2024-2025 Blues Multi-Purpose Thread.

[BlueDream]

I think it is absolutely a crazy take.

Tarasenko was 3rd in goals and 17th in points leaguewide in the 5 year stretch from 2014/15 through 2018/19. In the same window, he was 3rd in playoff goals too. Narrow the sample to his best 3 years and he was 2nd in goals and 6th in points leaguewide. Tarasenko had back-to-back-to-back seasons where he finished top 15 in both goals and points. He was top 5 in goals all three seasons.

Last year there were 47 players who scored 30+ goals and 52 players who scored 70+ points. 27 guys did both. 18 guys had 30+ goals and 80+ points. I love Holloway's motor, but the 'rest' of his game doesn't bridge the gap between being a 30g/70p guy in today's NHL and being the legit elite scorer Tarasenko was. I think the injury-riddled Tarasenko we saw post-Cup that no longer had the elite shot has made people not quite remember just how good he was in his prime.

Realistically, the best comp for Tarasenko in today's game is Kaprizov. Over the last 5 years Kaprizov is 8th in goals and 15th in points. 6th in goals and 12th in points in his best 3 year stretch. He's finished 6th and 9th in goals as well as finishing 11th and 5th in points. Pretty damn comparable to Tarasenko's rankings. Money/term aside, it would be absolutely crazy to take Holloway over Kaprizov.

I'm extremely happy with Holloway. I think/hope he's going to be here a long time and I think he can be a key player for a winner. He's broken out like crazy in his age 23 season, which is the same age of Tarasenko's huge breakout where he was 5th in goals and 10th in points. Holloway is currently 59th in goals and 51st in points. Let's be real here. The intangibles/style don't bridge that gap, especially since one of Tarasenko's intangibles was that he was money in the playoffs.

No, Kaprizov is way better than Tarasenko and it’s really not close.

Tarasenko had one 40 goal season and one PPG season in his entire career, where he hit 82 points.

Kaprizov has only played 5 seasons and already has 4 PPG seasons and three 40-goal seasons (and would have his fourth if he didn’t get injured this season). In his two best seasons he has already hit 108 points and 96 points. Tarasenko never came close to that.

I’m probably the Lone Ranger here, but I’d take Holloway over Tarasenko all day long. I just like his style better. Holloway, Neighbors and Bolduc are adding an element of grit we havenr had in a while. This team is really adopting an identity now.

I’m with you. I’m not even going to debate who will be better but in terms of favorite players, I love Holloway’s style way more. I like guys that play more of an all around game.

Backes did an interview on the radio last season about his days as captain, and it was really telling that Tarasenko wasn’t as big of a “team first” guy as Blues fans try to act like. He basically said everyone was bought in and the final guy they had to get bought in was Tarasenko, which took a while. Once that happened he said it was pretty smooth but it was noticeable the way he kind of singled him out as the one guy that wasn’t on the same page as everyone else. Seemed like he was always too concerned about his own powerplay time and stuff like that.

 

[STL fan in MN]

The thing with Tarasenko is I was always left wanting more from him. His peak was good but outside those 3ish years, I was constantly questioning if his offense was enough justify the areas of his game that were quite lacking. He was good but I’ve always preferred more complete two-way players than offensive dynamos that are a train wreck defensively.

That’s my gut feeling anyway. Now watch Brian come in and provide a lawyerish breakdown with multiple bullet points on why I’m horrifically wrong.

 

[BlueMed]

The thing with Tarasenko is I was always left wanting more from him. His peak was good but outside those 3ish years, I was constantly questioning if his offense was enough justify the areas of his game that were quite lacking. He was good but I’ve always preferred more complete two-way players than offensive dynamos that are a train wreck defensively.

That’s my gut feeling anyway. Now watch Brian come in and provide a lawyerish breakdown with multiple bullet points on why I’m horrifically wrong.

Personally, I never found Tarasenko to be a trainwreck defensively. I remember him backchecking pretty hard and being in the right positions, and that's all anyone could ask for out of a highly talented winger.

 

[joe galiba]

in each of Vlads 3 best years there were only 5 players with more than 80 points, the game was completely different

 

[Mike Liut]

Vlad had a higher offensive ceiling obviously, but Holloway is looking like he could be a much better all around player. This is basically his first full season and look at this monster. He’s an all around stud.

 

[ArenaRat]

From time to time I head over to the Oilers gripe thread on losing Holloway and Broberg. Most blame Oilers management for not matching Holloway but give a pass on Broberg due to the price tag. But can always find some clinging to a view that blames Holloway for not being a company man and rejecting the Blues' offer, which is hilarious in itself. And most still consider Broberg a middling/ok player who they're just fine not having because they have... wait for it... Brent Kulak. Quality entertainment for free.

 

[Reality Czech]

No, Kaprizov is way better than Tarasenko and it’s really not close.

Tarasenko had one 40 goal season and one PPG season in his entire career, where he hit 82 points.

Kaprizov has only played 5 seasons and already has 4 PPG seasons and three 40-goal seasons (and would have his fourth if he didn’t get injured this season). In his two best seasons he has already hit 108 points and 96 points. Tarasenko never came close to that.


I’m with you. I’m not even going to debate who will be better but in terms of favorite players, I love Holloway’s style way more. I like guys that play more of an all around game.

Backes did an interview on the radio last season about his days as captain, and it was really telling that Tarasenko wasn’t as big of a “team first” guy as Blues fans try to act like. He basically said everyone was bought in and the final guy they had to get bought in was Tarasenko, which took a while. Once that happened he said it was pretty smooth but it was noticeable the way he kind of singled him out as the one guy that wasn’t on the same page as everyone else. Seemed like he was always too concerned about his own powerplay time and stuff like that.

While I agree with you that Kaprizov is another level above Tarasenko, let's not forget that when Vladi scored 40 goals very few players around the league did. Last year 15 guys had 40 goals and a handful more were just below that. Tarasenko's peak came during a less offensive period in the NHL so you have to take that into account.

I'm not sure I'm buying your last paragraph about Tarasenko though. He might have had a prickly and moody personality but I never questioned his desire to win. I'm not gonna believe that he put his own stats over the team's success. It takes time for young players to get it, so I'm sure Tarasenko (and Kaprizov) were no exceptions to that.

 

[TheOrganist]

From time to time I head over to the Oilers gripe thread on losing Holloway and Broberg. Most blame Oilers management for not matching Holloway but give a pass on Broberg due to the price tag. But can always find some clinging to a view that blames Holloway for not being a company man and rejecting the Blues' offer, which is hilarious in itself. And most still consider Broberg a middling/ok player who they're just fine not having because they have... wait for it... Brent Kulak. Quality entertainment for free.

I was reading through the most current pages from that thread at 3 AM for some reason...one of two oddballs toeing the company line but most are being talked off the ledge.

 

[joe galiba]

best 3 years
G/game 9, 7, 5 vs 6, 3, 8
adj points 5, 10, n/a vs 10, 10, n/a
adj goals created 5, 10, n/a vs 8, 6, 6
off point shares 5, 10, n/a vs 7, 6, 7
(n/a means not top 10)

which is which?
now Kaprizov will have the better overall career if he avoids the injuries that derailed Vald's career, but Tarasenko and Kaprizov are almost identical when comparing peak Vlad to the Kapp we have seen so far

 

[bleedblue1223]

When you factor in the games that Kaprizov missed in 22/23 and this season, the comparison becomes Kaprizov pretty distinctly.

 

[joe galiba]

When you factor in the games that Kaprizov missed in 22/23 and this season, the comparison becomes Kaprizov pretty distinctly.

Not really, if you extrapolate his numbers to have played 82 games that season he would have been 6th in goals and 17th in points
Vald's 3 top seasons 5/10, 4/12, 4/10 vs 5/5, 6/17, 8/11 (using the extrapolated points for that season)

as they compare to the league leaders they are as identical as you can get

 

[bleedblue1223]

For a 3 year peak, they are similar, when we extend it to 5 seasons, which does not include any of his shoulder issues, Tarasenko drops to 23rd in points/game and Kaprizov remains top 10 in his 5 year stretch. In the same 3 year peak, Tarasenko was right with Panarin and Kucherov, but they've proven to be superior players.

Kaprizov is simply a superior player once you pull back from just looking at a 3 year peak. When comparing players, we never fixate on a short peak like that.

And getting away from that comp, the whole discussion kicked off by someone saying they'd be tempted to take Holloway over Tarasenko. To make that a fair comp let's compare Holloway's post-Monty peak to the 10th scorer during the same stretch. Holloway is 22nd in points/game, 10th and 11th are Keller and Connor. That doesn't feel like in an insane take.

Time will tell what Holloway's peak actually is. Plenty of players have had crazy 40+ game stretches, but not able to sustain it over multiple seasons. If Holloway is a ppg winger with great defensive play, it's not going to be that crazy of a take for someone to prefer him over the pre-injury Tarasenko, and yes that includes his 5 year peak, not just his best 3 seasons.

 

[MortiestOfMortys]

I think the Tarasenko-Holloway comps are silly, (a) because they are such different players, and (b) I fully admit to being a Tarasenko fanboy. From a pure skill perspective, it’s between him and Hull for the best players I’ve ever seen in a blue note.

But if I’m Army/Steen, I’m extending Holloway as soon as possible. I want him around for the next 10 years. Dude plays “Blues hockey” as well as anybody.

 

[Mike Liut]

Tarasenko at his peak, averaged 35g per year. I think Holloway will average 30g and play much more of a complete game.

 

[Beninnola]

Maybe my perception:

The difference between tarasenko and Holloway is like the difference between Kyrou and Holloway.

Kyrou is more potent, Tarasenko had an area his shot just teleported in. They’re weapons - huge parts of the team and competitive advantages.

It took/will take a long time for those 2 guys to be in the group you put on the ice in a tie game with a minute left, or if you’re up by one, or down by one. Sometimes you throw Kyrou and tarasenko out there in these moments, but often you’re not using them.

Holloway you put on the ice and there is no question as to whether you should or not, except whether he is too tired because you just used him. Holloway is a different class of player. Bonafide shot at being a 1A. A stud. He can be used with the offensive group to amplify it or be used with the defensive group to amplify it. He has the chance to elevate well above where he is now as he grows, strengthens, and learns.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

Maybe my perception:

The difference between tarasenko and Holloway is like the difference between Kyrou and Holloway.

Kyrou is more potent, Tarasenko had an area his shot just teleported in. They’re weapons - huge parts of the team and competitive advantages.

It took/will take a long time for those 2 guys to be in the group you put on the ice in a tie game with a minute left, or if you’re up by one, or down by one. Sometimes you throw Kyrou and tarasenko out there in these moments, but often you’re not using them.

Holloway you put on the ice and there is no question as to whether you should or not, except whether he is too tired because you just used him. Holloway is a different class of player. Bonafide shot at being a 1A. A stud. He can be used with the offensive group to amplify it or be used with the defensive group to amplify it. He has the chance to elevate well above where he is now as he grows, strengthens, and learns.

Agreed. Holloway is this group’s Schwartz while Kyrou is our Tarasenko.

 

[Fez Whatley]

Agreed. Holloway is this group’s Schwartz while Kyrou is our Tarasenko.

And schenns still schenn

 

[Mike Liut]

I’d like to see Snuggs play, but I’m not sure I’d mess with things

 

[BlueOil]

Personally, I never found Tarasenko to be a trainwreck defensively. I remember him backchecking pretty hard and being in the right positions, and that's all anyone could ask for out of a highly talented winger.

 

[Majorityof1]

I’d like to see Snuggs play, but I’m not sure I’d mess with things

I think we can do both, at least while Buchnevich is out. Texier played 9 minutes last game. He slotted in in a top 9 role, but we double shifted Sunny to get him more ice time while the "3rd line" wings got the least ice time. Slot snuggy in as a top 9, but limit his ice time.

I do want Monty to see him in practice and make sure he is ready before olaying him. I have not seen an NHL ready prospect when watching him. But getting a game or two while Buchnevuch is out at 9-10 minutes shouldn't be an issue if he can hold his own, especially if we give him PP time like we did with Dvo.

 

[Mike Liut]

I think we can do both, at least while Buchnevich is out. Texier played 9 minutes last game. He slotted in in a top 9 role, but we double shifted Sunny to get him more ice time while the "3rd line" wings got the least ice time. Slot snuggy in as a top 9, but limit his ice time.

I do want Monty to see him in practice and make sure he is ready before olaying him. I have not seen an NHL ready prospect when watching him. But getting a game or two while Buchnevuch is out at 9-10 minutes shouldn't be an issue if he can hold his own, especially if we give him PP time like we did with Dvo.

Isn’t Buch ready now?

 

[LGB]

Isn’t Buch ready now?

Might be a good idea to give him some maintenance days down the stretch. I’m pretty convinced he was concussed.

 

[ToastedRavioli]

Montgomery told the media that Buchnevich will be in the lineup tomorrow against Colorado

 

[Majorityof1]

Isn’t Buch ready now?

Ah, I didn't hear that. That makes it more difficult as we may not want Bolduc and Snuggy together. Although I think Bolduc is holding his own defensively.

 

[Stealth JD]

I want Snuggy and Dvorsky to start getting reps together in Springfield, immediately!

Stenberg-Dvorsky-Snuggerrud

Kid line 3.0