2024-2025 Blues Multi-Purpose Thread.

[taylord22]

Saw this this morning but just realized I hadn’t seen it mentioned here yet.



We knew Dvorsky and Texier were going but good to see Schenner and Binner are going as well.

Both Canada and Sweden have very stacked rosters.

Surprised Schenn is playing, just from the perspective that he was held out of practice a few times. Also very indicative that whatever Thomas was dealing with doesn't have the quickest turnaround in terms of recovery. Maybe same for Kyrou, as well...?

Rivers went on a rant yesterday on 101 that he didn't like how Armstrong "swallowed the key" about the injuries - he wants/wanted people to know what guys were dealing with. He alluded to a torn rotator cuff, broken jaw, someone needing four needles in their ankle every night, etc.

 

[STL fan in MN]

Surprised Schenn is playing, just from the perspective that he was held out of practice a few times. Also very indicative that whatever Thomas was dealing with doesn't have the quickest turnaround in terms of recovery. Maybe same for Kyrou, as well...?

Rivers went on a rant yesterday on 101 that he didn't like how Armstrong "swallowed the key" about the injuries - he wants/wanted people to know what guys were dealing with. He alluded to a torn rotator cuff, broken jaw, someone needing four needles in their ankle every night, etc.

Well then spill the beans, Jamie! Don’t just list the injuries but connect them to individual players.

I don’t recall Schenn missing any practices. Thomas missed 2-3 but he’s really the only one I recall missing practices in the playoffs.

Thomas is a borderline player to make Canada’s Olympic team so this would’ve been good for him to go. And I bet he would’ve…had he been healthy enough for it to make sense. I got the sense he was dealing with a pulled groin or something like that.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

Well then spill the beans, Jamie! Don’t just list the injuries but connect them to individual players.

I don’t recall Schenn missing any practices. Thomas missed 2-3 but he’s really the only one I recall missing practices in the playoffs.

Thomas is a borderline player to make Canada’s Olympic team so this would’ve been good for him to go. And I bet he would’ve…had he been healthy enough for it to make sense. I got the sense he was dealing with a pulled groin or something like that.

I’m sure Thomas was the guy with the ankle injury. I thought that had already been reported.

Wouldn’t be surprised to hear Kyrou had a shoulder injury. He sure acted like it.

 

[Oberyn]

Are Thomas and Kyrou even eligible to play in the WC with the Hockey Canada investigation still ongoing?

 

[Majorityof1]

I’m sure Thomas was the guy with the ankle injury. I thought that had already been reported.

Wouldn’t be surprised to hear Kyrou had a shoulder injury. He sure acted like it.

No, no, no. You are doing it wrong Kyrou doesn't get the benefit of the doubt. He plays Fortnite and he got visibly upset after an entire arena of his own fanbase boo'd him over a nothing quote where the reporter sandbagged him. Those are truly heinous crimes.

So no benefit of the doubt. Never mind he is extremlly talented and has not shied away from contact all year until he got hurt. He is lazy and wimpy and whatever other insults the worst parts of this fanbase want to throw at him. Its better to have an easy person to blame than actually analyze why we lost.

Sarcasm aside, I agree with your guess that his shoulder was an issue.

 

[tfriede2]

Are Thomas and Kyrou even eligible to play in the WC with the Hockey Canada investigation still ongoing?

The investigation has been over for a while, right? They’re in litigation now, and neither Thomas or Kyrou are defendants, so I don’t see why they would be ineligible.

 

[taylord22]

Well then spill the beans, Jamie! Don’t just list the injuries but connect them to individual players.

I don’t recall Schenn missing any practices. Thomas missed 2-3 but he’s really the only one I recall missing practices in the playoffs.

Thomas is a borderline player to make Canada’s Olympic team so this would’ve been good for him to go. And I bet he would’ve…had he been healthy enough for it to make sense. I got the sense he was dealing with a pulled groin or something like that.

I thought the same and/or hamstring just from how much he stayed off his edges. I hope it wasn't still the ankle that was bothering him - that's a rough healing pattern, if so.

He also mentioned Leddy's "weird" injury again - he didn't look comfortable at all, so I took that to mean whatever it was, is still a problem.

The investigation has been over for a while, right? They’re in litigation now, and neither Thomas or Kyrou are defendants, so I don’t see why they would be ineligible.

I did a search and could not find any information suggesting it had been lifted. 4Nations existed outside of Hockey Canada's scope, but it's strange we're not seeing any asterisks next to Thomas (and particularly) Makar for the Olympics next year. The criminal trial will likely be over by that point, so perhaps that's what they're waiting on.

 

[Davimir Tarablad]

The investigation has been over for a while, right? They’re in litigation now, and neither Thomas or Kyrou are defendants, so I don’t see why they would be ineligible.

Could be that there was a special arrangement made between the court and the league to allow players who are in the playoffs be eligible to testify via zoom instead of in person. But now that we're out, Thomas and Kyrou no longer have the exemption and would need to go to court if they are called on to testify.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

No, no, no. You are doing it wrong Kyrou doesn't get the benefit of the doubt. He plays Fortnite and he got visibly upset after an entire arena of his own fanbase boo'd him over a nothing quote where the reporter sandbagged him. Those are truly heinous crimes.

So no benefit of the doubt. Never mind he is extremlly talented and has not shied away from contact all year until he got hurt. He is lazy and wimpy and whatever other insults the worst parts of this fanbase want to throw at him. Its better to have an easy person to blame than actually analyze why we lost.

Sarcasm aside, I agree with your guess that his shoulder was an issue.

People forget he's the same player who leveled a defender to take the puck away in OT a few weeks ago. He's not a behemoth out there, but the degree to which he was pushed around pointed to a physical ailment he was trying to play through. The bigger issue was the lack of talented depth around him. His skating was fine, but he wasn't finishing and he couldn't withstand pretty mundane levels of checking.

 

[STL fan in MN]

I’m sure Thomas was the guy with the ankle injury. I thought that had already been reported.

Wouldn’t be surprised to hear Kyrou had a shoulder injury. He sure acted like it.

Where’d you see that reported? That Thomas’ injury was to his ankle? Hopefully not still from the broken ankle that kept him out earlier in the season. If so, that tells me the likely returned too soon. Don’t need another guy pushing it and then having to have their entire ankle bolted together due to arthritis (looking at you Mr. Krug).

 

[STL fan in MN]

Are Thomas and Kyrou even eligible to play in the WC with the Hockey Canada investigation still ongoing?

Yeah, they’re eligible. Everyone except the accused were cleared to play before the 4 Nations. I suppose the IIHF could suspend them but I doubt it. It was Hockey Canada that suspended them and it was Hockey Canada that lifted the suspension (except for the 5 facing trial).

 

[ScratchCatFever]

So every once in a while, I like to hop on HockeyDB and review past draft archives with a focus on the middle to late rounds, just to see how many guys taken past the first and second end up becoming something. This one is.. gonna hurt.

In 2012 in the 4th round with pick #116 The Blues drafted Nicholas Walters, a defensemen out of the WHL. A name I remember their being mild hopes of for carving out a bottom pair sandpaper roll. He never played a game in the NHL.

Four picks later at pick #120 The Carolina Hurricanes selected a US born defensemen out of the USHL Chicago Steel by the name of Jaccob Slavin.. oof. Even more miraculously, he was the final pick of three that Carolina made in that round!

No. I'm not attempting to create a boardwide crying game. But at some point, one those mid-rounders will inevitably hit like that for us. Parayko was indeed a gem but but nowhere near elite. I can certainly understand the angle of having to suffer through mediocrity, if not total obscurity for a number of years to acquire elite talent. But the organization has made it clear they seek a different path to contention. An absolute gem in one of the later rounds would go a long way in creating middle ground for the opposing schools of thought on which direction should be taken for long term viability.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Another late round gem for us was Lee Stempniak. He had a solid career, but his main value was being traded for Steen.

 

[Brian39]

So every once in a while, I like to hop on HockeyDB and review past draft archives with a focus on the middle to late rounds, just to see how many guys taken past the first and second end up becoming something. This one is.. gonna hurt.

In 2012 in the 4th round with pick #116 The Blues drafted Nicholas Walters, a defensemen out of the WHL. A name I remember their being mild hopes of for carving out a bottom 6 sandpaper roll. He never played a game in the NHL.

Four picks later at pick #120 The Carolina Hurricanes selected a US born defensemen out of the USHL Chicago Steel by the name of Jaccob Slavin.. oof. Even more miraculously, he was the final pick of three that Carolina made in that round!

No. I'm not attempting to create a boardwide crying game. But at some point, one those mid-rounders will inevitably hit like that for us. Parayko was indeed a gem but but nowhere near elite. I can certainly understand the angle of having to suffer through mediocrity, if not total obscurity for a number of years to acquire elite talent. But the organization has made it clear they seek a different path to contention. An absolute gem in one of the later rounds would go a long way in creating middle ground for the opposing schools of thought on which direction should be taken for long term viability.

I don't think the gap between Slavin and Parayko is nearly big enough to be lamenting about not finding the shiniest diamond in the rough. Slavin is a hell of a player, but I wouldn't say with 100% confidence that we win the Cup in 2019 if we had drafted Slavin instead of Parayko. They play on opposite sides and Slavin wouldn't have partnered with J-Bo to create that incredible shut down pair. Who knows what the rest blueline looks like if you swap those two. Slavin has helped bring zero Cups to Carolina while Parayko played a massive role in bringing a Cup to St. Louis. The 2012 Blues draft doesn't hurt me in the slightest and the gem we did find was franchise-altering.

Finding mid-late round gems is great for a scouting department and is a huge boost to any team. But I don't think it can be viewed as a path to contention because luck is a huge component to finding those guys. No one is identifying a prospect as an elite, top tier prospect and waiting 3, 4, or 5 rounds to select them. These gems in the 4th or 5th round are (at best) viewed as 2nd round talents by scouting staffs and then everything goes right in their development. No scouting staff in the world can consistently and reliably find eventual elite players in the middle rounds. Those picks are like lottery tickets. Most will return zero value. A small amount will return modest value, and an extremely small amount will return a jackpot. The ROI is good enough to keep a few in your portfolio, but they can't be the basis of your plan.

 

[Beninnola]

Strickland posted long chat with Doug:

 

[SirPaste]

So every once in a while, I like to hop on HockeyDB and review past draft archives with a focus on the middle to late rounds, just to see how many guys taken past the first and second end up becoming something. This one is.. gonna hurt.

In 2012 in the 4th round with pick #116 The Blues drafted Nicholas Walters, a defensemen out of the WHL. A name I remember their being mild hopes of for carving out a bottom 6 sandpaper roll. He never played a game in the NHL.

Four picks later at pick #120 The Carolina Hurricanes selected a US born defensemen out of the USHL Chicago Steel by the name of Jaccob Slavin.. oof. Even more miraculously, he was the final pick of three that Carolina made in that round!

No. I'm not attempting to create a boardwide crying game. But at some point, one those mid-rounders will inevitably hit like that for us. Parayko was indeed a gem but but nowhere near elite. I can certainly understand the angle of having to suffer through mediocrity, if not total obscurity for a number of years to acquire elite talent. But the organization has made it clear they seek a different path to contention. An absolute gem in one of the later rounds would go a long way in creating middle ground for the opposing schools of thought on which direction should be taken for long term viability.

I'm sure you could find a similar situation in almost every draft where you take a mid/late round flyer on a guy who never pans out and a solid player was taken shortly thereafter. I don't see much of a difference between Parayko and Slavin, pretty similar players to be honest. Blues had 3 mid/late round gems on the cup team in Parayko, Binnington, and Blais. Obviously not elite players although I'd argue Binny/Parayko were in 2019 but they do ok with their later round picks. Tucker a recent example of getting good usage out of a late pick, and we have a good stable of prospects taken between the 3-5 rounds right now where I think we might have a player or two. Obviously finding a Kaprizov, Bratt, or Hagel would be huge but its pretty rare.

 

[Drubilly]

So every once in a while, I like to hop on HockeyDB and review past draft archives with a focus on the middle to late rounds, just to see how many guys taken past the first and second end up becoming something. This one is.. gonna hurt.

In 2012 in the 4th round with pick #116 The Blues drafted Nicholas Walters, a defensemen out of the WHL. A name I remember their being mild hopes of for carving out a bottom 6 sandpaper roll. He never played a game in the NHL.

Four picks later at pick #120 The Carolina Hurricanes selected a US born defensemen out of the USHL Chicago Steel by the name of Jaccob Slavin.. oof. Even more miraculously, he was the final pick of three that Carolina made in that round!

No. I'm not attempting to create a boardwide crying game. But at some point, one those mid-rounders will inevitably hit like that for us. Parayko was indeed a gem but but nowhere near elite. I can certainly understand the angle of having to suffer through mediocrity, if not total obscurity for a number of years to acquire elite talent. But the organization has made it clear they seek a different path to contention. An absolute gem in one of the later rounds would go a long way in creating middle ground for the opposing schools of thought on which direction should be taken for long term viability.

I’m really excited for Pekarcik and Stancl. I’ve this said before and will again in the future but I feel the 2023 draft will be a positive tipping point for the franchise.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

Strickland posted long chat with Doug:

And? What did they say?

 

[ScratchCatFever]

I don't think the gap between Slavin and Parayko is nearly big enough to be lamenting about not finding the shiniest diamond in the rough. Slavin is a hell of a player, but I wouldn't say with 100% confidence that we win the Cup in 2019 if we had drafted Slavin instead of Parayko. They play on opposite sides and Slavin wouldn't have partnered with J-Bo to create that incredible shut down pair. Who knows what the rest blueline looks like if you swap those two. Slavin has helped bring zero Cups to Carolina while Parayko played a massive role in bringing a Cup to St. Louis. The 2012 Blues draft doesn't hurt me in the slightest and the gem we did find was franchise-altering.

Finding mid-late round gems is great for a scouting department and is a huge boost to any team. But I don't think it can be viewed as a path to contention because luck is a huge component to finding those guys. No one is identifying a prospect as an elite, top tier prospect and waiting 3, 4, or 5 rounds to select them. These gems in the 4th or 5th round are (at best) viewed as 2nd round talents by scouting staffs and then everything goes right in their development. No scouting staff in the world can consistently and reliably find eventual elite players in the middle rounds. Those picks are like lottery tickets. Most will return zero value. A small amount will return modest value, and an extremely small amount will return a jackpot. The ROI is good enough to keep a few in your portfolio, but they can't be the basis of your plan.

Agreed. And if my post came off as a dig at our scouts for not taking Slavin, it wasn't meant to be that, nor a shot at Parayko who I believe was our 3rd that same year. At that point of the draft it's about the acuity of the scout to have identified a tool (maybe two) or trait that, if groomed properly could develop into an asset, and if all else goes pretty much perfect in their development, perhaps more. It's both fun and bit torturous to imagine if we walked out of that draft with both of those names as our 3rd and 4th.

 

[bleedblue1223]

And? What did they say?

More along of the lines of what has been said, just a longer conversation. I listened to it during work, so I probably missed some stuff and can't really sum everything up. One thing I'd like to highlight, he talked about how Snuggerud was a very good practice player. How he earned respect from coaches and players from the start.

Mentioned that we'll have money to use if something makes sense. Talked about other topics that have been discussed before, what went into the Fowler trade, trade deadline, the turnaround, future with Steen, etc. They kind of talked about how Kyrou is a lighting rod in the fanbase, and compared him to Bouwmeester and how he was a similar lighting rod, and how with those players sometimes you don't appreciate them until they are gone.

He did talk about how he's told Steen the importance of being involved with the national team, and how much information that gains you for the NHL job. He mentioned Steen being involved with Swedish junior team giving us additional info on Stenberg and Lindstein. Then GM in training thing is sort of a unique setup, but I do think those little things will help Steen a lot compared to how some other former players are just given the job and run with it on their own.

 

[bleedblue1223]

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

Steen is looking more like a GM and less like a player.

 

[Beninnola]

And? What did they say?

You want it you got it.

On Fowler: Says he’s talked to Verbeek about him for 7-8 years, but otherwise didn’t know Fowler from “a hole in the ground” as a person. Later on says (paraphrase) “if Leddy doesn’t get hurt I don’t know if we do the Fowler deal”. Discusses Fowler’s extreme outperformance - that he was basically a top 10 nhl defenseman after we got him and said lots of nice things.

Strickland mentions an early game after Broberg/holloway scored in OT that one said that they wouldn’t have been on the ice if they were still in Edmonton. Doug quickly snuffs negativity towards Edmonton and discusses how the oilers are going for cups and doing well.

On Snuggerud: army says he earned his icetime but if Holloway injury different maybe Snuggerud’s icetime would have been different. Said Snuggerud is an excellent practice player similar to Sunny. Doug implies Rt38 wanted Snuggerud as a linemate at times as a result of practice habits. Really positive tones and words anytime Snuggerud is discussed. Later mentions he has raised his expectations for Snuggerud’s offseason. (implying to me they’re offering him a shot with RT38 if he has a good development offseason).

On Saad: Said nice things, that he’s a quiet guy. Rest of that chat is kind of a repeat I feel, or just stating the obvious about what happened. Doug: “He’s one of those people you respect but never know” because he’s so quiet.

Gives the players “90% credit” for the end of season run. (Ha)

On Suter: Army talked about Suter with a few past tense verbs but doesn’t close the door. Discusses his toughness.

On Kyrou: Discusses how Kyrou is a lightning rod for criticism - compares him to Bouwemeister and our fans complaining about him while he was doing well. Talks about the matchup of Schenn Stanley as the toughest Kyrou could face and also mentions he scored from the blue paint. Doug says some people just can’t be pleased.

On Parayko: really positive tones and words but nothing new.

Said that we’d have 10+ mil to sign a free agent if the situation presented itself. (Come on over Mitch)

On Dvorsky: can’t rush physical maturity

On Steen: mentions he should manage hockey Sweden because when you manage these teams you get an insane amount of insight.

On Next training camp: “Be a great teammate. Take your teammates job”

 

[Linkens Mastery]

You want it you got it.

On Fowler: Says he’s talked to Verbeek about him for 7-8 years, but otherwise didn’t know him from “a hole in the ground”. Later on says (paraphrase) “if Leddy doesn’t get hurt I don’t know if we do the Fowler deal”. Discusses Fowler’s extreme outperformance - that he was basically a top 10 nhl defenseman after we got him.

Strickland mentions an early game after Broberg/holloway scored in OT that one said that they wouldn’t have been on the ice if they were still in Edmonton. Doug quickly snuffs negativity towards Edmonton and discusses how the oilers are going for cups and doing well.

On Snuggerud: army says he earned his icetime but if Holloway injury different maybe Snuggerud’s icetime would have been different. Said Snuggerud is an excellent practice player similar to Sunny. Doug implies Rt38 wanted Snuggerud as a linemate at times as a result of practice habits. Really positive tones and words anytime Snuggerud is discussed. Later mentions he has raised his expectations for Snuggerud’s offseason. (implying to me they’re offering him a shot with RT38 if he has a good development offseason).

On Saad: Said nice things, that he’s a quiet guy. Rest of that chat is kind of a repeat I feel, or just stating the obvious about what happened. Doug: “He’s one of those people you respect but never know” because he’s so quiet.

Gives the players “90% credit” for the end of season run. (Ha)

On Suter: Army talked about Suter with a few past tense verbs but doesn’t close the door. Discusses his toughness.

On Kyrou: Discusses how Kyrou is a lightning rod for criticism - compares him to Bouwemeister and our fans complaining about him while he was doing well. Talks about the matchup of Schenn Stanley as the toughest Kyrou could face and also mentions he scored from the blue paint. Doug says some people just can’t be pleased.

On Parayko: really positive tones and words but nothing new.

Said that we’d have 10+ mil to sign a free agent if the situation presented itself. (Come on over Mitch)

On Dvorsky: can’t rush physical maturity

On Steen: mentions he should manage hockey Sweden because when you manage these teams you get an insane amount of insight.

On Next training camp: “Be a great teammate. Take your teammates job”

More along of the lines of what has been said, just a longer conversation. I listened to it during work, so I probably missed some stuff and can't really sum everything up. One thing I'd like to highlight, he talked about how Snuggerud was a very good practice player. How he earned respect from coaches and players from the start.

Mentioned that we'll have money to use if something makes sense. Talked about other topics that have been discussed before, what went into the Fowler trade, trade deadline, the turnaround, future with Steen, etc. They kind of talked about how Kyrou is a lighting rod in the fanbase, and compared him to Bouwmeester and how he was a similar lighting rod, and how with those players sometimes you don't appreciate them until they are gone.

He did talk about how he's told Steen the importance of being involved with the national team, and how much information that gains you for the NHL job. He mentioned Steen being involved with Swedish junior team giving us additional info on Stenberg and Lindstein. Then GM in training thing is sort of a unique setup, but I do think those little things will help Steen a lot compared to how some other former players are just given the job and run with it on their own.

Thank you. Was on my work break and I don't get service in my building so I couldnt listen.

 

[BlueMed]

This topic is probably dead and beaten, but:

The politics around team affiliated docs, facilities and services is complicated. There's money being exchanged on paper, but the affiliation is mutually beneficial. The team is doing a lot of the imaging volume in-house, so the total dollars around services rendered is chump change compared to other operational costs and offsets. In other words, the Blues have high expectations around quality of care, the affiliates have high expectations around brand prestige, individual reputations and exposure. Team affiliation is a way for those locations to lure in world class physicians, which is a hard and expensive thing for hospitals to do. Competition is fierce.

Regarding this topic specifically, and related to the above, the surgeons are not exclusive to the organization—they still maintain full clinical schedules with standard imaging reviews, pre/post-op appointments, and only perform surgeries during limited blocks each week. VIP treatment could mean squeezing a player in need of an outpatient procedure into a block on tight turnaround. That said, you're absolutely correct in assuming part of the arrangement is prioritizing discretion and private settings.

Not lending credence. Not calling the poster out.

Unrelated, but someone on Reddit posted a picture from the Cards game yesterday - both Holloway and Tucker were there (with 72, 4, 63, 30). The poster said they watched them both get up and walk without limitation, so...good sign there.

I was going to say that I don't see a cast, boot, or splint on Holloway's legs so that's really encouraging.