bleedblue1223
Registered User
- Jan 21, 2011
- 53,506
- 17,509
And since he was technically brought up, the Islanders are playing 7 D, and Perunovich is still being scratched, he's just not NHL quality.
2024-2025 Blues Trade Proposals Thread.
- Thread starter simon IC
- Start date
Broberg has outplayed expectations. I didn't say that our coaching played no part, ever. What I think is clear is that he turned a corner before he ever got here. It wasn't a given he would excel, but how many were expecting him to fail?
But Broberg was playing good hockey, against top teams, on his offhand side. That's impressive even if you think advanced stats showed inflated puck luck. But the rub is where Broberg WAS vs. where Nemec IS. And also, the cost of acquisition of what Broberg was (a literal no-brainer) vs. what was suggested of a proven Kyrou for a Nemec that is currently playing his way out of NJ. This is what I don't understand. This is the rest of the story, but it just kind of gets written off.
Giving defensemen at least some form of freedom to be a rover is good, otherwise it limits what they can contribute as well as makes your offense much more predictable and easy to defend. I mean, look at how Parayko has been this year with his goal scoring, but it's definitely something that needs to be used in with a balanced and opportunistic approach.
Yeah he's played 2 games in the last 4 weeks. We aren't getting that pick back.
I think it's pretty obvious that Parayko did not have the freedom previously to be a rover because we see what he can do now that he is allowed that freedom
BadgersandBlues
Registered User
- Jun 6, 2011
- 2,048
- 1,771
I think you guys are crazy if you don't believe we've done well at developing defensemen. We won the Cup in 2019 with 4 of our top 5 D men in TOI 100% homegrown in AP/Parayko/Edmundson/Dunn. The only player in the top 5 who we didn't draft and develop was Jay-Bo. Our homegrown guys were the top 4 from a xGF% too.
We have developed 2nd, 3rd, and 5th round picks into top 4 NHL D-men. That's crazy good. We have gotten reasonable contributions from 5-7th round picks recently in Kessel and Tucker.
Perhaps this is an expectations issue. We haven't taken a D in the first round (Before Lindstein/Jiricek) since 2012, which was Jordan Schmaltz. 2012! We did take four in a row with Johnson/Cole/AP/Runblad, and for the most part we did develop those guys well. Johnson has played 1k+ games and counting. Cole had strong results for us before we moved him and he's now closing in on 900 games. AP is imo a HoF. Runblad and Schmaltz flamed out - it happens.
The thing I see for the most part is that guys who went on to other teams for whatever reason - and there's usually been a good reason we gave up on them - have had better results in bigger roles. That's nice and all, but they weren't going to have those roles on this team - we generally had better players that were blocking them, as we were in our competitive Cup window for most of the 2010's. Jax and Jay-Bo were blocking Cole. In the case of Edmundson, we didn't see eye to eye on contract value and went through a brutal Arb, and Dunn we chose to give up over Tarasenko, who ended up having a career year after we kept him and then got flipped for what is now the pick that got us Lindstein.
One final note - Mikkola still blows. He's just been paired with one of the best PMD in the league the last few years in Montour who did all the heavy lifting on puck transition. Now that he's playing with Kulikov they have had way worse results as a pairing. Don't pine for Niko Mikkola fellas.
We have developed 2nd, 3rd, and 5th round picks into top 4 NHL D-men. That's crazy good. We have gotten reasonable contributions from 5-7th round picks recently in Kessel and Tucker.
Perhaps this is an expectations issue. We haven't taken a D in the first round (Before Lindstein/Jiricek) since 2012, which was Jordan Schmaltz. 2012! We did take four in a row with Johnson/Cole/AP/Runblad, and for the most part we did develop those guys well. Johnson has played 1k+ games and counting. Cole had strong results for us before we moved him and he's now closing in on 900 games. AP is imo a HoF. Runblad and Schmaltz flamed out - it happens.
The thing I see for the most part is that guys who went on to other teams for whatever reason - and there's usually been a good reason we gave up on them - have had better results in bigger roles. That's nice and all, but they weren't going to have those roles on this team - we generally had better players that were blocking them, as we were in our competitive Cup window for most of the 2010's. Jax and Jay-Bo were blocking Cole. In the case of Edmundson, we didn't see eye to eye on contract value and went through a brutal Arb, and Dunn we chose to give up over Tarasenko, who ended up having a career year after we kept him and then got flipped for what is now the pick that got us Lindstein.
One final note - Mikkola still blows. He's just been paired with one of the best PMD in the league the last few years in Montour who did all the heavy lifting on puck transition. Now that he's playing with Kulikov they have had way worse results as a pairing. Don't pine for Niko Mikkola fellas.
Brian39
Registered User
- Apr 24, 2014
- 7,898
- 15,224
Just to add on to this regarding Eddy, I just don't see a guy that improved when he left. I thought our organization undervalued him a bit and I argued way back that we played too much hardball with him in negotiations. I think we could have taken a different path with him, but none of my issues were about his development as a player. He had a couple nice seasons with us as a middle-of-the-lineup D man and was a good compliment to Petro when they were paired together.
After leaving, Eddy has had a couple really nice seasons as the #4 D man when he plays with a partner who excels at moving/skating the puck up ice. He's also had multiple seasons where he hasn't been very good. He still doesn't produce much offense, he still has trouble staying in the lineup, he still gives the puck away too much, he's still physical, he still blocks shots, and his possession numbers haven't improved from his time here. I see the same guy he was when he was here.
I don't see a leap in development or a big improvement when he left. I just see other teams valuing the same guy we had more than we did. And while I disagree with our valuation of him, I don't see anything to suggest that we didn't effectively develop him. We developed him into a a guy who can be an effective (albeit flawed) #4 defensive D man in the right situation. That's a good outcome for a 2nd round pick and he did that for us on the way to a Cup in his mid-20s. And then he's continued to be that (flaws included) through his late 20s and early 30s. I very much view Eddy as a successfully developed D man.
Completely disagree on Mikkola though. He genuinely took a big step forward in Florida and has had a nice season this year. He's 4th in TOI and ATOI for a contender and has been effective. He has already reached career-bests in goals and assists. He is 6 shots away from a career best in shots, is 3rd on the team (and 2nd among D) in +/-, is 8th on the team (and 2nd among D) in expected +/-, and is putting up the best possession numbers of his career. He's still not a perfect D man and like Eddy will never be more than a #4 who supports a good partner. But he has been way more effective in that role for Florida than he was here and this is the 2nd year where that is true. We can debate how much is him and how much is Florida's system/team. But I very much disagree that he's been bad this year.
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