CBJWerenski8
Rest in Peace Johnny
- Jun 13, 2009
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GDT: 2023 NHL Draft
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Columbus Jack
He's from Columbus
CBJWerenski8
Rest in Peace Johnny
- Jun 13, 2009
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Cowumbus
Registered User
I know that generally speaking, you shouldn’t draft for position, etc etc you should always take the best player available. But at some point, I think team fit has to be a consideration. Will Smith could well have a better career than Carlsson. I personally doubt it, but that’s besides my point. I’m worried that with Smith, we’d have too many similar players at the top of our lineup long term. Hell, we already have almost the exact kind of player Smith is touted to be in our lineup in Kent Johnson. Skilled as hell, but not the best skater describes both of them.
My question is can you sustainably win and go far with this type of lineup, where our top 6 is filled with just skilled players solely focused on offense? Or would it be better to take a player of Carlsson’s type to get some variety and try to complement Johnson, JG, and Laine?
All of this is moot if CBJ management believes Smith is that much better than Carlsson. But if they are similarly ranked, I think long term fit should be a consideration, and I think Carlsson, and Fantilli for that matter, are plainly the better long term fit than Smith.
My question is can you sustainably win and go far with this type of lineup, where our top 6 is filled with just skilled players solely focused on offense? Or would it be better to take a player of Carlsson’s type to get some variety and try to complement Johnson, JG, and Laine?
All of this is moot if CBJ management believes Smith is that much better than Carlsson. But if they are similarly ranked, I think long term fit should be a consideration, and I think Carlsson, and Fantilli for that matter, are plainly the better long term fit than Smith.
Crede777
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- Dec 16, 2009
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Obviously it's foolish to read anything into a short statement from Jarmo. That said, it seems to me based off this quote that the Jackets have Fantilli, Carlsson, and Smith as more or less equals on their draft board:
theathletic.com
My question is this: Given the difference in size and 2-way play between Fantilli/Carlsson and Smith, shouldn't Smith's offensive ceiling be significantly higher to compensate? And if his offensive ceiling is significantly higher, wouldn't that put him in a tier above Fantilli/Carlsson?
Blue Jackets at Anaheim's mercy when it comes to No. 3 pick in NHL Draft
The Blue Jackets are going to draft their future center today ... they just aren't sure what his name is yet.
theathletic.com
My question is this: Given the difference in size and 2-way play between Fantilli/Carlsson and Smith, shouldn't Smith's offensive ceiling be significantly higher to compensate? And if his offensive ceiling is significantly higher, wouldn't that put him in a tier above Fantilli/Carlsson?
We need to change the forward composition no matter who gets drafted.
That said, unless I’m missing something, there is NO WAY they should draft Smith over Carlsson. I haven’t watched any actual “gameplay” of the 2, and not much “shift by shift” stuff, but, just going by highlights Carlsson looks like the better OFFENSIVE player.
Is the “scouting report”, that Carlsson is that much “better” or “polished” defensively or as a “two way player”?? Because, offensively I see a just as good, just as versatile, and MUCH SMOOTHER player in Carlsson.
What does Smith have over Carlsson other than being a “better” (seemingly just better acceleration) skater?? Different styles, but, shooting/passing seem very similar, if not an edge to Carlsson.
I could see Carlsson getting picked before CBJ, and we end up with Fantilli. I’ve been of the idea that we wouldn’t get the chance to get him, so I haven’t watched much of him either, so I don’t know what he looks like when talking “shift by shift/game by game”, and maybe I’ve just been trying to sell myself on Carlsson and watching more of him, but, he seems like just as good of a pick for the CBJ as Fantilli, maybe better.
Fantilli I’m assuming brings a physical element to his game that Carlsson hasn’t quite developed and might not bring at the NHL level, along with legit offensive ability. Carlsson brings almost a guarantee at being a legit 2 way, scoring/passing center. I don’t see Smith having or bringing ANYTHING the other 2 do not.
That said, unless I’m missing something, there is NO WAY they should draft Smith over Carlsson. I haven’t watched any actual “gameplay” of the 2, and not much “shift by shift” stuff, but, just going by highlights Carlsson looks like the better OFFENSIVE player.
Is the “scouting report”, that Carlsson is that much “better” or “polished” defensively or as a “two way player”?? Because, offensively I see a just as good, just as versatile, and MUCH SMOOTHER player in Carlsson.
What does Smith have over Carlsson other than being a “better” (seemingly just better acceleration) skater?? Different styles, but, shooting/passing seem very similar, if not an edge to Carlsson.
I could see Carlsson getting picked before CBJ, and we end up with Fantilli. I’ve been of the idea that we wouldn’t get the chance to get him, so I haven’t watched much of him either, so I don’t know what he looks like when talking “shift by shift/game by game”, and maybe I’ve just been trying to sell myself on Carlsson and watching more of him, but, he seems like just as good of a pick for the CBJ as Fantilli, maybe better.
Fantilli I’m assuming brings a physical element to his game that Carlsson hasn’t quite developed and might not bring at the NHL level, along with legit offensive ability. Carlsson brings almost a guarantee at being a legit 2 way, scoring/passing center. I don’t see Smith having or bringing ANYTHING the other 2 do not.
Guess it really depends on how they view Carlsson's upside. There were people who viewed Sillinger as a better prospect than Johnson because of everything else he brought but it didnt take long for Johnson to outshine Cole. This case is a bit different as I feel the upsides offensively are fairly similar but maybe Jarmo and staff dont agree with thatObviously it's foolish to read anything into a short statement from Jarmo. That said, it seems to me based off this quote that the Jackets have Fantilli, Carlsson, and Smith as more or less equals on their draft board:
Blue Jackets at Anaheim's mercy when it comes to No. 3 pick in NHL Draft
The Blue Jackets are going to draft their future center today ... they just aren't sure what his name is yet.
My question is this: Given the difference in size and skating between Fantilli/Carlsson and Smith, shouldn't Smith's offensive ceiling be significantly higher to compensate? And if his offensive ceiling is significantly higher, wouldn't that put him in a tier above Fantilli/Carlsson since they are drafting based on that ceiling?
Crede777
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Sure but if Smith's upside is that much higher, shouldn't he be in a tier above Carlsson and Fantilli instead of equal?
I guess the flaw in my reasoning is the assumption that they are rating Smith's other facets lower than Fantilli and Carlsson based on everything I've seen from other sources.
ProfessorFink22
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- May 28, 2020
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This, agreed. I'm not saying you can't win a cup with players like Johnson, JG and Laine leading the charge... But you can't win one with ONLY those type of players. I can't think of a recent team who won a cup without a bit of playoff style edge in their top 6 forwards, and who didn't have at least one centre who was top end defensively.
People who are okay with taking Smith, please argue with me. Make me see the light, just in case that's who we end up with!
Crede777
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The argument is you always take the player you project as most productive and if you need that 2-way center you trade from a position of strength to acquire him.
Yeah its all gotta be taken into account. For example Gaudreau would outscore a guy like Bergeron or Kopitar almost every year but I dont think many of us would choose Gaudreau over those 2. I know Gaudreau is a winger and Smiths projects to most a winger but Im just debating the offense vs 2 way play
ProfessorFink22
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Truly elite, two way centres aren't that easy to get via trade, though... I think the whole point is that you need to draft them (Jarmo obviously believes this). Would any of the cup winners from the 2010s have traded their prime Anze Koptars, Toews, etc? Nope.
I don't know if Carlsson can be that guy or not... I just think there's a better chance of that happening than Will Smith being that guy. Why draft Smith just to try to trade another high end piece to get a 2 way center?
Double-Shift Lasse
Just post better
Indeed but in this case you've got three guys with different skill-sets but all of whom are about equal. So you don't have to "pass" on aa guy to get a guy who "fits." The equally-best guy already fits.
Crede777
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That's true in which case I wonder if the CBJ scouting report on Will Smith would match everything else we've seen with regards to his 2-way play. Maybe they think it's about as good as Fantilli or Carlsson's.
Jive Pawnbroker
One day next week
Double-Shift Lasse
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It would have to be I'd think. Damn well better be anyway.
And as I've said, I would disagree at the moment the pick is made but after that I'd do the fan thing and hope for the best. I've been wrong before so it's not a big deal to me.
Maybe save the time and effort until the pick is made
could easily be for nothing
Crede777
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Double-Shift Lasse
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KJ Dangler
Registered User
Montreal supposedly has Will Smith at #2 on their board , Hughes has worked with Smith first hand , and knows what the player is perhaps better than anyone … I think the above is correct , Jarmo and our scouts Have Fantilli at 2, you could tell from their reaction that 3 was a shot in the gut .. followed by Will Smith , and then Carlsson . The #cbj staff have really good instincts in spotting talent , people need to relax .. many times the teams big boards are much different than the lists the talking heads spew for months on end . I wouldnt be shocked if we trade up to 2 , to guarantee we can draft Fantilli, if there’s a time to overpay , today is that day .. Fantilli brings the skill , speed , size and nastiness the jackets covet .
I agree with what you say about our roster (mainly forward) composition.
What I disagree with, is that picking Carlsson (or Fantilli) over Smith really changes that at all.
The only thing they really impact is they all add to the younger offensive minded players we are FULL of. If it’s a guy like Fantilli or Smith they get, with the belief they will be a winger, I think it just adds to the probability that a winger would NEED to be moved, however with Carlsson added, I don’t think it’s any different.
Whether looking at the wingers individually, or the forwards in general, not only at the styles, but the overall numbers, we only have so many spots available, especially for “high end” or “high potential” offensive minded players.
A winger that a large group of people will be upset that we moved, I could see being moved later today or in the near future.
Laine or Chinakhov/Marchenko/Sillinger
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