sore thumb. I

 

[Rschmitz]

Messed around with how fitting Rantanen would look like and while I still thing they'd be better served using the cap space to add depth throughout the roster it could be done assuming you can convince him to sign like 8x11?

View attachment 980801

This would be running a 20 man roster though, which seems unlikely so more realistically you'd probably replace Dowd with a plug or the corpse of Glendenning and then keep Gage or something.

I think a part of this that hasn't been talked about though is how bad it would look on Canes management if they went all in on a Star player only to lose them to Tampa 2 years straight, so among the many reasons why I think this wouldn't make a ton of sense for Tampa I also think Canes would want to avoid this outcome.

Isn’t Chaffee signed for next season? Just keep him instead of Dowd

 

[DFC]

I'm not saying you have to have that exact roster and talent. But you're basically connecting the dots as to why I've been howling for 2 years that we need to stop the 40 minutes of rope a dope and switch to a completely different scheme. We suck at this. Unless JBB pulls a rabbit out of his, I don't see this team getting far. Because you're right. We aren't replicating the back to back teams.

Look at the support it took to get the likes of Stamkos, Vasy, Hedman and Kucherov to a title in the system we played. Day 1 hall of famers. 4 trips to the promised land and it took anomaly rosters to win the whole thing. But that's what I am weighing our needs against because those are the teams that got it done. Becuase brother I am completely out of ideas beyond trying to replicate dumb luck and miracle rosters if we're gonna be this damn stubborn about 40 minutes of rope a dope being our identity. Believe me. I am acutely aware of how crazy it sounds.

But the whole thing is circular thinking because it sounds like the Lightning will NOT be changing their minds and it leaves me back to how we need to replace, 2 checking lines and a Stamkos.


Having a greater abundance of prospects since 2020 beyond Colton would have solved almost all these problems

The mistake you're making is in assuming it took the 2020 roster to win. It took that roster to bulldoze, especially after we changed the system. Suddenly we had star players willing to play like grinders. Guess who's doing that now? The Leafs. Because their old way of playing does not work in the playoffs. That was true for us too. It wasn't the personnel changes as much as it was the system changes. As much as we loved Gourde and Coleman, etc, they didn't score much in the playoffs.

You know who did the same thing once upon a time? Scott Bowman. He took an extremely talented Wings team and made them play a version of the trap. Because a much, much less talented team destroyed them in the playoffs the year before with a similar system.

We might suck at this system, but it's still our best chance. We don't have the personnelle to win on skill alone. Teams who win tend to know how to park the bus. Sometimes they're better at creating turnovers and pouncing, but it all starts the same way.

 

[Rschmitz]

He would be a nice addition for sure, but that lack of center depth jumps out like a sore thumb. I

I feel like Point/Cirelli/Paul down the middle is pretty awesome

 

[Master P]

I feel like Point/Cirelli/Paul down the middle is pretty awesome

Cirelli is a 3C imo.

 

[DFC]

I feel like Point/Cirelli/Paul down the middle is pretty awesome

There's no doubt that Rantanen is the actual perfect solution to our forward issues. Like if you could just acquire any player, no strings attached, the only thing better would be if he had a big right handed shot.

Cirelli is a 3C imo.

I think he's proven himself this year. Maybe not an elite 2C, but he's shown that he's a good 2C.

 

[creg]

Isn’t Chaffee signed for next season? Just keep him instead of Dowd

He is, I just really don't like his game and would hope we'd get a couple of defense first players to round out the roster

 

[EmptyNetAssassin]

Who can we sacrifice for Brady Tkachuk?

Anyone not named kucherov , Moser. Hagel, or point.

 

[bov]

Messed around with how fitting Rantanen would look like and while I still thing they'd be better served using the cap space to add depth throughout the roster it could be done assuming you can convince him to sign like 8x11?

View attachment 980801

This would be running a 20 man roster though, which seems unlikely so more realistically you'd probably replace Dowd with a plug or the corpse of Glendenning and then keep Gage or something.

I think a part of this that hasn't been talked about though is how bad it would look on Canes management if they went all in on a Star player only to lose them to Tampa 2 years straight, so among the many reasons why I think this wouldn't make a ton of sense for Tampa I also think Canes would want to avoid this outcome.

Geekie, Howard, Groshev....and you got rid of a third of TB forwards. What is going on here.

Geekie has 3 points in 6 games with Syracuse and is far from being guaranteed a regular role in the NHL later this season. He wasn't effective at all as the season wore on. What makes people think he'll be playing regularly when the stakes are even higher and the games are more difficult?

Howard may get a look later in the season, but penciling him into the top 9 with no NHL games under his belt...he would have to be exceptional to earn that. Seems highly unlikely.

Groshev isn't even a top 10 player in Syracuse.