2024-2025 Blues Trade Proposals Thread.

[greybush314]

Guys if Buffalo is for sure going to re-sign Mcleod longterm then what about trading for Jiri Kulich? Buffalo has pretty solid center depth even if Thompson moves to wing full time. What would it take you think?

 

[Louie the Blue]

I like Schneider's skillset as a compliment to our current blue line. He's big, physical, kills penalties and is pretty good defensively. His skillset does check a lot of the boxes I'd like in an RHD and obviously the age plus multiple years of RFA team control is great.

But he has not shown to be more than a 3rd pair D man. He is currently not as good of a D man as Faulk, he's never played anything close to the role we currently use Faulk in, and I'm not sold that he's a legit top 4 D man in the short term. He was a bottom pair D man for the Rangers most of the season and didn't get into the top 4 until after they had traded Lindgren. Even then, his even strength TOI per game was 4th on the Rangers for the 21 games post-Lindgren trade and that blue line looked like a bit of a mess down the stretch. This was the first season where he played more than 16 minutes a night.

I think he'd be a good addition if the plan was to keep Faulk, run them situationally as 4/5 D men, and hope that Schneider continues to develop into a legit top 4 guy. I don't think he's a good addition to outright replace Faulk for 2025/26 and I'm not sold that he's capable of being a full time partner for Broberg. I think there is a pretty decent chance that he is never more than a fringe top 4 guy who is best suited as a #5 D man on a contender. I'm not sure that I've ever come away from watching a Rangers game with the impression that I'd really like to pry him away.

Why does it matter if he is a better defenseman today than Faulk is?

The team should be a playoff team next season and have a realistic goal of making the second round. The key younger forwards still have more room to grow (Neighbours, Bolduc, Snuggy) while having a black hole at 2C or 3C (it depends on how one views Schenn’s production being acceptable as a 2C or if the flaws at center are exacerbated by relying on Sunny to be 3C), and a defensive group that is relying on four defensemen 32+ to be key contributors, with 2 of them being UFAs after the conclusion of next season.

It’s necessary to get a younger long-term solution added to defense at some point between now and before 2026-2027. The defense as it stands now is OK for 2025-2026, but it is not something that should be relied on past next year.

 

[Reality Czech]

Why does it matter if he is a better defenseman today than Faulk is?

The team should be a playoff team next season and have a realistic goal of making the second round. The key younger forwards still have more room to grow (Neighbours, Bolduc, Snuggy) while having a black hole at 2C or 3C (it depends on how one views Schenn’s production being acceptable as a 2C or if the flaws at center are exacerbated by relying on Sunny to be 3C), and a defensive group that is relying on four defensemen 32+ to be key contributors, with 2 of them being UFAs after the conclusion of next season.

It’s necessary to get a younger long-term solution added to defense at some point between now and before 2026-2027. The defense as it stands now is OK for 2025-2026, but it is not something that should be relied on past next year.

Schenn's 50 points put him solidly in the upper half of production among 2Cs around the league. Hardly a "black hole" offensively. Put this dumb narrative to rest already.

If you want to try and upgrade 2C fine, but acting like Schenn was a terrible 2C last year is flat out false.

 

[Louie the Blue]

Schenn's 50 points put him solidly in the upper half of production among 2Cs around the league. Hardly a "black hole" offensively. Put this dumb narrative to rest already.

If you want to try and upgrade 2C fine, but acting like Schenn was a terrible 2C last year is flat out false.

I don’t think Schenn is bad as a 2C. I do question if he’s the guy who should be 2C given the production from Sunny and he’s about to be 34 in August.

 

[Reality Czech]

I don’t think Schenn is bad as a 2C. I do question if he’s the guy who should be 2C given the production from Sunny and he’s about to be 34 in August.

I'm on board with that but I think 20 teams around the league would like to upgrade their center depth

For all the talk of Bennett, his numbers were nearly the same as Schenn's. Who's Carolina's 2C? Staal or Kotkaniemi? Sure it would be nice to get another solid middle six center, but easier said than done.

 

[Louie the Blue]

I'm on board with that but I think 20 teams around the league would like to upgrade their center depth

For all the talk of Bennett, his numbers were nearly the same as Schenn's. Who's Carolina's 2C? Staal or Kotkaniemi? Sure it would be nice to get another solid middle six center, but easier said than done.

Carolina’s issue is they don’t really have more than 3 guys who’d be de facto top 6 players aside from pretty much their top line and don’t have a person who is a workhorse stud Ratanen was acquired to be that but he didn’t want to stay there.

Due to the Blues not bottoming out and being terribad, it’s really hard to get someone of that ilk without overpaying or making a trade. It worked out in 2019 because Armstrong acquired ROR and also brought the floor at center up a lot with signing Bozak.

I’d love Bennett here as I don’t think it will be easy to outright improve on Schenn’s production barring Dvorsky reaching his full potential, which would still be years down the road as Bennett is at the half way point in his contract in an ideal world.

I do think an upgrade at 2C or 3C is necessary and it has more to do with how the Blues are constructed now and for the future as well as Sundqvist not being a good fit for the role more than whatever Schenn does or doesn’t do well. He’s fine as a 2C, but he doesn’t make up for Sundqvist’s short comings.

 

[TruBlueFan1970]

I’m all for Schneider, assuming the trade price is fair, and especially at $2.2m for this upcoming season. And the question that I would be asking is not whether he is better than Faulk, but is he better than Kessel or Tucker as your 3rd pair RD. In my mind, that is a definitive yes. He’s only 23 and Faulk will be fine for another year or two while he develops, hopefully into a top 4 Dman. Also hoping they find a way to dump Leddy this summer. In the short term, this looks more solid to me though:

Fowler - Parayko
Broberg - Faulk
Leddy/Tucker - Schneider
Kessel

 

[Memento]

I mean, let's be realistic about what's in play here. If we're looking for guys who are ready to play, have been drafted more recently than 2018, and are RHD, then there are 29 options available (sorted by GP last season):

Moritz Seider (DET), Braden Schneider (NYR), Jordan Spence (LAK), Brandt Clarke (LAK), Brock Faber (MIN), Jamie Drysdale (PHI), Justin Barron (NSH), Drew Helleson (ANA), Kaedan Korczak (VGK), Louis Crevier (CHI), Victor Mancini (VAN), Jack Thompson (SJS), Matthew Kessel (STL), Simon Nemec (NJD), Artyom Levshunov (CHI), Maveric Lamoureux (UTA), Seamus Casey (NJD), Scott Morrow (CAR), David Jiricek (MIN), Sam Rinzel (CHI), Logan Mailloux (MTL), Tristan Luneau (ANA), Helge Grans (PHI), Maxwell Crozier (TBL), Ian Moore (ANA), Zayne Parekh (CGY), Hunter Brzustewicz (CGY), Ryan Ufko (NSH), Ville Ottavainen (SEA).

You can take Seider, Drysdale, Faber, Levshunov, Lamoureux, Morrow, Jiricek, Luneau, Rinzel, and Parekh off the table right away: they aren't going anywhere. So you're down to 19 options. If you take out folks from within our division, you're down to 16. Subtract Kessel, since we already have him, and you're down to 15. Of those 15, are any of them really definitively better than Schneider? I feel pretty ok having him at the top of that pile.

I'd rather go for Nemec or Clarke, if at all possible. I'd even trade Kyrou for Nemec+/Clarke+ - and I'm not one who is wanting to deal Kyrou because I'm a fan of him and have defended him for a while.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

If we have to overpay for two key pieces (2C and top-4 RHD with some offense), then do it.

 

[DatDude44]

Guys if Buffalo is for sure going to re-sign Mcleod longterm then what about trading for Jiri Kulich? Buffalo has pretty solid center depth even if Thompson moves to wing full time. What would it take you think?

I'd be shocked if they traded Kulich honestly. I think Jack Quinn would be more likely to be an odd man out/change of scenery candidate along with Byram

 

[stl76]

I mean, let's be realistic about what's in play here. If we're looking for guys who are ready to play, have been drafted more recently than 2018, and are RHD, then there are 29 options available (sorted by GP last season):

Moritz Seider (DET), Braden Schneider (NYR), Jordan Spence (LAK), Brandt Clarke (LAK), Brock Faber (MIN), Jamie Drysdale (PHI), Justin Barron (NSH), Drew Helleson (ANA), Kaedan Korczak (VGK), Louis Crevier (CHI), Victor Mancini (VAN), Jack Thompson (SJS), Matthew Kessel (STL), Simon Nemec (NJD), Artyom Levshunov (CHI), Maveric Lamoureux (UTA), Seamus Casey (NJD), Scott Morrow (CAR), David Jiricek (MIN), Sam Rinzel (CHI), Logan Mailloux (MTL), Tristan Luneau (ANA), Helge Grans (PHI), Maxwell Crozier (TBL), Ian Moore (ANA), Zayne Parekh (CGY), Hunter Brzustewicz (CGY), Ryan Ufko (NSH), Ville Ottavainen (SEA).

You can take Seider, Drysdale, Faber, Levshunov, Lamoureux, Morrow, Jiricek, Luneau, Rinzel, and Parekh off the table right away: they aren't going anywhere. So you're down to 19 options. If you take out folks from within our division, you're down to 16. Subtract Kessel, since we already have him, and you're down to 15. Of those 15, are any of them really definitively better than Schneider? I feel pretty ok having him at the top of that pile.

Drew Helleson is a very intriguing name.

 

[bleedblue1223]

If the goal is to simply upgrade the 3rd pair and PK unit for the nearish future, 2-3 years, then we shoudn't be using a 1st if the caliber of player is someone at the current level of Schneider. If our goal is to add to our core in that age group, then we need to spend more and get someone that is genuinely good enough to be considered a core player.

If some amount of our recent mid-round prospects can get Schneider, then fine, go for it, but I do think we are overrating his ability and potential. There's definitely a point where it makes sense to acquire Schneider. It's just not a 1st round pick when a 1st round pick will likely be necessary in a package if we need to trade for a true top 6 forward or top 4 defenseman.

 

[Louie the Blue]

If the goal is to simply upgrade the 3rd pair and PK unit for the nearish future, 2-3 years, then we shoudn't be using a 1st if the caliber of player is someone at the current level of Schneider. If our goal is to add to our core in that age group, then we need to spend more and get someone that is genuinely good enough to be considered a core player.

If some amount of our recent mid-round prospects can get Schneider, then fine, go for it, but I do think we are overrating his ability and potential. There's definitely a point where it makes sense to acquire Schneider. It's just not a 1st round pick when a 1st round pick will likely be necessary in a package if we need to trade for a true top 6 forward or top 4 defenseman.

Why do you think it wouldn’t cost a first round pick to acquire a 23 year old defenseman who at the very least has shown he is capable of handling third pairing responsibilities with the possibility to do more and can be under team control for awhile?

The only reason Broberg cost a second is because Edmonton badly mishandled his contract situation concurrently with Holloway.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Agree with @bleedblue1223

I'm not at all interested in excluding everyone over the age of 24 from our search. Thomas is 25 and turns 26 this summer. Kyrou just turned 27. There is no reason to exclude potential solutions just because they are the same age as Thomas and Kyrou. I think we can confidently add Broberg and Holloway to our 'core' and then we've got a nice group of young players still growing in the NHL. But that doesn't mean that every addition has to be 23/24 or younger, especially if we're talking about guys who may or may not ever be considered a 'core' piece.

And while I don't think we should solely target guys that are the age of Buchnevich, his extension indicates to me that we are willing to extend guys that are at least as old as he is. And now that we have made the playoffs, it's easier to sell our team to those players outside the org than it was to convince Buchnevich that it makes sense to sign here.

Now, when we traded for Bouwmeester, we were further along, but he was in his age 29 season, and his first full season with us was his age 30 season. He had some injuries at various points that had some dips in play relative to expectations, but he remained a 20+ minute dman his entire tenure, playing heavy minutes, and once he got healthy, he was back to being a great shutdown defender and it hurt when we lost him. I have no problem targeting something like that when the time is right.

For overall youth for the blue-line, we have guys coming, Lindstein and some amount of the 2nd-4th round guys will make it, so as long as we target players that we think have 3+ years of quality hockey in them, then I don't really care what age they are.

 

[Louie the Blue]

And while I don't think we should solely target guys that are the age of Buchnevich, his extension indicates to me that we are willing to extend guys that are at least as old as he is. And now that we have made the playoffs, it's easier to sell our team to those players outside the org than it was to convince Buchnevich that it makes sense to sign here.

Now, when we traded for Bouwmeester, we were further along, but he was in his age 29 season, and his first full season with us was his age 30 season. He had some injuries at various points that had some dips in play relative to expectations, but he remained a 20+ minute dman his entire tenure, playing heavy minutes, and once he got healthy, he was back to being a great shutdown defender and it hurt when we lost him. I have no problem targeting something like that when the time is right.

For overall youth for the blue-line, we have guys coming, Lindstein and some amount of the 2nd-4th round guys will make it, so as long as we target players that we think have 3+ years of quality hockey in them, then I don't really care what age they are.

You can’t say with certainty that some amount of 2nd-4th round guys will make it, though. This team hasn’t had any meaningful contribution from one in 4-5 years (Dunn) and the picks that have gotten some playing time are Tucker and Kessel.

The defense is fine for this year and possibly next if Fowler extends and no one has a drop off in their performance. But to act as if the pipeline will provide clear reinforcements for the future is a game of roulette considering there isn’t much there.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

You can’t say with certainty that some amount of 2nd-4th round guys will make it, though. This team hasn’t had any meaningful contribution from one in 4-5 years (Dunn) and the picks that have gotten some playing time are Tucker and Kessel.

The defense is fine for this year and possibly next if Fowler extends and no one has a drop off in their performance. But to act as if the pipeline will provide clear reinforcements for the future is a game of roulette considering there isn’t much there.

I think we can say with certainty that some amount of 2nd-4th rounders make it because they do.

 

[Spektre]

It’s speculated in The Athletic that Dobson could cost 10 million per season. If the Blues are swinging for someone that big, I have to think Kyrou is on the table. I don’t see it happening.

It’s always fun to speculate, but I will be surprised if the Blues do much of anything with the defense. I think the concentration will be getting a 2C.

 

[Louie the Blue]

I think we can say with certainty that some amount of 2nd-4th rounders make it because they do.

They haven’t had a defenseman make it from that range since Dunn and Walman (Mikkola was picked in the 5th round). That’s over 10 years ago. I believe that’s more of an anomaly than the norm.

Side note:

Also crazy that the Blues hit on Dunn, Walman, Edmundson, and Mikkola in Rounds 2-5 in a 5 year span.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Why do you think it wouldn’t cost a first round pick to acquire a 23 year old defenseman who at the very least has shown he is capable of handling third pairing responsibilities with the possibility to do more and can be under team control for awhile?

The only reason Broberg cost a second is because Edmonton badly mishandled his contract situation concurrently with Holloway.

I don't really view Broberg as a comparable, he's an obvious unique situation. I also think we kind of gloss over the risk we took on him and are now assuming everyone like him will just blossom in a new place.

Do you think Montreal regrets giving 2 1sts and stuff for Dach and Newhook? Let's look at some recentish comps that generally fit the description, and players I believe exceed Schneider and what they cost.

Justin Barron - Probably most similar in terms of value, I'm fine saying Schneider gets a slight edge, he went from Carrier, that's less than a 1st.

Bahl - This is an example of why there aren't many of these comps. Usually players like this are used in a package to get a better player and they usually aren't the player being targeted. I don't think he was valued to the level of a 1st round pick in a trade, but I know this is highly subjective.

Durzi - Much better than Schneider, cost a 2nd round pick.

Byram - Higher end prospect and proven player, was traded for what they thought was a C equivalent, but one that everyone knew was flawed, ending up busting big time, and Colorado lost a ton of value. This value was much closer to a 1st IMO, maybe a tad more.

I just don't see anyone that is a close comp to Schneider going for the equivalent value of our 19th overall pick.

 

[bleedblue1223]

You can’t say with certainty that some amount of 2nd-4th round guys will make it, though. This team hasn’t had any meaningful contribution from one in 4-5 years (Dunn) and the picks that have gotten some playing time are Tucker and Kessel.

The defense is fine for this year and possibly next if Fowler extends and no one has a drop off in their performance. But to act as if the pipeline will provide clear reinforcements for the future is a game of roulette considering there isn’t much there.

From 2014 to 2021, we only selected 4 defensemen in the 1st 4 rounds. Dunn was a hit, but he didn't fit here for what we wanted, same with Walman as a 3rd round pick, Perunovich flopped, and Loof might, but he still has time. In that same stretch, we also drafted Mikkola, Tucker, and Kessel. We didn't draft or develop many dmen in the earlier rounds because it was never an organizational need, and we had a combo of trading 1sts and having a clear preference of going with skilled forwards in the 1st.

I'd be shocked if Lindstein + 1 of (Jiricek, Fischer, Ralph, Burns) don't make the squad in the next few seasons. We'll have internal depth, the issue is more on the high-end replacements, and that's why I don't think we should waste premium assets like a 1st on a 3rd pair guy that we hope develops into a 2nd pair guy.

 

[Louie the Blue]

I don't really view Broberg as a comparable, he's an obvious unique situation. I also think we kind of gloss over the risk we took on him and are now assuming everyone like him will just blossom in a new place.

Do you think Montreal regrets giving 2 1sts and stuff for Dach and Newhook? Let's look at some recentish comps that generally fit the description, and players I believe exceed Schneider and what they cost.

Justin Barron - Probably most similar in terms of value, I'm fine saying Schneider gets a slight edge, he went from Carrier, that's less than a 1st.

Bahl - This is an example of why there aren't many of these comps. Usually players like this are used in a package to get a better player and they usually aren't the player being targeted. I don't think he was valued to the level of a 1st round pick in a trade, but I know this is highly subjective.

Durzi - Much better than Schneider, cost a 2nd round pick.

Byram - Higher end prospect and proven player, was traded for what they thought was a C equivalent, but one that everyone knew was flawed, ending up busting big time, and Colorado lost a ton of value. This value was much closer to a 1st IMO, maybe a tad more.

I just don't see anyone that is a close comp to Schneider going for the equivalent value of our 19th overall pick.

I mentioned in another post that the risk with Broberg was his AAV-it wasn’t a guarantee he’d be worth it and was an overpay based on what he had shown consistently up to that point. Thankfully, it looks like he should be a top 4 D moving forward.

Regarding the comparable players you listed, I still don’t think it’s that far fetched to see Schneider potentially costing a first. Personally, I’d prefer Byram. But I am viewing it from the angle of I don’t foresee the Rangers wanting to take away from their roster when trying to contend and having to pay a bit more to entice the Rangers instead of giving a comparable value player. I do agree a player swap would likely make the most sense and I’d be fine trading Neighbours or Bolduc if it made sense to.

 

[bleedblue1223]

And really, I think the whole discussion around Schneider here is basically just valuing what he currently is and what his potential is very differently. I don't see the point in beating a dead horse over disagreeing on a player that isn't even on the Blues. If I viewed Schneider as someone that I had a high degree of confidence that he could play 20+ minutes in a 2nd pair role in the pretty near future, then I'd trade a 1st for him, I just don't have that confidence in him. If we could get him for 2nd round pick equivalent, then sure, why not, I do that for what he currently is.

 

[Louie the Blue]

From 2014 to 2021, we only selected 4 defensemen in the 1st 4 rounds. Dunn was a hit, but he didn't fit here for what we wanted, same with Walman as a 3rd round pick, Perunovich flopped, and Loof might, but he still has time. In that same stretch, we also drafted Mikkola, Tucker, and Kessel. We didn't draft or develop many dmen in the earlier rounds because it was never an organizational need, and we had a combo of trading 1sts and having a clear preference of going with skilled forwards in the 1st.

I'd be shocked if Lindstein + 1 of (Jiricek, Fischer, Ralph, Burns) don't make the squad in the next few seasons. We'll have internal depth, the issue is more on the high-end replacements, and that's why I don't think we should waste premium assets like a 1st on a 3rd pair guy that we hope develops into a 2nd pair guy.

The bolded is what I was trying to get at. I’m not concerned about depth. The Blues can collect bottom pairing defenseman for days. They aren’t challenging to find. It’s the top 4 that I was more focusing on with regards to my comment. Parayko is probably the best example of finding a player in the middle of the draft and being a top 4 here. Dunn and Edmundson played that role at times (personally think Dunn had showed he was capable of handling top 4 minutes but Krug made him redundant) while as you mentioned Mikkola and Walman ended up progressing later on.

What I’m getting at is that it’s an anomaly the Blues even hit on that many guys as they did in the middle of the draft. Since 2000, the only other defensemen who had any resemblance of a career were Hakanpaa, Polak, and Soderberg.

 

[bleedblue1223]

The bolded is what I was trying to get at. I’m not concerned about depth. The Blues can collect bottom pairing defenseman for days. They aren’t challenging to find. It’s the top 4 that I was more focusing on with regards to my comment. Parayko is probably the best example of finding a player in the middle of the draft and being a top 4 here. Dunn and Edmundson played that role at times (personally think Dunn had showed he was capable of handling top 4 minutes but Krug made him redundant) while as you mentioned Mikkola and Walman ended up progressing later on.

What I’m getting at is that it’s an anomaly the Blues even hit on that many guys as they did in the middle of the draft. Since 2000, the only other defensemen who had any resemblance of a career were Hakanpaa, Polak, and Soderberg.

Then why are we trading a 1st for depth when it could be better used for high-end replacements?

The reason we didn't draft defensemen in all of those years was because we didn't have to. We drafted Johnson #1, who turned into Shattenkirk, we drafted Pietrangelo #4. Parayko was the gem that allowed us to move on from Shattenkirk. And that's all we really needed internally for high-end pieces to build a d-core that contended. The rest you can fill in with trades like Bouwmeester in bigger roles, Gunnarsson is mid/lesser roles, and young guys for depth like Edmundson, Dunn, etc.

For us to contend in the upcoming core, we are either going to have to get lucky on a mid round pick hitting the jackpot like a Parayko or Josi or Slavin or any other example, or by using the premium assets that will have been collected in form of picks, prospects, players, to use on a trade. That's why I don't want to use a 1st on someone that will likely just be depth.

 

[Louie the Blue]

Then why are we trading a 1st for depth when it could be better used for high-end replacements?

The reason we didn't draft defensemen in all of those years was because we didn't have to. We drafted Johnson #1, who turned into Shattenkirk, we drafted Pietrangelo #4. Parayko was the gem that allowed us to move on from Shattenkirk. And that's all we really needed internally for high-end pieces to build a d-core that contended. The rest you can fill in with trades like Bouwmeester in bigger roles, Gunnarsson is mid/lesser roles, and young guys for depth like Edmundson, Dunn, etc.

For us to contend in the upcoming core, we are either going to have to get lucky on a mid round pick hitting the jackpot like a Parayko or Josi or Slavin or any other example, or by using the premium assets that will have been collected in form of picks, prospects, players, to use on a trade. That's why I don't want to use a 1st on someone that will likely just be depth.

Because Schneider might be a better lottery ticket at being a top 4 than the actual pick itself. The Blues acquired Bouwmeester (granted he was older and much more established) for a first round pick. I don’t see why it can’t be spent on an active NHL player. Maybe Schneider isn’t the right target, but using it on someone already in the league who is ideally between the ages of 23-28 currently who has is either established or has shown potential to be a top 4 would be worth it.

Let’s say that we can pencil Broberg safely in for the long-term as a top 4. That’s great. There’s no one else currently in the organization that I think you can say that about aside from Parayko, who is 32. Lindstein might be that guy but he’s too far away to be sure.

Everyone else will either be too old, a UFA, or just doesn’t have that ceiling. I still think it’s worth acquiring an external solution for top 4 either this year or next.