2024-2025 Blues Multi-Purpose Thread. | Page 152 | HFBoards - NHL Message Board and Forum for National Hockey League

2024-2025 Blues Multi-Purpose Thread.

Honestly, I wouldn’t be totally opposed to kicking the tires on Toews. Seeing if he can still play. It’d have to be a 1 year 35+ contract that’s incentive based though. Something like $1M salary and then he can earn more based on games played or points scored.

But his hometown team of Winnipeg could offer that same type of 35+ contract to be their 3C…question is, will they? I’ll be interested to see what kind of interest there will be in him this summer.

Just read this article (link)on it and this was the part that stood out to me in it:
The first week, he did some skills work. Last week, he went hard on conditioning skates. He’s most looking forward to skating with some old friends and teammates in the summer, once they’re done with their seasons. That’s when he’ll know for sure how feasible this whole comeback thing really is.
So my guess is we hear more on Toews later this summer once he’s skated with some current NHLers and has a better idea if he feels he can actually still play in this league or not.
 
Honestly, I wouldn’t be totally opposed to kicking the tires on Toews. Seeing if he can still play. It’d have to be a 1 year 35+ contract that’s incentive based though. Something like $1M salary and then he can earn more based on games played or points scored.

But his hometown team of Winnipeg could offer that same type of 35+ contract to be their 3C…question is, will they? I’ll be interested to see what kind of interest there will be in him this summer.

Just read this article (link)on it and this was the part that stood out to me in it:

So my guess is we hear more on Toews later this summer once he’s skated with some current NHLers and has a better idea if he feels he can actually still play in this league or not.
Same. I don't think he'd come here, I think he'd want a place with some amount of familiar faces, or a legit Cup chance. Would definitely be weird though.
 
I've been critical of the prospect of signing Bennett, but it has less to do with his cheap shots and more to do with the term he'll likely demand and how he will age. To be clear, I don't hate him. He's a hell of a hockey player. My issue with his play is that invites the same head hunting and shots at our top guys. I mentioned all of this in another post I made regarding Bennett the other day, all of which points were conveniently glossed over by another poster who preferred to call the apprehension in signing him "Moral Grandstanding" My opinion on the head hunting aspect of the game has changed, as there is no longer an enforcer roll to maintain checks and balances. I'd prefer to not lose Thomas, Broberg, Kyrou, Holloway, Bolduc or Snuggy to a concussion for an undisclosed amount of time in the middle of the season due to some half assed retribution from a game the week before. But what do I know?? I'm just a virtue signaler..
Once again you missed the entire point.

I never called not wanting to sign Bennett “moral grandstanding.” That comment was made directly to your statement about the Blues not employing dirty players throughout their history. I called you out and proved you wrong about it, you have still yet to acknowledge or refute that, and now this is the result. You’re still talking about it days later. Lol.
 
Posted on the main boards but relevant discussion for here.

I was trying to extrapolate Bennett's next contract. Using Brayden Schenn as a comp for Bennett (physical, 50-60 point, 2-way center), Schenn signed an 8 year extension at 28 at 6.5M (7.98% of the cap). Adjusting Bennett to 95.5M cap and accounting for 7 years, somewhere between 7.6M and 8.7M for 7 years is probably the floor of what he will get.

Stephenson and Lindholm signed 7-year deals last July for 7.1% and 8.8% of cap, respectively.

In a bidding war, I could easily see Bennett eclipse 9M-10M on AAV. GMs are pretty shrewd around the league but the cap is expected to continue to increase in the short-term.

If all it costs the Blue is cap space, adding Bennett for 7 years at ~8M is something I would consider if I were Army especially if Holloway and Broberg are extended prior to 7/1 and we know what the cap allocations look like 2-3 years out.
In the 95.5M+ cap era? It's just a numbers game. He's likely to to get a contract that approaches/exceeds 8% of the cap based on comps. That's the going rate for 50-60 point centers. And it works out to an AAV close to 8M per year with a bidding war driving the price a bit higher than the norm.

View attachment 1039616
All your comps were pretty noticeably more productive '50-60 point' centers than Bennet. This was the first year Bennet hit 50+ points and he had 51. His career high pace was 56 points. He's paced for 50+ points 3 times in his career (3 of the last 4 years).

Schenn had 4 straight 50+ point seasons leading up to his contract. His best season was 70 points and his worst season in that stretch was a 56 point pace.

Lindholm had 82, 78, and 64 point seasons on his resume plus a 68 point pace COVID season on his resume.

Stephenson had 64 and 65 point seasons on his resume in addition to his 51 point season immediately before inking his deal.

We're talking about 3 guys who have all hit the 65 point mark vs Bennet who's career-best is 51. There is a pretty clear gap in upside there and I think it is a pretty big stretch to lump them into the same 50-60 point range. Given that gap, I don't think you can lump Bennet into that group to then call the 7-8% of the cap AAV his floor.

I think he's got a chance at an $8M AAV based on his other strengths, but I don't think it is his floor and I think there is a good chance that he needs to give up a year or two of term to get that AAV. Because the strengths in his game that make up some production difference are also things that highly suggest that he's not going to be able to maintain that level of play in years 4+.

I have zero interest in the Blues giving him $8M x 7 years. Beyond simply being an overpay, that sets up Holloway to absolutely take us to the cleaners. That would allow Holloway to go into next season knowing that he would (likely) be on a line with our new $8M AAV center with the chance to outproduce Bennet by 15+ points while bringing as much physicality, more speed, and better possession numbers.
 
I don’t think it’s a foregone conclusion that Bennett is going anywhere. Florida is looking like a juggernaut on its way to being a dynasty. I could see Zito working some magic to keep the band together. By my math they have around $20 million to work with next season to bring back, Bennett, Marchand and Ekblad plus a couple of support players.
 
I don’t see a big problem with the idea of signing Bennett. I also don’t see the comparison to Backes, at least not apples to apples. Backes was what, 32 when he signed with Boston? Bennett isn’t a #1c but he’s a legitimate #2, especially in the playoffs.

69 points in 98 playoff games. 42 points in the last 53 playoff games.

He’s a gamer with an edge.

Buchnevich Thomas Snuggerud
Holloway Bennett Kyrou
Neighbors Schenn Bolduc
Toro Sundqvist Walker

With Dvorsky coming, I don’t mind it.
 
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I don’t think it’s a foregone conclusion that Bennett is going anywhere. Florida is looking like a juggernaut on its way to being a dynasty. I could see Zito working some magic to keep the band together. By my math they have around $20 million to work with next season to bring back, Bennett, Marchand and Ekblad plus a couple of support players.

100% I think it's 50/50 at best that he leaves Florida. It all depends on how much he prioritizes maxing out his salary vs. enjoying living and playing for the Panthers. And if he decides to leave I seriously doubt he chooses St. Louis over all the other teams that are going to make an offer.
 
Florida has the space to bring their guys back, I think they do that and they put together a sort of a dynasty. The only way one of them leaves IMO is if they chase crazy money or glory by trying to bring a Cup to a team like Toronto.
 
Could the Blues recreate the Holloway-Schenn-Kyrou line as a third line?

Neighbours-Thomas-Buchnevic
Holloway-New C-Kyrou
Bolduc-Schenn-Snuggerud
WTF

That Schenn line would be a complete mismatch for teams to deal with. Imagine the way Holloway-Schenn-Kyrou looked but having that with two line. The Thomas line wouldn't have very good speed but they would be a possession juggernaut
 
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Could the Blues recreate the Holloway-Schenn-Kyrou line as a third line?

Neighbours-Thomas-Buchnevic
Holloway-New C-Kyrou
Bolduc-Schenn-Snuggerud
WTF

That Schenn line would be a complete mismatch for teams to deal with. Imagine the way Holloway-Schenn-Kyrou looked but having that with two line. The Thomas line wouldn't have very good speed but they would be a possession juggernaut
I really like our potential top 9 if we can bring in a 2C and push Schenn down to the 3C. But that 3rd line you have would be a completely different looking line than the Holloway/Schenn/Kyrou line. They would be playing vastly different styles, vastly different roles, and as much as I like what I've seen of Bolduc/Snuggy, they aren't close to the level of players that Holloway/Kyrou are unless they take a few leaps forward in development. I wouldn't consider it a 'recreation' of the Holloway-Schenn-Kyrou line.

I personally don't like that 3rd line as constructed. You have 3 shoot-first players on the line and Schenn isn't good enough defensively to pick up the slack in Snuggy's defensive game. If you're going to have two trigger men in Bolduc/Snuggy on the same line, I think you need a plus-defensive playmaking center between them. I don't think Schenn is creative enough with the puck to maximize having both those guys as his wingers but I also don't look at that line as good enough defensively to handle tough defensive assignments. There is plenty of talent on that line to create mismatches, but I think the addition of a 2C gives us enough talent to create that 3rd line talent mismatch with almost any combination of the 9 forwards.

I think I'd be looking to swap one (or both) of Neighbours/Buch with one (or both) of Bolduc/Snuggy. The construction you list would probably force the Thomas line into super-defensive usage and I want Thomas to have more offensive leeway than he'd get with that construction.

If we bring in a 2C upgrade, I'd probably enter camp looking for something like this to start the year:

Neighbours-Thomas-Snuggy
Holloway-2C-Kyrou
Bolduc-Schenn-Buch

Buch isn't going to get 3rd line minutes. I'd still expect him in the top 5 among our forwards for even strength minutes every night. Not sure if you accomplish that by having Thomas replace Schenn on that "3rd" line for defensive usage or have Buch replace Snuggy on the "1st" line for defensive usage. But I'd expect a lot of mixing and matching around Thomas throughout the year as game situations dictate. Now matter how exactly they get there, I think it is a safe bet that Monty wants Thomas playing several more minutes than all of Snuggy, Bolduc, and Neighbours.

One reason I really want the Blues to get a 2C that can bump Schenn down to 3C is to help our young wings develop. I don't want our 3rd line to be a shutdown line out of necessity. I don't want to have 1 or two of our young wingers having to carry their center. If we can get a center that can legitimately bump Schenn to 3C, I think we will have the ability to really, really put all of Neighbours, Snuggy, and Bolduc in positions to succeed and grow instead of having a situation like this year where one of them always feels like the odd man out. I'm thrilled about how Bolduc grew his game this year. I htink his path into being an effective top 6 player for a contender required him to really round his game out. But I don't think he needs another year of that role because I think he has added those tools. While Snuggy needs to round his game out, I think he's best suited playing with skill and focusing on a breakout offensive season. And I think Neighbours will always need at least one person on his line who excels at playing with the puck on their tape. From a pure development standpoint, I don't want to see any of them getting a similar role to what Bolduc got this year. I think that long-term, this young wing group is best developed if we have 3 centers with enough offensive skill to roll out 3 lines that are threats to score.
 
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Yeah. Only way any one would pick STL over Florida would be if they truly want to be in STL (think Stastny) or are substantially overpaid

My winter home is in Naples. It’s beautiful down there. I’ve never heard anybody say my Winter home is in STL lol. But i really do love STL.
 
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I’ve moved a ton. About 30 times - lots of projects that take a year or two. Now, and at other times previously I travel for work so I’ve seen a ton. Moved a dozen times before I graduated high school. (Sluh)

Stl is the clear best place to live, especially if you travel for work, and is my choice.

Stl has the best old money; if you do right they will treat you like family.

Great food. Great people. Great opportunity for the young. Great hockey team. Good support for businesses without giving away the farm. If you work hard and facilitate healthy finances you can secure a safe and happy life for yourself and family.

If you’re fortunate to or engaged/aspire to higher incomes - you live like a king in stl for what a peasant lives on in San Fran or parts of Seattle, Miami, Etc. Your kids get excellent education, decades of great families interwoven.

Travel is easier because no trip is the long one. We’re in the middle. You don’t realize how good that is until you gotta fly long ones.

I think it has attracted hockey people over time because it is that good. It just isn’t obvious that it is. Lots of judging books by covers, or mis-valuing priorities, or value that lies hidden until you’ve experienced it.
 
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I really like our potential top 9 if we can bring in a 2C and push Schenn down to the 3C. But that 3rd line you have would be a completely different looking line than the Holloway/Schenn/Kyrou line. They would be playing vastly different styles, vastly different roles, and as much as I like what I've seen of Bolduc/Snuggy, they aren't close to the level of players that Holloway/Kyrou are unless they take a few leaps forward in development. I wouldn't consider it a 'recreation' of the Holloway-Schenn-Kyrou line.

I personally don't like that 3rd line as constructed. You have 3 shoot-first players on the line and Schenn isn't good enough defensively to pick up the slack in Snuggy's defensive game. If you're going to have two trigger men in Bolduc/Snuggy on the same line, I think you need a plus-defensive playmaking center between them. I don't think Schenn is creative enough with the puck to maximize having both those guys as his wingers but I also don't look at that line as good enough defensively to handle tough defensive assignments. There is plenty of talent on that line to create mismatches, but I think the addition of a 2C gives us enough talent to create that 3rd line talent mismatch with almost any combination of the 9 forwards.

I think I'd be looking to swap one (or both) of Neighbours/Buch with one (or both) of Bolduc/Snuggy. The construction you list would probably force the Thomas line into super-defensive usage and I want Thomas to have more offensive leeway than he'd get with that construction.

If we bring in a 2C upgrade, I'd probably enter camp looking for something like this to start the year:

Neighbours-Thomas-Snuggy
Holloway-2C-Kyrou
Bolduc-Schenn-Buch

Buch isn't going to get 3rd line minutes. I'd still expect him in the top 5 among our forwards for even strength minutes every night. Not sure if you accomplish that by having Thomas replace Schenn on that "3rd" line for defensive usage or have Buch replace Snuggy on the "1st" line for defensive usage. But I'd expect a lot of mixing and matching around Thomas throughout the year as game situations dictate. Now matter how exactly they get there, I think it is a safe bet that Monty wants Thomas playing several more minutes than all of Snuggy, Bolduc, and Neighbours.

One reason I really want the Blues to get a 2C that can bump Schenn down to 3C is to help our young wings develop. I don't want our 3rd line to be a shutdown line out of necessity. I don't want to have 1 or two of our young wingers having to carry their center. If we can get a center that can legitimately bump Schenn to 3C, I think we will have the ability to really, really put all of Neighbours, Snuggy, and Bolduc in positions to succeed and grow instead of having a situation like this year where one of them always feels like the odd man out. I'm thrilled about how Bolduc grew his game this year. I htink his path into being an effective top 6 player for a contender required him to really round his game out. But I don't think he needs another year of that role because I think he has added those tools. While Snuggy needs to round his game out, I think he's best suited playing with skill and focusing on a breakout offensive season. And I think Neighbours will always need at least one person on his line who excels at playing with the puck on their tape. From a pure development standpoint, I don't want to see any of them getting a similar role to what Bolduc got this year. I think that long-term, this young wing group is best developed if we have 3 centers with enough offensive skill to roll out 3 lines that are threats to score.
Moving Buchnevich to that third line eliminates the chemistry he has with Thomas, and Neighbours can be an adequate stop-gap for injuries in the top 6, but I wouldn't plug him in as a long-term fixture there unless he finds another gear this off season.
 
Moving Buchnevich to that third line eliminates the chemistry he has with Thomas, and Neighbours can be an adequate stop-gap for injuries in the top 6, but I wouldn't plug him in as a long-term fixture there unless he finds another gear this off season.
I'm one of the people that thinks the Thomas/Buch chemistry is overstated. I think they play well together because they are both really good/smart hockey players with vision that can play well with almost everyone on your team. I'm perfectly content keeping them together, but I think both can (and have) had really high degrees of success/chemistry with other players. That said, if keeping them together is a non-negotiable, I'd be perfectly happy with something like this if we snagged a 2C upgrade:

Buch-Thomas-Snuggy
Holloway-2C-Kyrou
Neighbours-Schenn-Bolduc
 
I'm one of the people that thinks the Thomas/Buch chemistry is overstated. I think they play well together because they are both really good/smart hockey players with vision that can play well with almost everyone on your team. I'm perfectly content keeping them together, but I think both can (and have) had really high degrees of success/chemistry with other players. That said, if keeping them together is a non-negotiable, I'd be perfectly happy with something like this if we snagged a 2C upgrade:

Buch-Thomas-Snuggy
Holloway-2C-Kyrou
Neighbours-Schenn-Bolduc
I won't be surprised if the couplet on that first line becomes Thomas and Snuggerud pretty quickly. But they need another winger that can win board battles and help to get the puck to Thomas, and is a threat to finish in his own right. Buchnevich is a great compliment for those two guys, but he's not the only option. I'm hesitant to put Neighbors on that line, but he could grow his way onto there without surprising me. I like that 3rd line.

All these projections look a lot better when you have a "2C" to build around.
 
Might not be a popular opinion, but if we end up getting a pass first type of center upgrade, I wouldn’t mind rolling a top 9 of:

Bolduc-Thomas-Buch
Holloway-Schenn-Kyrou
Neighbours-New C-Snuggy

1: I think we’d get more of a boost overall by putting the new center on the 3rd line and letting Schenn ride shotgun with Holloway/Kyrou again.
2: I haven’t been much of a fan of a Neighbours/Schenn pairing, so I’d like to avoid that on the 3rd line if necessary.
3: I think Bolduc would be the best 3rd guy for a Thomas/Buch line as I think he’s a better fit than Neighbours, and I think Snuggy would be better suited for a sheltered role next season than the matchup role Thomas will be in.
4: While it’d be a 3rd line on paper, we’d have three dangerous lines to roll out, which I feel would make us a harder team to matchup against.
 

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