2024-2025 Blues Trade Proposals Thread.

[Spektre]

We could absolutely acquire and sign Dobson for that kind of money without getting rid of major salary.

We have $5M of cap space plus we will get $6.5M in LTIR relief from Krug. That is with 14 forwards (including Dvorsky), 7 D, and 1 goalie on the roster and it assumes $2.1M in bonus overages that Puckpedia has reported we will be taking. If we traded Dobson for pure futures, signed him at $10M AAV, and sent down Kessell (our cheapest D man) to fit him on the roster, that would leave us with $2.3M in cap space with 22 guys on the roster.

That might not be enough for Hofer, but I don't think he is going to get $3.5M. If he does it is because we are buying more term than we need to. There were only 26 goalies who made $3.5M this year and there are 30 guys under contract for $3.5M for 2025/26. I'm guessing he comes in under $3M AAV on a 2 year deal.

Sending back Joseph or Leddy would create the space to give Hofer his extension and to be able to go after a center in the $2-$3M range. There are a hell of a lot of options to cut enough salary than sending a big contract to the Isles. Leddy, Joseph, and Texier are all very much expendable pieces going into next season and combine for $9M against the cap. Moving some/all of them frees up more than enough room for Dobson @ $10M plus a non-budget middle 6 C.

You'll have to see my other post about puckpedia not being able to count.

 

[STL fan in MN]

PuckPedia is factoring a bonus overage amount that I don't believe have been confirmed officially by NHL, it's a number that they calculated. I've been skeptical of the number they came up with too.

Suter earned an extra $2.225M in performance bonuses. Bolduc was also eligible for $412.5k in performance bonuses. I bet he hit them (but the details of his bonuses aren’t out there like Suter’s are so I can’t say for sure).

I didn’t pay attention to the cap much at the end of the season but they did call up a lot of players (and signed Snuggy) and I think had 26 guys on the roster for a bit there. So I wouldn’t be surprised if they used up most of their cap space, including the LTIR pool, and then the end of year bonuses put them over. The $2,153,475 bonus overage PuckPedia shows could very well be accurate.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Suter earned an extra $2.225M in performance bonuses. Bolduc was also eligible for $412.5k in performance bonuses. I bet he hit them (but the details of his bonuses aren’t out there like Suter’s are so I can’t say for sure).

I didn’t pay attention to the cap much at the end of the season but they did call up a lot of players (and signed Snuggy) and I think had 26 guys on the roster for a bit there. So I wouldn’t be surprised if they used up most of their cap space, including the LTIR pool, and then the end of year bonuses put them over. The $2,153,475 bonus overage PuckPedia shows could very well be accurate.

I'm not saying it's for sure wrong, just that I'm waiting on official numbers. And as far as trying to fit hypothetical moves in, I think Army has enough flexibility and would be able to dump someone like Leddy relatively easily.

 

[Xanadude]

What do you think bringing in someone and giving them 10m/yr would do to Holloway and Brobergs next contracts?

Here let me just give an example. Tavaras to Toronto and Mathews and Marner.

IMO the problem in Toronto giving out those contracts wasn't those contracts being pricey, it was that they were for four forwards. Their D and goaltending has always been a flavor of mess.

Unlike Toronto, we have Parayko, Kyrou and Thomas locked forever in at very, very reasonable cap hits. Besides, if Holloway stays a 70 point, defensively elite winger with game breaking speed...that's arguably worth 10 million. And if Broberg takes that next step, dude is worth around 10 million as well. With a 120 million cap just a little while away, I think it's more pragmatic than ever to shell out on elite talent.

To clarify, Dobson's big deal would kick in ASAP. He's a pending RFA and will need a contract for next season. If he elects to go to arbitration, he will get a 1 year award and become a UFA in the summer of 2026. Under no circumstances should we try to acquire him without an agreed upon long term contract that starts in 2025/26.

This is the main reason I'm not all-in on going after him. He holds basically all the leverage and should be using that leverage to get overpaid.

Ah, didn't see that. Honestly, that favors us IMO. If Dobson is going to play hardball and force a move, I can't imagine anyone would be so dumb as to try and rent his RFA year and pray for an extension mid-season. If Dobson wants out (doesn't want to be in a rebuild, hates Roy being my two guesses as to why), I'm honestly thinking a 1 for 1 with Kyrou might be what does it.

It bogs down when you look at July 1st. That's when Kyrou's NMC kicks in. If we're shipping Kyrou for Dobson (and I've always found it weird Rutherford straight up said he can't see Kyrou being here through this contract. Way too specific of a thing for him to say), it has to be before July 1st.

That same day is when Faulk, Schenn and IIRC Leddy submit their NTC lists, though. So if we need to move a vet to make room, there has to be a trade agreed to ahead of time or a really quick 1/2 of trade announcements.

Also, timeframe-wise: That's after the draft. So if 19 OA is in play in a Rossi/Dobson/whoever trade, that trade has to be agreed to ahead of those NTCs going up and NMCs coming out. woof.

Honestly, it doesn't have to be Rossi, but I see 19OA being used for our middle-six C trade, then a second deal...if we have one...coming one of the last days in June.

But let's face it, as much as I'd love shiny new names to plug our roster holes until I'm 5 years from retirement, this is getting to be some EA GM stuff.

 

[TheOrganist]

Kyrou for Dobson would be dumb. You don’t trade an established 35 goal guy who is a huge part of what could become one of the best second lines in the league in his prime at a bargain contract for a guy 1 yr away from free agency. You offer a younger piece or prospect like Stenberg (they’d prob ask for Bolduc) and a first and Faulk and then a decision would have to made by the Blues assuming they agree to a long term deal with Dobson. We all love Bolduc but I think that’s a no brainer.

 

[Beninnola]

Kyrou for Dobson would be dumb. You don’t trade an established 35 goal guy who is a huge part of what could become one of the best second lines in the league in his prime at a bargain contract for a guy 1 yr away from free agency. You offer a younger piece or prospect like Stenberg (they’d prob ask for Bolduc) and a first and Faulk and then a decision would have to made by the Blues assuming they agree to a long term deal with Dobson. We all love Bolduc but I think that’s a no brainer.

Taylor hall - previously first oa - was 25 when traded one for one for a 24 y/o 6’3” rhd with 1 year remaining. I think the islanders would point at stuff like this if they’re considering offers, be able to demand a full time young bonafide top 6 skater. I think Dobson’s gonna be expensive (Kyrou/Neighbors) if he moves but I think I hope I’m wrong.

 

[Xanadude]

Kyrou for Dobson would be dumb. You don’t trade an established 35 goal guy who is a huge part of what could become one of the best second lines in the league in his prime at a bargain contract for a guy 1 yr away from free agency. You offer a younger piece or prospect like Stenberg (they’d prob ask for Bolduc) and a first and Faulk and then a decision would have to made by the Blues assuming they agree to a long term deal with Dobson. We all love Bolduc but I think that’s a no brainer.

In no way should we trade for Dobson without an extension. The rental business is a losing business. My interest in Dobson is wholly based on him being an RFA and the fact we could sign and trade for him through his prime, as NYI fans at least seem to think he's hesitant to continue playing on Long Island.

I'd prefer to do it without Kyrou too: like you said, Bolduc, Faulk and 19OA would probably be fair and better for us--but it's not about fair, it's about outbidding 5-10 other interested teams. Dobson is a rare commodity: a right-handed defenseman who has nearly hit a PPG AND a competent defensive game--and the dude is 24. When is the last time a guy like him became available? PK Subban?

Any other bidder for Dobson probably doesn't have a player of the caliber of Kyrou who is available, whether due to a NTC or due to the fact they can't part with a scorer like that. Losing Kyrou would hurt, it would, but we have a plethora of wingers (Snuggs hasn't had a full season and ; we have bupkis at RHD besides Jiricek, who is years away.

Another complication is Faulk's NTC. He could happily block a trade to NYI (and I wouldn't blame him if they're rebuilding and likely to ship him at the deadline anyway).

Again, I'd prefer for you to be right! I'm just thinking that, if we want to get a long-term solution of the caliber of Dobson, our best trade piece might have to go the other way.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

Palmeri signed extension with NYI

 

[bleedblue1223]

Any sane team trading for Dobson will likely have somewhat of an agreement on an extension already worked out.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

Unless we are at the same time trading for another top 6 forward I'm not sure Armstrong wants to put the young kids in a sink or swim situation where we have to put pressure on Snuggerud, Bolduc, and Neighbours where they have to replace Kyrou's 35 goals during Armstrong's last season as GM.

I feel like he wants to make one last push in the playoffs and his main goal is to add a Middle 6 C and depth on the defense rather than to throw a Hail Mary in getting rid of our top goal scorer for a Defenseman when he said that he's happy with the top 4.

 

[BleedBlue14]

Taylor hall - previously first oa - was 25 when traded one for one for a 24 y/o 6’3” rhd with 1 year remaining. I think the islanders would point at stuff like this if they’re considering offers, be able to demand a full time young bonafide top 6 skater. I think Dobson’s gonna be expensive (Kyrou/Neighbors) if he moves but I think I hope I’m wrong.

The contract situation is the separator here.

We locked up Kyrou and Thomas at the best time possible. This massive cap increase has really increased the value of a lot of our long term contracts.

It also gives us the ability to point to Holloway not being paid more than Thomas/Kyrou when negotiating going forward (although I’m sure his camp could point to the cap increase pretty easily) the only questionable one is Buchy, but I understand why we did it. It just complicates things a bit when we have the stable of forwards trying to break into the league.

 

[BleedBlue14]

Unless we are at the same time trading for another top 6 forward I'm not sure Armstrong wants to put the young kids in a sink or swim situation where we have to put pressure on Snuggerud, Bolduc, and Neighbours where they have to replace Kyrou's 35 goals during Armstrong's last season as GM.

I feel like he wants to make one last push in the playoffs and his main goal is to add a Middle 6 C and depth on the defense rather than to throw a Hail Mary in getting rid of our top goal scorer for a Defenseman when he said that he's happy with the top 4.

I’m about 99% sure that’s the direction we will go - especially with Steen taking over next year. It’s the most logical thing to do when we have as big of a stable of youth knocking on the door and at the NHL level as we do right now.


I think they would entertain something like Dobson but it’s just super unlikely anything like that comes to fruition.

 

[TheOrganist]

In no way should we trade for Dobson without an extension. The rental business is a losing business. My interest in Dobson is wholly based on him being an RFA and the fact we could sign and trade for him through his prime, as NYI fans at least seem to think he's hesitant to continue playing on Long Island.

I'd prefer to do it without Kyrou too: like you said, Bolduc, Faulk and 19OA would probably be fair and better for us--but it's not about fair, it's about outbidding 5-10 other interested teams. Dobson is a rare commodity: a right-handed defenseman who has nearly hit a PPG AND a competent defensive game--and the dude is 24. When is the last time a guy like him became available? PK Subban?

Any other bidder for Dobson probably doesn't have a player of the caliber of Kyrou who is available, whether due to a NTC or due to the fact they can't part with a scorer like that. Losing Kyrou would hurt, it would, but we have a plethora of wingers (Snuggs hasn't had a full season and ; we have bupkis at RHD besides Jiricek, who is years away.

Another complication is Faulk's NTC. He could happily block a trade to NYI (and I wouldn't blame him if they're rebuilding and likely to ship him at the deadline anyway).

Again, I'd prefer for you to be right! I'm just thinking that, if we want to get a long-term solution of the caliber of Dobson, our best trade piece might have to go the other way.

“Dumb” was a little harsh and sorry if I wasn’t clear…I was saying I would not be huge fan of a Kyrou/Dobson swap even with the extension in place as that would obviously be a requirement for any hypothetical deal. The “surplus winger” argument is legit but when you factor in Kyrou’s amazing contract it gives me a lot of pause. And just thinking from Armstrong’s POV, yes you address a huge hole at RD but you make the forward group worse in the short term and I think he’s looking to supplement the core group as we exit the retool, not go lateral.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

“Dumb” was a little harsh and sorry if I wasn’t clear…I was saying I would not be huge fan of a Kyrou/Dobson swap even with the extension in place as that would obviously be a requirement for any hypothetical deal. The “surplus winger” argument is legit but when you factor in Kyrou’s amazing contract it gives me a lot of pause. And just thinking from Armstrong’s POV, yes you address a huge hole at RD but you make the forward group worse in the short term and I think he’s looking to supplement the core group as we exit the retool, not go lateral.

This is true, but RD is higher value position than RW. I’m not generally in favor of trading Kyrou but if we think Dobson can be top pair quality RD (and can live with his contact) that would be quite tempting.

 

[Xanadude]

“Dumb” was a little harsh and sorry if I wasn’t clear…I was saying I would not be huge fan of a Kyrou/Dobson swap even with the extension in place as that would obviously be a requirement for any hypothetical deal. The “surplus winger” argument is legit but when you factor in Kyrou’s amazing contract it gives me a lot of pause. And just thinking from Armstrong’s POV, yes you address a huge hole at RD but you make the forward group worse in the short term and I think he’s looking to supplement the core group as we exit the retool, not go lateral.

No biggie man. I totally understand your perspective and trading Kyrou would blast a pretty big hole in our scoring that we'd struggle to fill, and certainly not for the price Kyrou went for. I agree moving a pick and spare parts for Zacha or Rossi is a more pragmatic way to get better next year.

Still, every time I think about Kyrou's NTC on July 1st I'm reminded of that random Athletic Q&A last year where Rutherford, who usually says next to nothing about our trade targets or intentions, outright stated he didn't think Kyrou would finish this contract here in STL (paraphrasing). The fact that he's mainly been a character piece author the last few years makes that statement all the more weird.

When it comes to short term, I think a good middle-six center probably gets us the same result as this year, maybe 1.6 seconds better (if I don't laugh about it I'll cry). The thing I'm worried about is how old our defense is, top to bottom. Fowler, Faulk and Leddy are all geriatics by NHL metrics and Father Time is undefeated.

Getting Dobson for Kyrou and then moving Leddy or Faulk in a related move would hurt our scoring for a while, no doubt, but Dobson until 2033 I think sets us up much, much better as a franchise, especially with Bolduc and Snuggy knocking on the door, Stenberg and Dvorsky about a year away and wild cards like Stancl still in the system....as opposed to RHD, where we have Jiricek 3 years away, and that's about it.

 

[BadgersandBlues]

Someone asked earlier if I'd be OK with a 7x7 for Rossi and I'm pretty sure that's a resounding yes from me. Right now we're paying Schenn 6.5 to ostensibly be our 2nd line Center, with the hope that we could push him down to 3C at that cap number. Compared to Schenn, Rossi is a better player overall, but more importantly, he wasn't carried by the top wingers on his team the way Schenn was. For reference, Rossi without Kaprizov or Boldy had a 56% xGF% with slightly favorable usage. Schenn without Kyrou or Holloway had a 38% xGF%, albeit in far more defensive usage. Both obviously benefited from playing with top wingers, but Rossi showed that he wasn't dependent on them the way I feel Schenn is (That's a personal judgement though, I wil concede that it's hard to compare Schenn's time without Kyrou and Holloway to Rossi's time without Kaprizov and Boldy as they were used in much different situations).

If we're comfortable paying Schenn 6.5M as our 2C, I don't see why we wouldn't be comfortable paying Rossi 7M as our 2C - he still has four years of RFA status where he can't ask for any contractual trade protection, so if something does go horribly wrong or we don't think we can win with him in the playoffs, we can always trade him to a team looking for regular season success, which he has proven more then capable of providing.

With the cap rising so exponentially, the time is NOW to start locking in young talent. Thomas and Kyrou are on deals that already look amazing, and will continue to age exceptionally well. 7M for a 2C is going to look like a steal within another year or two. I'm not full-throated advocating that Rossi should be "our guy," but getting guys signed long term before the market REALLY resets could be extremely beneficial to extending our core window and allowing us the flexibility to have the type of depth only Florida/Dallas has seemed to figure out. I'd be pushing pretty hard to get Broberg and Holloway signed this off-season, before the cap jumps again and more and more players start asking for silly amounts of money.

 

[Mike Liut]

With a healthy Holloway, I’m not sure we are very far behind the final 4 teams in the playoffs. TBH, I’m not sure we are behind at all, evident by having the best record in the NHL post 4 nations tourney. I’d rather package our #1 and a couple prospects for a legit 2C/3C, than make a blockbuster and trade Kyrou. We have a really good team and our window is now while Binner, Parayko and Schenn are still playing well.

 

[BleedBlue14]

This is true, but RD is higher value position than RW. I’m not generally in favor of trading Kyrou but if we think Dobson can be top pair quality RD (and can live with his contact) that would be quite tempting.

In trading Kyrou we’re heavily distressing Schenn and Holloways production and really killing any chance to have two really strong lines. Dobson will likely make up for a bit of the offense lost, but then we’re taking away from Fowler if we’re putting Dobson on PP1.

Yes RHD is a harder position to fill successfully, but we aren’t to the point where moving Kyrou is a good idea in my mind even if it does fill another value position. Liklihood of us replacing the production on L2 is small. We should point more towards L3 and help support Bolduc to get him in to a position where we could realistically see him take a step again.

 

[shpongle falls]

I want to see a full season of Holly and Rou on a line under Monty. Ideally they upgrade the 2c but if not I’m good with Schenn in that spot for more season, that line was incredible.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

In trading Kyrou we’re heavily distressing Schenn and Holloways production and really killing any chance to have two really strong lines. Dobson will likely make up for a bit of the offense lost, but then we’re taking away from Fowler if we’re putting Dobson on PP1.

Yes RHD is a harder position to fill successfully, but we aren’t to the point where moving Kyrou is a good idea in my mind even if it does fill another value position. Liklihood of us replacing the production on L2 is small. We should point more towards L3 and help support Bolduc to get him in to a position where we could realistically see him take a step again.

This would be a deal for next 5 years, not just this year. Would likely make us worse in short run.

 

[DatDude44]

Hypothetically if a Kyrou for Dobson type deal came through.

What’s the next move? Trust bolduc with more opportunity/responsibility? Go after Boeser? Would be interesting to see what would happen up front especially with our need for 2C not changing

 

[bleedblue1223]

Hypothetically if a Kyrou for Dobson type deal came through.

What’s the next move? Trust bolduc with more opportunity/responsibility? Go after Boeser? Would be interesting to see what would happen up front especially with our need for 2C not changing

Some top 6 winger acquisition. Acquiring some sort of a Kyrou replacement is easier than finding a Dobson. Because of the youth we have coming up, it really doesn't even have to be a young winger either.

 

[WeWentBlues]

Hypothetically if a Kyrou for Dobson type deal came through.

What’s the next move? Trust bolduc with more opportunity/responsibility? Go after Boeser? Would be interesting to see what would happen up front especially with our need for 2C not changing

Some potential options out there to replace goal scoring from a Kyrou trade:
Patrick Kane UFA
Jonathan Marchessault Trade
Steven Stamkos Trade
Mitch Marner UFA
Brock Boeser UFA
Rickard Rakell Trade
Bryan Rust Trade
Kevin Fiala Trade
Ryan Donato UFA
Tyler Toffoli Trade
Evander Kane Trade
Patrick Laine Trade

I have serious concerns about the impact to the Holloway and Schenn line without Kyrou though.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

Some potential options out there to replace goal scoring from a Kyrou trade:
Patrick Kane UFA
Jonathan Marchessault Trade
Steven Stamkos Trade
Mitch Marner UFA
Brock Boeser UFA
Rickard Rakell Trade
Bryan Rust Trade
Kevin Fiala Trade
Ryan Donato UFA
Tyler Toffoli Trade
Evander Kane Trade
Patrick Laine Trade

I have serious concerns about the impact to Holloway and Schenn like without Kyrou though.

I have concerns as well, but it was Holloway driving that line.

 

[greybush314]

Kyrou to Buffalo for Peterka and the 9th oa

Peterka is an upgrade to Kyrou imo but Kyrou's contract gives the Blues more value in the trade