2024-2025 Blues Trade Proposals Thread.

[bleedblue1223]

Size on winger isn't nearly as big of a deal as size at C or D. I know it just sounds like an old-timer argument, but there's a lot of truth to it. There's 0 chance that Army does a move like that, unless the plan isn't to immediately move him to wing, which then makes the whole move even more pointless.

 

[SirPaste]

Size at center does matter though, especially in the playoffs. How many 5'9" centers have excelled in the playoffs in recent years?

Tyler Johnson and Yanni Gourde come to mind

 

[ToastedRavioli]

Red flag right there. Sorry, no interest whatsoever in Rossi.

Not sure I understand this perspective. Because he was hurt and played through it in the playoffs (as countless players do), that's a massive red flag? Kyrou and Thomas were also rumored to be hurt this playoffs, and Kyrou's production was worse than Rossi's. Holloway missed the entire playoffs with an injury. Why is playing through an injury in a single playoff series a big enough red flag to write off the player entirely? People are also way overhyping his playoff struggles. He scored 2 goals and 1 assist in 6 games while playing injured with limited ice time. That's a better PPG than what Bolduc, Schenn, and Kyrou had in our playoff series and they all had more ice time than him.

 

[joe galiba]

Rossi=Cliff Ronning?

 

[STL fan in MN]

Well, you made it sound like there is a sense of urgency in pushing to open a window at legit contention based on Binnington's contract being up in two years. E.g.

If the Blues don't do xyz, something terrible (Binner not being here) will happen. So what then should we do? We better do something, or else. To me, that sounds like panic.

FWIW, I don't think signing Rossi alone puts us in the neighborhood of contention. We're not winning a 7-game series against Florida because Rossi is our 2C next year. I do think he's an obvious improvement over any internal option we have at the moment, though. He's far from an ideal fit, but there isn't a very long list of those guys to pick from either.

How about next time you just ask me to clarify instead of assuming (incorrectly in this case), ok?

To me, the urgency came from Doug Armstrong himself when he said in his presser that the “re-whatever” is now over and the aim is to be competitive again. But no, that doesn’t mean panic moves. But it does create a sense of urgency IMO. To me, the acquisitions of Broberg and Holloway improved the team to where it moved up the timeline of the re-whatever by about 2 years. So yeah, I think they should try to supplement the team if they can. Try to pull off a ROR style trade if they can. Much easier said than done though. The opportunity may simply not be available. But given the ages of Binner, Parayko and even Thomas now, the window is pretty much now IMO. If not, then they’ll likely need to wait until the core of Dvorsky, Snuggy, Lindstein, Stenberg etc are reaching their peaks with guys like Thomas, Parayko etc most likely playing a bit lesser role by then.

The way I see it, the Blues have an opportunity to have 2 windows…or one pretty long continuous window depending on how you look at it, as long as they play their cards right. But that doesn’t mean I want them to make a panic move. Far from it. Adding another contract that’s likely to be the next albatross on the back half of the deal won’t help. They need a ROR type of deal (even better if we trade away a Bokk type of prospect and not a Thompson type of prospect but you also have to give to get). Can Army find that sort of deal? Idk. But the window is there if he’s able to open it.

 

[DatDude44]

JP Pageau has 1-yr remaining, is a beast in the face-off circle and will only make $3.5M (with a $5M cap-hit). He may not be the answer to 2C...but he could be an improvement over Sunny at 3C for another year while we bide our time awaiting Dvorsky's arrival.

I'd actually love this. He's a great details and PK guy. He's gritty and hard to play against. If his Cost of acquisition is cheap i don't mind this at all.

 

[DatDude44]

I would love to get Dobson but are you prepared to pay him 10 million per season?

Honestly, I'd be fine with that. 10 mill now with the new cap ceiling and the projected cap ceilings moving forward would make that an extremely ideal contract honestly. I could see that aging like John Carlsons did where it seemed crazy he signed for so much at the time, then as time went that contract got better and better

And we'd be paying through Dobsons true prime.

 

[Bluesnatic27]

Honestly, I'd be fine with that. 10 mill now with the new cap ceiling and the projected cap ceilings moving forward would make that an extremely ideal contract honestly. I could see that aging like John Carlsons did where it seemed crazy he signed for so much at the time, then as time went that contract got better and better

And we'd be paying through Dobsons true prime.

Agreed.

I’ve also found the whole, “Dobson can’t play defense” schtick overblown. Maybe it’s the system he’s played in but he’s put up respectable defensive metrics throughout the last three years he’s played. Even last year he wasn’t close to as bad as people here claim him to be.

If Dobson is on the market, I want the Blues to go after him full force. I value what he can bring more than what a #2C would quite frankly. Get both, but I’d focus on defense if I were GM.

 

[DatDude44]

Agreed.

I’ve also found the whole, “Dobson can’t play defense” schtick overblown. Maybe it’s the system he’s played in but he’s put up respectable defensive metrics throughout the last three years he’s played. Even last year he wasn’t close to as bad as people here claim him to be.

If Dobson is on the market, I want the Blues to go after him full force. I value what he can bring more than what a #2C would quite frankly. Get both, but I’d focus on defense if I were GM.

For sure, if we have a suitor to take faulk or leddys contract off our books right now. We'd be crazy not to go all in on Dobson. Our D core would be unbelievable. We'd have the elite shutdown RHD in Parayko who can take on the tougher matchups and Dobson can thrive in that Shattenkirk esque #2 role while running our PP etc.... And I think him and Broberg would be an incredible 2nd pair, probably the best in the league.

And we don't exactly have another Noah Dobson lined up in our prospect pool, whereas Dvorsky even though he isn't ready for that type of role yet, is atleast in the system and should be our 2C long term very soon. Dobson would be a god send while we develop lindstein and Jiricek while competing for a cup currently with Fowler, parayko and broberg. Then when parayko and fowler etc... move on/ retire.... Dobson will be our #1 in his late 20's/ early 30's which timeframe wise is ideal and then he'd captain the ship with prime broberg, Lindstein and Jiricek supporting him.

 

[MortiestOfMortys]

How about next time you just ask me to clarify instead of assuming (incorrectly in this case), ok?

To me, the urgency came from Doug Armstrong himself when he said in his presser that the “re-whatever” is now over and the aim is to be competitive again. But no, that doesn’t mean panic moves. But it does create a sense of urgency IMO. To me, the acquisitions of Broberg and Holloway improved the team to where it moved up the timeline of the re-whatever by about 2 years. So yeah, I think they should try to supplement the team if they can. Try to pull off a ROR style trade if they can. Much easier said than done though. The opportunity may simply not be available. But given the ages of Binner, Parayko and even Thomas now, the window is pretty much now IMO. If not, then they’ll likely need to wait until the core of Dvorsky, Snuggy, Lindstein, Stenberg etc are reaching their peaks with guys like Thomas, Parayko etc most likely playing a bit lesser role by then.

The way I see it, the Blues have an opportunity to have 2 windows…or one pretty long continuous window depending on how you look at it, as long as they play their cards right. But that doesn’t mean I want them to make a panic move. Far from it. Adding another contract that’s likely to be the next albatross on the back half of the deal won’t help. They need a ROR type of deal (even better if we trade away a Bokk type of prospect and not a Thompson type of prospect but you also have to give to get). Can Army find that sort of deal? Idk. But the window is there if he’s able to open it.

I mostly agree. Always in the market for improving the team. And the best way to avoid having deals that sour in the back half (of which we've had our fair share) is to acquire guys who are well short of the usual timeline where that happens. A 7 year deal for a 23 year old is pretty much perfect term. Let somebody else pay their 3rd contract, where they're likely to fall off a cliff and you're paying name brand price for leftovers.

I do kind of think that if we wanted our window to be open now, and take advantage of the relative youth of guys like Parayko and Binner and Thomas, then we should have treated the last 5 years a lot differently. We didn't, and that's a shame.

But to me, you don't intentionally take a step back last year, and make all of the smart moves you've made, just to shift strategies on a dime. I don't want this team to start making the kinds of moves a contender would make. Contenders send prospects and futures out the door for vet rentals -- or acquire them and then sign them to bad third contracts. I would argue we've been very successful the last few years building through the draft and getting core-group-age guys. I don't agree that making the playoffs this year means we ought to move away from that strategy when it's been so successful. And if we want this window to be as long as the last one, I think it's too early to start shifting into another mode.

 

[Xerloris]

We need a stop gap 2C, so why not try to land ROR again?

 

[Xanadude]

I'm also coming around to being a 'go big for Dobson' guy. After talking to Islander fans and going over his numbers, last year was more of a combo of injuries and a pseudo-tanking team than a regression to the norm and his advanced stats were still pretty good. Having Dobson for almost a decade of his prime could cement us as contenders and balances us very, very well--and IMO if he's a + defensive, ppg Defenseman (or even closer to 60 points), 9.5 or 10 mill sounds appropriate today, let alone half a decade from now.

It's not without complications:

a. If we are getting Dobson, we have to shed cap after this year when his big deal would kick in.
b. If you get Dobson, you kinda have to move Faulk. He's Faulk but 10 years younger and better--and the aforementioned cap crunch.
c. Someone could probably beat us in regards to the return, so we would have to hope our ascending status and willingness to pay up would make us a better suitor.
d. You don't want to totally tear the forward core apart. I'd try to limit any forward going the other way to Bolduc at most. Ideally we'd do something like Bolduc + Jiricek or Bolduc + 19OA.

There's a part of me that wants to see us fit in both Dobson and Rossi without giving up Dvorsky or Kyrou, if possible. It's risky, but if they both pan out good God we are set up for a decade of contention, no exaggeration.

 

[Davimir Tarablad]

I'm also coming around to being a 'go big for Dobson' guy. After talking to Islander fans and going over his numbers, last year was more of a combo of injuries and a pseudo-tanking team than a regression to the norm and his advanced stats were still pretty good. Having Dobson for almost a decade of his prime could cement us as contenders and balances us very, very well--and IMO if he's a + defensive, ppg Defenseman (or even closer to 60 points), 9.5 or 10 mill sounds appropriate today, let alone half a decade from now.

It's not without complications:

a. If we are getting Dobson, we have to shed cap after this year when his big deal would kick in.
b. If you get Dobson, you kinda have to move Faulk. He's Faulk but 10 years younger and better--and the aforementioned cap crunch.
c. Someone could probably beat us in regards to the return, so we would have to hope our ascending status and willingness to pay up would make us a better suitor.
d. You don't want to totally tear the forward core apart. I'd try to limit any forward going the other way to Bolduc at most. Ideally we'd do something like Bolduc + Jiricek or Bolduc + 19OA.

There's a part of me that wants to see us fit in both Dobson and Rossi without giving up Dvorsky or Kyrou, if possible. It's risky, but if they both pan out good God we are set up for a decade of contention, no exaggeration.

Even with the injuries and such, he took big strides in improving his defensive game this year. I'd say he's more than adequate defensively and has the tools to continue to improve if he keeps working on it. He won't ever hit Parayko's level of defensive game, but he's not going to have to be that matchup guy since we already have one on the roster. He's also a legit PPQB that we don't really have, and I think with our forward core, he'd produce a lot more than he did last year.

 

[Xerloris]

I'm also coming around to being a 'go big for Dobson' guy. After talking to Islander fans and going over his numbers, last year was more of a combo of injuries and a pseudo-tanking team than a regression to the norm and his advanced stats were still pretty good. Having Dobson for almost a decade of his prime could cement us as contenders and balances us very, very well--and IMO if he's a + defensive, ppg Defenseman (or even closer to 60 points), 9.5 or 10 mill sounds appropriate today, let alone half a decade from now.

It's not without complications:

a. If we are getting Dobson, we have to shed cap after this year when his big deal would kick in.
b. If you get Dobson, you kinda have to move Faulk. He's Faulk but 10 years younger and better--and the aforementioned cap crunch.
c. Someone could probably beat us in regards to the return, so we would have to hope our ascending status and willingness to pay up would make us a better suitor.
d. You don't want to totally tear the forward core apart. I'd try to limit any forward going the other way to Bolduc at most. Ideally we'd do something like Bolduc + Jiricek or Bolduc + 19OA.

There's a part of me that wants to see us fit in both Dobson and Rossi without giving up Dvorsky or Kyrou, if possible. It's risky, but if they both pan out good God we are set up for a decade of contention, no exaggeration.

What do you think bringing in someone and giving them 10m/yr would do to Holloway and Brobergs next contracts?

Here let me just give an example. Tavaras to Toronto and Mathews and Marner.

 

[bleedblue1223]

What do you think bringing in someone and giving them 10m/yr would do to Holloway and Brobergs next contracts?

Here let me just give an example. Tavaras to Toronto and Mathews and Marner.

Assuming Steen isn't Dubas, not much to worry about there. Broberg hasn't hit the height of Dobson, so I'm not concerned about that, and if he explodes and is worth a $10M, I'm happy to deal with that "issue". For me the risk with Dobson is if he's more of a 50 point guy, or will he have seasons where he's 60+ like his 70 point season.

 

[Brian39]

a. If we are getting Dobson, we have to shed cap after this year when his big deal would kick in.

To clarify, Dobson's big deal would kick in ASAP. He's a pending RFA and will need a contract for next season. If he elects to go to arbitration, he will get a 1 year award and become a UFA in the summer of 2026. Under no circumstances should we try to acquire him without an agreed upon long term contract that starts in 2025/26.

This is the main reason I'm not all-in on going after him. He holds basically all the leverage and should be using that leverage to get overpaid.

 

[Xerloris]

Assuming Steen isn't Dubas, not much to worry about there. Broberg hasn't hit the height of Dobson, so I'm not concerned about that, and if he explodes and is worth a $10M, I'm happy to deal with that "issue". For me the risk with Dobson is if he's more of a 50 point guy, or will he have seasons where he's 60+ like his 70 point season.

It's not entirely about the GM but the players deciding they won't accept less because you gave it to someone else.

 

[bleedblue1223]

It's not entirely about the GM but the players deciding they won't accept less because you gave it to someone else.

Besides Dubas' Toronto, has it ever played out like that though? And even in Toronto, all those contracts, those players proved, at least in the regular season that they were individually worth it, it just prevented them from building actual team to win in the playoffs, they were just way too top heavy. It's not like we'll suddenly have to pay guys that are realistically worth 8M, 10M because Dobson who is at least worth 9M, got 9.5-10M.

 

[Spektre]

To clarify, Dobson's big deal would kick in ASAP. He's a pending RFA and will need a contract for next season. If he elects to go to arbitration, he will get a 1 year award and become a UFA in the summer of 2026. Under no circumstances should we try to acquire him without an agreed upon long term contract that starts in 2025/26.

This is the main reason I'm not all-in on going after him. He holds basically all the leverage and should be using that leverage to get overpaid.

This is why I've suggested that a major piece would be going back to the Islanders for multiple reasons.

1. If the Blues were to do a trade for Dobson, with let's say an agreed 8 year 10-million-dollar average, he's the soon to be #1 RHD of your team.
2. There's no way to sign Dobson for that kind of money without getting rid of major salary.
3. If the Blues are trading for their #1 RHD, the ask from the Islanders is going to be very big.

Sending Kyrou alone for Dobson @ 8 years 10/mil per season, would leave $4,836,816 of cap space with 20 slots filled.

Buch Thomas Snug
Holloway Schenn Bolduc
Neighbors empty Texier
Toro Sundqvist Walker

Joseph

Fowler Parayko
Broberg Dobson
Leddy Faulk
Tucker

Binnington


You have to sign Hofer for around 3.5 million. That leaves $1,336,816 in cap space. It doesn't work. If Dobson really was Army's main target, he would have to have other deals lined up, not only to shed salary, but to bring in a #2 or #3 C. I would love to see Dobson long term on the Blues. I highly doubt it will happen.

 

[Xerloris]

This is why I've suggested that a major piece would be going back to the Islanders for multiple reasons.

1. If the Blues were to do a trade for Dobson, with let's say an agreed 8 year 10-million-dollar average, he's the soon to be #1 RHD of your team.
2. There's no way to sign Dobson for that kind of money without getting rid of major salary.
3. If the Blues are trading for their #1 RHD, the ask from the Islanders is going to be very big.

Sending Kyrou alone for Dobson @ 8 years 10/mil per season, would leave $4,836,816 of cap space with 20 slots filled.

Buch Thomas Snug
Holloway Schenn Bolduc
Neighbors empty Texier
Toro Sundqvist Walker

Joseph

Fowler Parayko
Broberg Dobson
Leddy Faulk
Tucker

Binnington


You have to sign Hofer for around 3.5 million. That leaves $1,336,816 in cap space. It doesn't work. If Dobson really was Army's main target, he would have to have other deals lined up, not only to shed salary, but to bring in a #2 or #3 C. I would love to see Dobson long term on the Blues. I highly doubt it will happen.

Is this accounting for Krugs 6.5 being on LTIR?

 

[Spektre]

Is this accounting for Krugs 6.5 being on LTIR?

Well I'm using PuckPedia and have him on the LTIR but it doesn't look like it's actually counting. I'm also manually adding the salaries and not getting the same result as them.

Thomas 8,125,000
Buch 8,000,000
Schenn 6,500,000
Neighbors 3,750,000
Joseph 2,950,000
Holloway 2,290,457
Texier 2,100,000
Toro 1,700,000
Sunny 1,500,000
Snuggy 925,000
Bolduc 863,343
Walker 775,000

37,778,800

Dobson 10,000,000
Parayko 6,500,000
Faulk 6,500,000
Broberg 4,580,917
Leddy 4,000,000
Fowler 4,000,001
Tucker 925,000

36,505,918

Binnington 6,000,000
Hofer 3,500,000

9,500,000

9,500,000 + 36,505,918 + 37,778,800 = 83,784,718 (+ 6,500,000 for Krug ) = 90,284,718

I don't get how PuckPedia is coming up with their #'s


I missed Snuggy originally but I still have 90,284,718 vs their 94,163,184 and (83,784,718) with Krug on LTIR

 

[Dr Robot]

Going to St. Louis Blues | Salary cap and contracts and scrolling down to view the caphit projections. We are 9mil below the cap next year so 15.5 worth of space counting Krug.

 

[BadgersandBlues]

Capwages is such a better site then Puckpedia.

We have 15.5M of space with Krug's LTIR and we really only need to resign Hofer and possibly Faksa, so call that 5.5, which would leave us with almost exactly 10M as long as Suter doesn't have any overages (Which I don't think he should):

Edit - We could basically add Dobson and Rossi at 10 and 7 respectively and we'd have to only trade either Faulk or Schenn for cap purposes. We could also move Leddy and either Joseph or Texier and we could basically still fit both Dobson and Rossi in, if that's the direction we want to go. If we choose to get rid of Leddy/Tex, we would probably need to move Schenn the following season anyway for Holloway/Broberg's raises (Assuming we keep Fowler). Then after that we'd be pretty set, as both Binner and Faulk come off the books.

It's kinda crazy how much space we're going to have in the near term.

 

[bleedblue1223]

PuckPedia is factoring a bonus overage amount that I don't believe have been confirmed officially by NHL, it's a number that they calculated. I've been skeptical of the number they came up with too.

 

[Brian39]

This is why I've suggested that a major piece would be going back to the Islanders for multiple reasons.

1. If the Blues were to do a trade for Dobson, with let's say an agreed 8 year 10-million-dollar average, he's the soon to be #1 RHD of your team.
2. There's no way to sign Dobson for that kind of money without getting rid of major salary.
3. If the Blues are trading for their #1 RHD, the ask from the Islanders is going to be very big.

Sending Kyrou alone for Dobson @ 8 years 10/mil per season, would leave $4,836,816 of cap space with 20 slots filled.

Buch Thomas Snug
Holloway Schenn Bolduc
Neighbors empty Texier
Toro Sundqvist Walker

Joseph

Fowler Parayko
Broberg Dobson
Leddy Faulk
Tucker

Binnington


You have to sign Hofer for around 3.5 million. That leaves $1,336,816 in cap space. It doesn't work. If Dobson really was Army's main target, he would have to have other deals lined up, not only to shed salary, but to bring in a #2 or #3 C. I would love to see Dobson long term on the Blues. I highly doubt it will happen.

We could absolutely acquire and sign Dobson for that kind of money without getting rid of major salary.

We have $5M of cap space plus we will get $6.5M in LTIR relief from Krug. That is with 14 forwards (including Dvorsky), 7 D, and 1 goalie on the roster and it assumes $2.1M in bonus overages that Puckpedia has reported we will be taking. If we traded Dobson for pure futures, signed him at $10M AAV, and sent down Kessell (our cheapest D man) to fit him on the roster, that would leave us with $2.3M in cap space with 22 guys on the roster.

That might not be enough for Hofer, but I don't think he is going to get $3.5M. If he does it is because we are buying more term than we need to. There were only 26 goalies who made $3.5M this year and there are 30 guys under contract for $3.5M for 2025/26. I'm guessing he comes in under $3M AAV on a 2 year deal.

Sending back Joseph or Leddy would create the space to give Hofer his extension and to be able to go after a center in the $2-$3M range. There are a hell of a lot of options to cut enough salary than sending a big contract to the Isles. Leddy, Joseph, and Texier are all very much expendable pieces going into next season and combine for $9M against the cap. Moving some/all of them frees up more than enough room for Dobson @ $10M plus a non-budget middle 6 C.