2024-2025 Blues Trade Proposals Thread.

[joe galiba]

gilmour and federko are both HOF players, larkin and thomas would have a long way to go to be the best pair of centers in blues history

 

[Brian39]

Better than Federko- Gilmour duo?

That's a fair point. The peak two years of that duo was damn good. I always forget that Bernie still had a little bit of gas left in the tank when Gilmour erupted here. You're right that it wouldn't definitively be the best compared to those two. But I think they likely would be comparable with the potential to be better. If we're talking about full career resumes, then the Gilmour-Federko duo would obviously have it until proven otherwise. But Bernie's prime with the Blues was pre-Gilmour being a stud and then Gilmour's prime came after he left the Blues. They did kind of meet on the way up/down and were both near their peaks for a couple years together here, but even those couple years weren't really more dominant than what Thomas/Larkin are right now.

I know adjusted stats aren't perfect, but in the best 2 Gilmour-Federko seasons their combined adjusted points were 150 and 147. Thomas and Larkin's last two seasons have been 150 and 151. And again, Hockey Reference's 'similarity scores' aren't perfect, but one of Larkin's comps for his career so far is Federko and Thomas' best comp is Bergeron.

You're correct that I can't confidently say that Thomas/Larkin would be better than those 2 years, but I think it is a hell of a lot closer than it appears on first blush and I think that they would have a real chance to be better at the peak. They would certainly sustain it longer than Federko/Gilmore did here.

 

[ezcreepin]

That's a fair point. The peak two years of that duo was damn good. I always forget that Bernie still had a little bit of gas left in the tank when Gilmour erupted here. You're right that it wouldn't definitively be the best compared to those two. But I think they likely would be comparable with the potential to be better. If we're talking about full career resumes, then the Gilmour-Federko duo would obviously have it until proven otherwise. But Bernie's prime with the Blues was pre-Gilmour being a stud and then Gilmour's prime came after he left the Blues. They did kind of meet on the way up/down and were both near their peaks for a couple years together here, but even those couple years weren't really more dominant than what Thomas/Larkin are right now.

I know adjusted stats aren't perfect, but in the best 2 Gilmour-Federko seasons their combined adjusted points were 150 and 147. Thomas and Larkin's last two seasons have been 150 and 151. And again, Hockey Reference's 'similarity scores' aren't perfect, but one of Larkin's comps for his career so far is Federko and Thomas' best comp is Bergeron.

You're correct that I can't confidently say that Thomas/Larkin would be better than those 2 years, but I think it is a hell of a lot closer than it appears on first blush and I think that they would have a real chance to be better at the peak. They would certainly sustain it longer than Federko/Gilmore did here.

If you aren't willing to give up Dvorsky on a Larkin trade, who do you even send out? I think it would be unwise to send any one of Bolduc, Snuggerud, Dvorsky, and Stenberg, but I can be convinced to let go of Stenberg in a Larkin trade. Who else goes with him? I don't feel like we are brimming with great defensive prospects and it doesn't seem clear to me that any one of them are significantly higher on rating than the others. Surely a first would be part of this, so I guess what does your ideal trade look like?

 

[Brian39]

If you aren't willing to give up Dvorsky on a Larkin trade, who do you even send out? I think it would be unwise to send any one of Bolduc, Snuggerud, Dvorsky, and Stenberg, but I can be convinced to let go of Stenberg in a Larkin trade. Who else goes with him? I don't feel like we are brimming with great defensive prospects and it doesn't seem clear to me that any one of them are significantly higher on rating than the others. Surely a first would be part of this, so I guess what does your ideal trade look like?

My proposal included Dvorsky, so I'm very much willing to give him up in a Larkin trade.

Excluding players currently on the NHL roster, nothing we have would be off the table for Larkin. Bolduc absolutely shouldn't be off the table in a Larkin deal. Neither should Snuggy. The odds of either of them turning into the wing version of Larkin are extremely small. But let's say that we move one and he quickly turns into a 30+ goal, 70+ point winger. They still wouldn't be close to as good defensively or impact the game as much as Larkin does at center.

Like I commented earlier, ideally I'd be building a package around Schenn and Dvorsky for Larkin. I have no idea how much Detroit likes Schenn or what other assets they want, so it is tough to say what else would need to be part of the package. But I'd be willing to add this year's 1st. I'd be willing to take back a contract they don't like to give them more flexibility (their bad contracts are all short term). I'd include a depth player like Joseph, Texier, Torpo, Tucker, etc if we have a guy that they like. I'm not saying include all of those things, but those are the types of value adds I'd be discussing with them.

 

[Mike Liut]

I’d love to add more size to this team. Need to upgrade Leddy and Faulk in the next 2 years and another power forward type would help immensely. Hopefully that power forward is a 2 way #2 C. I doubt we can count on pool on being ready in 2 years to coincide with this current window. I would think Ralph, Fischer, Lindstein, Stenberg, Pekarcik are 3-4 years away, maybe 2-3 on a couple of them. But we need help much sooner. Our time is now.

 

[ezcreepin]

My proposal included Dvorsky, so I'm very much willing to give him up in a Larkin trade.

Excluding players currently on the NHL roster, nothing we have would be off the table for Larkin. Bolduc absolutely shouldn't be off the table in a Larkin deal. Neither should Snuggy. The odds of either of them turning into the wing version of Larkin are extremely small. But let's say that we move one and he quickly turns into a 30+ goal, 70+ point winger. They still wouldn't be close to as good defensively or impact the game as much as Larkin does at center.

Like I commented earlier, ideally I'd be building a package around Schenn and Dvorsky for Larkin. I have no idea how much Detroit likes Schenn or what other assets they want, so it is tough to say what else would need to be part of the package. But I'd be willing to add this year's 1st. I'd be willing to take back a contract they don't like to give them more flexibility (their bad contracts are all short term). I'd include a depth player like Joseph, Texier, Torpo, Tucker, etc if we have a guy that they like. I'm not saying include all of those things, but those are the types of value adds I'd be discussing with them.

I can't disagree that it would be fair value, and it does make sense to me. I would just hate to lose Dvorsky when he is quite close to being our new 3rd line center for dirt cheap.

I only say that it would be unwise to include Bolduc or Snuggerud is because losing home grown depth pieces (in my eyes) hurts the franchise long term. Not depth in the Peterson, Toropchenko, Alexandrov, Tucker, Kessel way, but in the Fabbri (lots of history to unpack there), Eller, Dunn, Edmundson way. I'm not naive enough to discount that some of those players were gone because of an expansion draft or unreasonable contract requests, though I do think that it can set you back a bit when you lose top 4 defensemen you drafted or a quality and stable 3rd line center. This isn't an exhaustive list and obviously just my personal opinion which could be wrong.

Acknowledging the fact that Larkin is a top 20 center in the league at very minimum, I feel like the inclusion of Dvorsky is already getting you fairly close to value. If you throw in a Bolduc or Snuggerud, I think you are already very close to equal value in my eyes, so the 1st feels like overpayment. The JT Miller trade is not quite analogous, but it seems like a similar trade. Whatever you might think about him, Seth Jones didn't fetch a ton and he is bare minimum a 2nd pair defenseman. Dylan Cozens didn't fetch an awesome return, but it's comparatively fair-ish value, maybe slightly in Ottawa's favor. Carlo fetched a good prospect, 1st, and a 4th. There would be multiple teams in on Larkin so that would increase the cost, but if it's a quick negotiation, then reluctantly I'd be ok with Dvorsky, Bolduc/Snuggerud, and a 2nd. I haven't looked at your proposal so I'm not sure how you feel about that.

Edit: Are you only looking at Schenn and Dvorsky as the center pieces? What else are you willing to attach to that?

 

[Beninnola]

The islanders may change directions.

Larkin may be a front runner for most attractive hypothetical addition

Maybe McLeod is a good second place

But I’m riding a dark horse

Thomas Horvat is nice. They’re so similar. It maybe would help us adapt to changes in the depth chart over time if our two top 6 centers played a similar style. Horvat holds his stick different than Thomas which maybe is nice too. At 30 with 5 years remaining - nice timeframe to blend Dvorsky into opportunity. Bo also wasn’t previously a dirt bag red wing.

Well find out what the islanders new direction is when we do. If Horvat is available he quickly is my number 1.

 

[AyeBah]

The islanders may change directions.

Larkin may be a front runner for most attractive hypothetical addition

Maybe McLeod is a good second place

But I’m riding a dark horse

Thomas Horvat is nice. They’re so similar. It maybe would help us adapt to changes in the depth chart over time if our two top 6 centers played a similar style. Horvat holds his stick different than Thomas which maybe is nice too. At 30 with 5 years remaining - nice timeframe to blend Dvorsky into opportunity. Bo also wasn’t previously a dirt bag red wing.

Well find out what the islanders new direction is when we do. If Horvat is available he quickly is my number 1.

Give me Barzal over Horvat

 

[The Note]

I still hope that if the Blues go out and do something aggressive it’s a trade on the back end rather than a center. I get they’re both needs, but the defense is still more of a question in the short and long term, IMO.

 

[WeWentBlues]

Trade for one and sign the other from UFA. Options to do both.

 

[PeoriaBlues309]

I don’t mind the idea of trading for Larkin, but including both our 2 and 3 C’s for next year doesn’t seem smart whatsoever.

I’d also be very reluctant in general to give up our best prospect in a deal for a guy in his age 29-34 seasons, especially one who has a grand total of 5 playoff games (when he was 19) on his resume.

I get Detroit has been bad, but we have no idea if he’d show up in big games or not.

 

[LetsGoBooze]

I don’t mind the idea of trading for Larkin, but including both our 2 and 3 C’s for next year doesn’t seem smart whatsoever.

I’d also be very reluctant in general to give up our best prospect in a deal for a guy in his age 29-34 seasons, especially one who has a grand total of 5 playoff games (when he was 19) on his resume.

I get Detroit has been bad, but we have no idea if he’d show up in big games or not.

Some have playoff fever and want to go all in these next few years, when in reality if we just stay the course we can have a 7-8+ year window and not mortgage that for the next 2-3 years. It's silly. Schenn, Fowler (if re-signed), and others are going to be aging out in the next few years. We not only need internal replacements for them we need replacements plus additions if we truly want to get to the upper echelon. Trading multiple high end young assets for a guy turning 29 soon aint it.

 

[Reality Czech]

Some have playoff fever and want to go all in these next few years, when in reality if we just stay the course we can have a 7-8+ year window and not mortgage that for the next 2-3 years. It's silly. Schenn, Fowler (if re-signed), and others are going to be aging out in the next few years. We not only need internal replacements for them we need replacements plus additions if we truly want to get to the upper echelon. Trading multiple high end young assets for a guy turning 29 soon aint it.

Reasonable take. The Blues have always been the team to wait for the opportunistic trade rather than get into a bidding war when a top guy becomes available. And I'm generally in favor of that approach.

That being said, the Armstrong Stevie Y bromance makes it more likely IF Larkin is moved, but I don't think Yzerman is ready to make that move yet. Nor should he be.

 

[Snubbed4Vezina]

The object is to win a Cup and if you can add a couple big pieces now and do it in the next 2-4 years, it doesn't matter what the futures would get you in years 5-8.

If the right player is available that can push this team into Cup contention, you make the move. Too many are concerned with constructing the perfect roster and depending on high-end development of prospects that are way more of a crapshoot than adding key vets.

Dvorsky has major question marks about his game and if you can get a high-end C by moving him, you have to consider it.

Prospects will break your heart.

 

[TruBlueFan1970]

I would be all in for Larkin or McCleod.

I would start each package with Dvorsky, Jiricek and a 1st. If they need a roster player, add in Neighbours, but I’d be asking for a pick or maybe a younger 4th line guy to balance a little. Not sure teams are going to want an aging Schenn and he’s growing on me as our 3C next season, eventually becoming our 4C.

 

[Blanick]

All I am going to say is I am really glad Army is our GM and not some of the people posting in this thread lately.

 

[Stelmacki]

I would be all in for Larkin or McCleod.

I would start each package with Dvorsky, Jiricek and a 1st. If they need a roster player, add in Neighbours, but I’d be asking for a pick or maybe a younger 4th line guy to balance a little. Not sure teams are going to want an aging Schenn and he’s growing on me as our 3C next season, eventually becoming our 4C.

 

[Bluesnatic27]

I would be all in for Larkin or McCleod.

I would start each package with Dvorsky, Jiricek and a 1st. If they need a roster player, add in Neighbours, but I’d be asking for a pick or maybe a younger 4th line guy to balance a little. Not sure teams are going to want an aging Schenn and he’s growing on me as our 3C next season, eventually becoming our 4C.

Does this imply that Larkin and McCleod are close to equal in value?… because I would want the GM’s head on a pike if they offered that for McCleod.

 

[TruBlueFan1970]

Does this imply that Larkin and McCleod are close to equal in value?… because I would want the GM’s head on a pike if they offered that for McCleod.

McCleod is 25 and broke out for 53 points this year (20g, 33a). Larkin is 28 and has had 69 and 70 points the last two seasons. So no, not exactly equal value, other than the core age of McCleod. I still give Dvo, Jiricek and a 1st for either. Might have to add more to get Larkin.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

McCleod is 25 and broke out for 53 points this year (20g, 33a). Larkin is 28 and has had 69 and 70 points the last two seasons. So no, not exactly equal value, other than the core age of McCleod. I still give Dvo, Jiricek and a 1st for either. Might have to add more to get Larkin.

I like McLeod, but I am extremely hesitant to trade for him at that high price. This might be the outlier season. He needs to have a prove it season, which means the Blues may miss out on him.

Also, someone on the Sabres has to score. A handful of guys on terrible teams always seem to pile up points, cash in with a new contract elsewhere and then return to who they normally were all along. I see McLeod as one of those guys.

 

[TruBlueFan1970]

I like McLeod, but I am extremely hesitant to trade for him at that high price. This might be the outlier season. He needs to have a prove it season, which means the Blues may miss out on him.

Also, someone on the Sabres has to score. A handful of guys on terrible teams always seem to pile up points, cash in with a new contract elsewhere and then return to who they normally were all along. I see McLeod as one of those guys.

Fair enough. I see him as another EDM guy that didn’t get a chance to excel behind their stars and vets. Holloway was expected to be a 3rd line guy and he broke out when given the chance. So has McCleod in my opinion. Put Kyrou and Holloway on his wings and he might excel. And you have to give to get. I don’t think BUF gives him up for that package to be honest.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

Fair enough. I see him as another EDM guy that didn’t get a chance to excel behind their stars and vets. Holloway was expected to be a 3rd line guy and he broke out when given the chance. So has McCleod in my opinion. Put Kyrou and Holloway on his wings and he might excel. And you have to give to get. I don’t think BUF gives him up for that package to be honest.

Good counterpoint.

 

[Snubbed4Vezina]

I would be all in for Larkin or McCleod.

I would start each package with Dvorsky, Jiricek and a 1st. If they need a roster player, add in Neighbours, but I’d be asking for a pick or maybe a younger 4th line guy to balance a little. Not sure teams are going to want an aging Schenn and he’s growing on me as our 3C next season, eventually becoming our 4C.

Absolutely not on both counts.

 

[Mike Liut]

All I am going to say is I am really glad Army is our GM and not some of the people posting in this thread lately.

You mean you don’t like my GM skills? I drafted Kostin over Thomas, I traded Binnington, Schenn and Binner for 1sts and prospects and we have a top 5 pick this year lmao.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

Blues should definitely stay away from Nelson of he makes it to Free Agency