- Apr 25, 2006
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Dallas lost to Stuart Skinner last year. Is that inferior enough?
It's not a personnel issue, it's a game plan issue.
2024 2025 Around the League Part 2
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It's not a personnel issue, it's a game plan issue.
Is he as inferior as Philipp Grubauer or Alexandar Georgiev?
The answer is no, that is not inferior enough.
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Well may finally have some adversity to face in a round vs Bednar when he's never had any. Bednar has had plenty of adversity when facing Deboer though.
People are talking about Deboer as if he's Scotty Bowman or something when he's beat Bednar once when the Avs were barely even in their contention window and he was the coach of a Sharks team who was 1) in the middle of their contention window and 2) constantly disappointed in the playoffs.
The Vegas one fair enough, that was an out coaching for sure.
And last year Bednar lost Nichushkin AGAIN in the middle of a playoff run and then had to with with Drouin being hurt and a goalie that couldn't save a god damn thing. You'd like to see Bednar win that series for sure and he probably could have done better but Deboer has never had any sort of adversity to face in any series with Bednar. I don't think he's some unbeatable force that Bednar could never figure out. Now if Bednar loses to him when he doesn't have Miro than we can talk, but until then... It's a major overreaction imo.
- Jan 18, 2016
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Or when the cup contending Sharks are playing an Avs team who had made the playoffs for the 2nd year in a row and were still a heavily flawed team.
And still almost beat Deboer.
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Look, we can find all the excuses we want, but this wasn't a one off. It wasn't even twice.
DeBoer has eliminated Bednar three times with three different teams; San Jose, Vegas, and Dallas.
He has Bednar's number until he doesn't. Let's hope we break the streak this year.
DeBoer has eliminated Bednar three times with three different teams; San Jose, Vegas, and Dallas.
He has Bednar's number until he doesn't. Let's hope we break the streak this year.
- Jan 18, 2016
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I can understand the Vegas and Dallas losses. But the San Jose loss shouldn't prove anything at all imo.
dahrougem2
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If you purely look at the series wins/losses yes of course DeBoer "has Bednar's number" but that leaves out all context, and we know context is always important.
I'll keep repeating it: DeBoer has NEVER faced adversity against the Avs. He's always had a fully healthy lineup ready to go. The Avs have played him without their 2nd line center entirely in 2021 and with a plethora of issues in 2024.
This season might be the first time he has to face adversity either without Heiskanen or a definitely hobbled version of him. Let's see how he does and let's see how Bednar does.
I'll keep repeating it: DeBoer has NEVER faced adversity against the Avs. He's always had a fully healthy lineup ready to go. The Avs have played him without their 2nd line center entirely in 2021 and with a plethora of issues in 2024.
This season might be the first time he has to face adversity either without Heiskanen or a definitely hobbled version of him. Let's see how he does and let's see how Bednar does.
Goddamn Landy getting off the ice the laziest way possible (and Nemeth just sitting there on the bench) that ends up overturning what would've been the game-tying goal. Also, Grubauer, who somehow is worse defending wraparound chances than he is breakaway chances, giving up the GWG to Donskoi. Urrrrrgh, that series was so f***ing frustrating. At least Landy owned his failure afterward. They were so close.
Hell, going back even farther, Avs could've beaten the Preds since Rinne was not good in that series, but Avs were saddled with a concussed Bernier who had no business being in net (to this day I want to punch Tomas Jurco in the mouth for what he did, yes I know that wouldn't go every well for me, but I still want to). Sorry, had to rant even though that has nothing to do with DeBoer.
Anyway, if people didn't know already I hold some ridiculous grudges.
- Apr 25, 2006
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You cannot leave out how he won those series. The Avs couldn't skate because the defense couldn't do anything against the forecheck. That wasn't on Georgiev or Nuke.
Avsfan1921
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Yet 99% of people that point to Deboer outcoaching Bednar leave out the points dahrougem2 brings up, and that seems perfectly acceptable to them.
Take out talent and it affects the whole lineup. Maybe they looked like they were skating in quicksand partly because quality players were not available to be played?
Bednar has not beaten deboer in a series, fact.
Bednar has had horrible luck when it comes to personnel, also fact.
If he loses this year, with this roster as constructed while being stifled, I’d tend to believe there could be some credence to this theory but until then, nah.
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That's almost as bad as when Gru and Francouz got hurt and we had to play Hutchinson against Dallas.
Looking back, goaltending has been a huge issue for pretty much the entire window. Even when we won the cup it was despite shitty goaltending.
dahrougem2
Registered User
The Avs in 2021 against DeBoer did just fine. That was as even a series as you will find analytically. Go back and look at the numbers. Avs better in 3 games, Vegas better in 3 games. Avs were simply done in by goaltending.
I will not dispute Dallas was better in 2024, but again a guy with everything at his disposal vs the Avs having major roster issues.
Let's see what happens this year.
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Listen, if the Avs can skate and play well against Dallas this year nobody will be happier than I. But since it didn't happen in game 6 last year despite all the effort (everyone looked dead tired trying), I have doubts.
When all the players gave all they had and they still couldn't get going, that's worrying.
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Avsfan1921
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This team does have a tendency to fight itself for sure. When things aren’t going smoothly, they can barely complete passes and seem to have no idea how to work as a unit which is wild. I don’t think this is a deboer specific problem though lol.
You're making each of those series sound like total dominance like what the Avs imposed on most of their opponents in 2022, and I don't think that's the case.
YES, the Avs struggle with teams that like to stack bodies in front of the net and also forecheck hard. They do so against all kinds of trap teams. They really don't like generating offense from the hashmarks on down, Henchy harped on that last year against the Stars--at least this year they brought in a bunch of players who seemingly thrive behind the goal line (Coyle isn't an offensive powerhouse but he's all about wreaking havoc deep in the attacking zone) so one hopes Bednar finally has the resources to neutralize that kind of opponent. We will see.
And you say you cannot leave out how he won those series. Okay, fair. But then you also cannot leave out that Bednar had objectively horrible goaltending in each one of those series. Not mediocre, not even bad. HORRIBLE. Neither Groob nor Georgiev were remotely up for the task. Both of those guys are hanging onto their NHL careers by a thread right now.
- Aug 25, 2006
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This 100%. DeBoer outcoaching Bednar is well overstated. If the Avs lose against him again this year with this lineup and Dallas is without Heskinen or he is playing hurt than yes I'll start admitting that he is in Bednar's head. Until then I want to see that series with DeBoer finally facing adversity for once.
No. It's not.
Both of the former Avs goalies are close to losing their NHL careers. Georgiev was objectively THE WORST goaltender in the entire f***ing league the first quarter of the season, if not more. Grubauer was literally in the minors for seven games this year.
Problematic as he is as a starter, Skinner is a legit starter in the NHL, the question is if he should be the feature goalie for a legit contender.
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Regardless, don't tell me he's close to being as bad as two guys who are playing like they don't belong anywhere near the NHL right now. Groob can't even hold down a backup spot at the moment, and Georgiev is actively helping the Sharks tank it.
Skinner is, at worst, a good backup.
- Jan 18, 2016
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Skinners been bad this year, but the last two season of being a full time starter he's been an ~average starter.
Ceremony
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It was by the ridiculous and haphazard standard the league applies to all their reviews. I think the weird configuration San Jose has their rink and benches set up played a big part as well, I believe that might have been why Landeskog didn't realize he was past the blue line when he headed to the bench.
To be clear I have no ill will toward C92, that was just a frustrating moment. I blame Groob's crap goaltending and the fact the Avs still didn't really have the depth at that point for a deep playoff run. I don't think it was any sort of vastly superior bench bossing by DeBoer.
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the_fan
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