2024-2025 Blues Trade Proposals Thread.

[BadgersandBlues]

I think it's smarter to wait out the market on Schenn unless someone gives us a Godfather offer (Knies, Nemec, etc) 1 for 1 and with no retention. Like Binner and Faulk, I don't think his value will change much between now and July 1st, and the number of teams that could get in on the action due to cap/NTC terms changing is higher.

I think it's smart to engage in talks now to lay the groundwork, and remind everyone that the price is likely to go UP and not DOWN over the off-season with the addition of more teams.

 

[TruBlueFan1970]

Quick question. Can Krug be traded while on LTIR if he were to approve? Can't remeber the rules. Pretty sure he still has a full NTC until July, which then goes to a M-NTC? Not saying a team would or should take him on, but curious if someone would take him, just to gain some LTIR space for the deadline. I seem to remember the Shea Weber contract getting traded to VGK one season and then they dumped him in the next year to AZ so they could get to the cap floor.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

Quick question. Can Krug be traded while on LTIR if he were to approve? Can't remeber the rules. Pretty sure he still has a full NTC until July, which then goes to a M-NTC? Not saying a team would or should take him on, but curious if someone would take him, just to gain some LTIR space for the deadline. I seem to remember the Shea Weber contract getting traded to VGK one season and then they dumped him in the next year to AZ so they could get to the cap floor.

Adding injured player doesn't give you cap space.

 

[Frenzy31]

The point is that the outcome of that one game colors the picture to a substantial degree. Following that game we could be anywhere from 3 points out of a playoff spot or sitting in a playoff spot. The question isn't 'what happened in that game' but rather 'how realistic are playoffs' following that game. Moneypuck gives us a 35% chance to make the playoffs with a win against LA and a 21% chance with a regulation loss. The result of the Flames game Tuesday swings our odds another 4 percentage points. The result of Vancouver's game has a similar impact.

By the end of the night Wednesday, we could be staring at a 15% chance of making the playoffs or a 40% chance of making the playoffs (or somewhere in between). Those are drastically different situations to find yourself in and merit different decisions. Are you suggesting that executive decision making shouldn't factor in present day realities?

Army has traded players while we were in the playoff hunt (Staz, Shatty). The only difference is we have had 2 weeks of practice for Monty and you can tell the difference in the team. They haven't had much practice time since the coaching change. I think it is more return vs. the chance of making the playoffs.

If the highest offer is a B prospect and a 2nd, I wouldn't make a move and I think - regardless of chances of making playoffs, he will keep Schenn. If it is a high end prospect (RHD) ideally or a young player with real upside, but unproven (Holloway). One that we all agree is a solid return, then I think he will make the move.

I don't think it will be a futures deal - (2 1st rounders). I think it will be with the Core in mind and likely a Dman of some kind.

Sure you take that deal, but I don't see any chance at all New Jersey makes that offer.

Mercer has more goals than Schenn this year in a noticeably more defensive role. Swapping him for Schenn still leaves them with a hole in their top 6. Mercer is a noticeably more valuable piece than Schenn looking 2+ years into the future and is cheaper over the next 2 seasons after this one. Even if New Jersey were willing to sacrifice that future value to upgrade him to Schenn right now, they certainly wouldn't value that upgrade as a high end prospect that they picked #2 overall.

Even if the Devils are desperate, I'd wager the player coming back to make the money work would be Haula. And even if it were Haula, I don't think that Nemec would be on the table. If they are truly desperate for a center with a hurt Hughes, I'd wager that they pay rental price for Nelson over moving Nemec.

Do you still think Nemec has the same value as last year? I don't. I think the shine is coming off a bit and with Casey emerging, maybe he becomes an option. I agree on Mercer, they will want to add to the roster not take away.

 

[Brian39]

Quick question. Can Krug be traded while on LTIR if he were to approve?

Yes.

Adding injured player doesn't give you cap space.

There are very limited scenarios where it can.

Let's say you have a guy making $5M going on LTIRetirement and you are currently $1.5M under the cap. Putting him onto LTIR would give you $3.5M in LTIR relief (allowing you to exceed the cap by $3.5M including his contract). Trading him for a guy on LTIRetirement who makes $6.5M would give you more cap space. That $6.5M would put you right at the cap, so when you put him onto LTIR you would get $6.5M in cap relief (allowing you to exceed the cap by $6.5M including his contract. Getting yourself closer to the cap at the moment of putting a player on LTIR maximizes your usable cap space. so there are times where you can get your team 'more' cap space by acquiring an injured player that lets you more efficiently utilize LTIR.

 

[Blueswin]

EF said that NJ has been interested in him. JHughes got hurt last night. Does that push them to up their offer? To me, If you could figure out way to get Mercer and Nemec, that would be kind of deal you have to pull trigger on regardless of standings.

I don't see them trading someone like Mercer of their roster it would weaken them.

 

[Brian39]

Army has traded players while we were in the playoff hunt (Staz, Shatty). The only difference is we have had 2 weeks of practice for Monty and you can tell the difference in the team. They haven't had much practice time since the coaching change. I think it is more return vs. the chance of making the playoffs.

If the highest offer is a B prospect and a 2nd, I wouldn't make a move and I think - regardless of chances of making playoffs, he will keep Schenn. If it is a high end prospect (RHD) ideally or a young player with real upside, but unproven (Holloway). One that we all agree is a solid return, then I think he will make the move.

I don't think it will be a futures deal - (2 1st rounders). I think it will be with the Core in mind and likely a Dman of some kind.

There is also the massive difference that both those players were pending UFAs that would have left for nothing whereas all of our higher value assets now will still be under team control for 2+ years beyond July 1st.

Do you still think Nemec has the same value as last year? I don't. I think the shine is coming off a bit and with Casey emerging, maybe he becomes an option. I agree on Mercer, they will want to add to the roster not take away.

Nope.

But last year I think his value was "essentially untouchable." Going from 'untouchable' to a trade option doesn't mean that he is viewed just like any run of the mill B level prospect. I think that he is still very much viewed as a top-tier prospect even if he has fallen out of the 'elite' range. I'd wager that most people around the league would have him either above or on the same tier as whoever you consider to be the Blues best prospect.

I think he could very well be a trade option for New Jersey, but I don't think that would be in a trade for a guy like Schenn, especially if they are giving up an NHL roster player too.

 

[LetsGoBooze]

I think playoff possibility makes it less likely we trade our rentals, as none of them are likely to return enough that it makes sense to deal them if we have realistic shot at playoffs. If we get rumored ask for Schenn, I think you need to deal him regardless of what it does to this year's playoff chances.

Agreed, take the rumored ask if its offered, and if we free fall a bit, could be a blessing as well. A haul, plus a top 12 pick would continue to set us up nicely for the future.

 

[Brian39]

I think the Seth Jones return is probably relevant when discussing our guys with term. Florida just got him at $7M AAV through 2029/30 (his age 35 season) for a 2026 1st and Spencer Knight. Knight was once a highly regarded goalie prospect, but he make $4.5M (this year and next) and has had his share of struggles. I think Chicago is taking a good gamble targeting a guy like him. It opened up money for Florida, but I think his value was certainly higher than just a cap dump. But he certainly isn't currently valued like a high end prospect.

I don't think there are many teams who would view a 33 year old Schenn at $6.5M x 3.5 years as highly as a 30 year old Seth Jones at $7M x 5.5 years. I'm not expecting the Blues to get an offer significantly better than what the Hawks just got for Jones unless we also engage in some pretty hefty retention (which I doubt we want to do).

Last year Vegas gave up a 2025 1st and Edstrom for a 30 year old Hertl at $6.75M x 6.5 years against their cap. They also got two 3rds in the deal. I doubt that 33 year old Schenn at $6.5M x 3.5 years is considered more valuable right now.

 

[BleedBlue14]

I just don't really see us moving on from Schenn anymore this year. We have two really good lines that are producing right now. Our odds aren't great to make the playoffs, but I'm not sure you could just plug anyone in between Holloway and Kyrou and expect the same results.

I think the only way I'd consider something would be if we brought back like a Nemec and a Haula from NJD. I think Haula's speed could play alright with those two.

 

[StlBigFly]

I think New Jersey would be absolutely desperate for scoring even before a Hughes injury, so any deal we’d want from them that took away from their scoring is probably something they’d be forced to pass on now.

 

[ArenaRat]

I think the Seth Jones return is probably relevant when discussing our guys with term. Florida just got him at $7M AAV through 2029/30 (his age 35 season) for a 2026 1st and Spencer Knight. Knight was once a highly regarded goalie prospect, but he make $4.5M (this year and next) and has had his share of struggles. I think Chicago is taking a good gamble targeting a guy like him. It opened up money for Florida, but I think his value was certainly higher than just a cap dump. But he certainly isn't currently valued like a high end prospect.

I don't think there are many teams who would view a 33 year old Schenn at $6.5M x 3.5 years as highly as a 30 year old Seth Jones at $7M x 5.5 years. I'm not expecting the Blues to get an offer significantly better than what the Hawks just got for Jones unless we also engage in some pretty hefty retention (which I doubt we want to do).

Last year Vegas gave up a 2025 1st and Edstrom for a 30 year old Hertl at $6.75M x 6.5 years against their cap. They also got two 3rds in the deal. I doubt that 33 year old Schenn at $6.5M x 3.5 years is considered more valuable right now.

this year teams have visibility into the cap's growth, whereas last year they didn't. do you see that alone as a factor that could drive a team to throw more at Schenn (or anyone) than they would have a year ago?

 

[TheDizee]

if they decide to not trade many people, they still need to be involved and help out teams cap situations and acquire draft picks for doing so. we have cap space, so use it.

 

[Blueswin]

I just don't really see us moving on from Schenn anymore this year. We have two really good lines that are producing right now. Our odds aren't great to make the playoffs, but I'm not sure you could just plug anyone in between Holloway and Kyrou and expect the same results.

I think the only way I'd consider something would be if we brought back like a Nemec and a Haula from NJD. I think Haula's speed could play alright with those two.

Also Haula has a no -trade clause.

 

[BleedBlue14]

Also Haula has a no -trade clause.

That could be a bit problematic lol

 

[Brian39]

this year teams have visibility into the cap's growth, whereas last year they didn't. do you see that alone as a factor that could drive a team to throw more at Schenn (or anyone) than they would have a year ago?

I don't.

All the GMs had access to revenue totals last year. Those numbers demanded one of two outcomes. We were always going to have a $100M+ cap by 2026/27 or we were going to have a lockout. Barring the league looking out the players to get significantly more than 50% of HRR, the only question about the cap was whether it was going to increase by $20M+ in one offseason or if that increase was going to be smoothed over several seasons. The league and PA chose to smooth it out, but the massive cap increase was inevitable.

I don't think any teams were surprised by this. Every team has a cap guy who would have made it crystal clear by last year that a huge jump was coming.

 

[Frenzy31]

There is also the massive difference that both those players were pending UFAs that would have left for nothing whereas all of our higher value assets now will still be under team control for 2+ years beyond July 1st.


Nope.

But last year I think his value was "essentially untouchable." Going from 'untouchable' to a trade option doesn't mean that he is viewed just like any run of the mill B level prospect. I think that he is still very much viewed as a top-tier prospect even if he has fallen out of the 'elite' range. I'd wager that most people around the league would have him either above or on the same tier as whoever you consider to be the Blues best prospect.

I think he could very well be a trade option for New Jersey, but I don't think that would be in a trade for a guy like Schenn, especially if they are giving up an NHL roster player too.

1st bolded. I agree. Which is why I think he might have more value to the teams acquiring him (more below).

2nd bolded. I don't think that either, but I am not sure he is a blue chipper any more. I think he would be more valued as a Mid to late first rounder. As for a roster player, that might actually help the Devils with cap, but may not the same value to the Blues (so more of a toss in). And I am not talking Mercer here.

I think something that should be more talked about is with the cap going up and lack of 2025 center UFAs: Tavares, Nelson, Duchene, and Donato? Schenn is a great add for most teams. And you get him for 3 playoff runs. Cap is not a factor in this instance.

If we trade Schenn who replaces him next year? Considering we lack them.

 

[TruBlueFan1970]

if they decide to not trade many people, they still need to be involved and help out teams cap situations and acquire draft picks for doing so. we have cap space, so use it.

Agree. And with the Jones trade, the Hawks just used the last of their 3 retention slots. One less bottom feeder to compete with for being a 3rd party to a trade.

 

[MortiestOfMortys]

I bet we could trade Nick Leddy to either DAL, VAN, or TBL. All of them have had a carousel of dmen in/out of the lineup all season. I bet one of them would bite on the Leddy brand name and playoff experience.

 

[BleedBlue14]

1st bolded. I agree. Which is why I think he might have more value to the teams acquiring him (more below).

2nd bolded. I don't think that either, but I am not sure he is a blue chipper any more. I think he would be more valued as a Mid to late first rounder. As for a roster player, that might actually help the Devils with cap, but may not the same value to the Blues (so more of a toss in). And I am not talking Mercer here.

I think something that should be more talked about is with the cap going up and lack of 2025 center UFAs: Tavares, Nelson, Duchene, and Donato? Schenn is a great add for most teams. And you get him for 3 playoff runs. Cap is not a factor in this instance.

If we trade Schenn who replaces him next year? Considering we lack them.

That is my biggest concern with the whole situation on moving Schenn. It's pretty clear that 81/10/25 is working well. What would justify us jeopardizing that for next season in a move? It's not as simple as accrue assets -> Find someone to play 2nd line center next year until Dvorsky is ready.

Schenn isn't a burner by any means but he's a good enough skater and skilled enough to play at the pace needed for those two. Duchene would be a great replacement, but why would he sign here? Also why wouldn't Dallas re-sign him, he's been great there. Highly doubt Tavares leafs Toronto, and if he does there's enough need league wide for good top 6 centers I'm not sure why he'd sign here. Same could probably be said for Nelson. I don't doubt we could lure Donato with money, but I'm not sold that his production will keep up.

It's creating a lot of risk, i'd imaigne that's why the asking price is so high and rightly so. Unless a really good RHD prospect is on the table, I'm not sure what we should be looking for to help supplement in the future. Hard to imagine every prospect pans out, but our past history with prospects transitioning to the NHL is pretty good and our current pool has seen alot of continual growth throughout the last couple of years.

I bet we could trade Nick Leddy to either DAL, VAN, or TBL. All of them have had a carousel of dmen in/out of the lineup all season. I bet one of them would bite on the Leddy brand name and playoff experience.

I would hope we're open to that and I would also hope we'd be open to retaining to maximize a return there. With us being on the fringe, it seems unnecessary to have a guy like Leddy on our 3rd pairing although I will say it does stabilize the defense a lot more. Just not a luxury we really need right now.