2024-2025 Blues Trade Proposals Thread.

12+ minutes of highlights and not a single NHL point shown shown. A D+3 putting up highlights against people who will never be drafted. Definitely a guarantee of NHL success. Should I put up highlights from Perunovich's Junior year to show why it was a mistake to trade him?

Let him prove he can hang in the NHL before we gift him a role in the NHL during an important playoff push.
I think I’m reading the same people arguing that tanking for a higher draft pick is a better plan than trying to win now for the playoffs, and criticizing the idea of playing a rookie for his first taste at the end of this season because it will hurt the team.

It just comes across as being reflexively argumentative rather than genuine deeply held opinions.
 
I think I’m reading the same people arguing that tanking for a higher draft pick is a better plan than trying to win now for the playoffs, and criticizing the idea of playing a rookie for his first taste at the end of this season because it will hurt the team.

It just comes across as being reflexively argumentative rather than genuine deeply held opinions.

Except as Morty stated above, it would be better for his development to play in the AHL with Dvorsky and Co then the NHL if he is not ready.

Also, I have continuously said I have no problem with the team trying to win. I want us to lose, but I don't want them to give up. So it is not internally inconsistent to discuss what would best match the team's goals of winning when I have made it abundantly clear what I hope for.

It just so happens that the right move here aligns with both. Play Snuggy if he is ready and don't if he is not. Playing him when he's not ready is bad for his development and our future as well as the team's goal of playoffs.
 
Except as Morty stated above, it would be better for his development to play in the AHL with Dvorsky and Co then the NHL if he is not ready.

Also, I have continuously said I have no problem with the team trying to win. I want us to lose, but I don't want them to give up. So it is not internally inconsistent to discuss what would best match the team's goals of winning when I have made it abundantly clear what I hope for.

It just so happens that the right move here aligns with both. Play Snuggy if he is ready and don't if he is not. Playing him when he's not ready is bad for his development and our future as well as the team's goal of playoffs.
One thing I think everyone can agree on - Armstrong has prioritized fostering a competitive environment and TRYING to make the playoffs as the best atmosphere for young players, in contrast to teams we’ve seen who aggressively sold off and pretty much tried to lose to position for McDavid or whoever. I remember Buffalo’s GM openly swearing when they didn’t win that lottery.

I think we’d agree Armstrong has been very successful in creating that atmosphere. The team is playing meaningful games, and is competitive with playoff caliber teams. I’d like to think that experience matters for young guys. Frankly even not-as-young guys like Thomas and Kyrou as team leaders.

We can debate whether that approach is misguided, but he did manage to do it. Earlier in the year there was a point where the Blues looked poised to fade badly and be eliminated from contention for a playoff spot well before season end.
 
One thing I think everyone can agree on - Armstrong has prioritized fostering a competitive environment and TRYING to make the playoffs as the best atmosphere for young players, in contrast to teams we’ve seen who aggressively sold off and pretty much tried to lose to position for McDavid or whoever. I remember Buffalo’s GM openly swearing when they didn’t win that lottery.

I think we’d agree Armstrong has been very successful in creating that atmosphere. The team is playing meaningful games, and is competitive with playoff caliber teams. I’d like to think that experience matters for young guys. Frankly even not-as-young guys like Thomas and Kyrou as team leaders.

We can debate whether that approach is misguided, but he did manage to do it. Earlier in the year there was a point where the Blues looked poised to fade badly and be eliminated from contention for a playoff spot well before season end.

Trying to win is never misguided. It's only fans watching from a distance that might think losing and not trying your best is the correct strategy to choose. No one with actual skin in the game would prefer that route.
 
Trying to win is never misguided. It's only fans watching from a distance that might think losing and not trying your best is the correct strategy to choose. No one with actual skin in the game would prefer that route.
Yes, if you don't want to win, don't play the game! LGB
 
We have people advocating for the team not to try its best?

I was referring to the overall strategy of tanking. Some fans think it's a good "strategy" but teams only go full tank when they are literally faced with no other choice.

But I also can't wrap my head around hoping the team loses competitively as you put it. I would just stop watching games at that point because I don't enjoy watching my team lose. When the Blues score do you cheer or get angry?
 
I was referring to the overall strategy of tanking. Some fans think it's a good "strategy" but teams only go full tank when they are literally faced with no other choice.

But I also can't wrap my head around hoping the team loses competitively as you put it. I would just stop watching games at that point because I don't enjoy watching my team lose. When the Blues score do you cheer or get angry?

I look at tanking as like having surgery. It might hurt in the short term, but after you’ll be much better. The worst thing you can be is mediocre.
 
I look at tanking as like having surgery. It might hurt in the short term, but after you’ll be much better. The worst thing you can be is mediocre.
And herein lies the problem: most people cannot identify a trajectory but rather see a snapshot of where the team is and assume that that's where it will stay indefinitely.

If this team makes the first round and loses to Winnipeg in 6 games, then I'm okay with that. Tasting that defeat is an important ingredient for learning how to win. My own experience playing on hockey teams makes me question this desire to tank perpetually until said generational talent is drafted and then immediately flip this switch from being a loser to a winner. That's really tough to do in practice, and when an organization loses for extended periods of time, the remaining players have no sense of what it takes to win because all they've done is lose for years and get paid handsomely for it. That's the Buffalo Sabres in a nutshell.
 
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If we had remained as we had been prior to 4 nations I would be begging the team to lose every single game, especially with the loss of Parayko.

I’d only want the tank if it was the best path forward.

As soon as the second game after 4 nations I flipped to full bullish.

It is expensive to draft well. As Reality Czech mentions - why would lots of us even watch? If we ever do get a good pick it’s going to be a painful thing, one way or another - whether we traded somebody good for it or sucked bad enough for it.

So if we had been more than half way thru a season and also had results that showed no hope, I’d be totally down to rip the bandaid off and suffer due to the opportunity - it’s just a small period of time and the reward would have been received right after the season in the form of a good pick. Wouldn’t have been a plan to do this, just a reaction to results and circumstances.

But we didn’t get that opportunity. The team waited a bit to show itself. Good on Doug for not pulling triggers. The path we’re on is way better.
 
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On the broadcast last night they were remarking at how great the Blues have been in drafting. Just because you pick 1 thru 5 or whatever, doesn't produce a winner. There have been a number of of those picks that haven't made it to the NHL and others who ended up being just meh.
 
On the broadcast last night they were remarking at how great the Blues have been in drafting. Just because you pick 1 thru 5 or whatever, doesn't produce a winner. There have been a number of of those picks that haven't made it to the NHL and others who ended up being just meh.

It's funny because the Blues only drafted in the top 10 once since 2008, and yet, if you look at most redrafts, Kyrou is top 10 in 2016 and Thomas is top 5 in 2017. That's when our retool really started. That was followed by getting Broberg who was actually drafted 8th overall by Edmonton in 2019. It's probably too soon to do a real 2020 redraft by I'd be interested to see where Holloway and Neighbours end up as well.
 
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It's funny because the Blues only drafted in the top 10 once since 2008, and yet, if you look at most redrafts, Kyrou is top 10 in 2016 and Thomas is top 5 in 2017. That's when our retool really started. That was followed by getting Broberg who was actually drafted 8th overall by Edmonton in 2019. It's probably too soon to do a real 2020 redraft by I'd be interested to see where Holloway and Neighbours end up as well.

Just to add; Neighbours(88 points) is currently 12th in points(8th in goals) out of the 2020 Draft and Holloway is 14th(74 points).
They probably both jump spots at some point next year(Jack Quinn and Jake Sanderson aren't exactly doing a lot to hold them off).

And none of the goalies that year are worth mentioning just yet.
 
Just to add; Neighbours(88 points) is currently 12th in points(8th in goals) out of the 2020 Draft and Holloway is 14th(74 points).
They probably both jump spots at some point next year(Jack Quinn and Jake Sanderson aren't exactly doing a lot to hold them off).

And none of the goalies that year are worth mentioning just yet.
Quinn I would agree with but Sanderson absolutely has shown top of the draft class flashes. He’s the best defenseman out of that draft.
 
Quinn I would agree with but Sanderson absolutely has shown top of the draft class flashes. He’s the best defenseman out of that draft.

I'm just talking points.
Sanderson is clearly top 5 given his defensive game(I hestitate to say top 3 because Stutzle, Raymond and Jarvis are VERY good players also).
But he's not exactly Chopper on the offensive side of things.

It might take Neighbours a few years to top Sanderson in points, but I'd expect it to happen at some point simply because of their positions.
But a 60 or 70+ point season from Holloway would have him pass them both next year, and I fully expect that to happen.
 
Faber would move up quite a bit from #45 in the redraft

Pronman did a redraft for the athletic in October. I don't agree with it all but it's one "expert's" opinion. He had Faber at 8, I'd have him higher.

He had Holloway at #26 and Neighbours at #28, so our guys dropped. But again this was mid-October so only a few games into this season. That would explain Holloway but not Neighbours

 
Pronman did a redraft for the athletic in October. I don't agree with it all but it's one "expert's" opinion. He had Faber at 8, I'd have him higher.

He had Holloway at #26 and Neighbours at #28, so our guys dropped. But again this was mid-October so only a few games into this season. That would explain Holloway but not Neighbours


If they did a do-over now, you’d have to think Holloway jumps up a lot. Neighbours several spots as well.
 
Based on that re-draft, Holloway jumps quite a bit now that he's broken out, he's probably in tier 4 or 5. Probably still figuring out where he lands, but middle of the lineup tier feels right until he breaks out with more consistency. The draft is still recent enough, where there's still going to be plenty of movement, Holloway being an example of that. Guys like Quinn and Drysdale are going to start dropping pretty fast.
 
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Thought exercise:

Blackhawks call on July 1st and want to offer Connor Bedard straight up for Dylan Holloway. (never gonna happen, but still...)

Would ya?

They've got very similar numbers on the season...however with the coaching change, Holloway has gone PPG with solid a solid 2-way game and physicality. Yes, he's 3 years older and has less room for improvement than Bedard...but a bird in the hand...


I'd bet very few Blues fans would want to make this deal; and everyone outside of the Blues' fanbase would think it foolish not to trade Holloway for Bedard. Put another way, if you took Holloway and dropped him into the Hawks' roster today, his numbers almost assuredly drop. But put Bedard on Holloway's wing next to Schenn and Kyrou and he probably becomes much more dangerous than he is in Chicago.

That said...it's remarkable that the comparison can even be made. Holloway is a legit top-of-the-draft talent who was acquired for a mere 3rd round pick. Just baffling incompetence on behalf of the Oil.
 
Thought exercise:

Blackhawks call on July 1st and want to offer Connor Bedard straight up for Dylan Holloway. (never gonna happen, but still...)

Would ya?

They've got very similar numbers on the season...however with the coaching change, Holloway has gone PPG with solid a solid 2-way game and physicality. Yes, he's 3 years older and has less room for improvement than Bedard...but a bird in the hand...
Absolutely. Imagine the turnaround that Bedard would have once he steps into an actual organziation. He's just thrown to the wolves in Chicago. There is 0 help there and terrible coaching. He's like a significantly better early career Jack Hughes. He's going to struggle defensively, and he's on a team that can't shelter him. Part of being sheltered isn't just zone starts and usage, but having another line that can draw matchups. He's probably never going to be great in the faceoff circle, still not the end of the world though, but if he's the only top 6 C, that's a massive issue.
 
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