Prospect Info: David Reinbacher

[Jaynki]

Thanks.

I think the misunderstanding is that you're using the word talent the way others use the word skill.

To a tough approximation: skill = talent + experience + conditioning.

Mesar doesn't currently have the skill to play in the NHL, but he does have the talent, or at least I hope he does.

English not my 1st language so im prone to those mistake.

Well then i think we are on the same page.

There is plenty of NHL talent who will have a failed career or stagnate elsewhere.

But true NHLer that has all the required skills outside of their pure hockey talent wont sleep long outside the NHL.

 

[montreal]

Not one?

Ok well I mean not going to go over every single player in greater detail.

Let's look at Kyle Chipchura

Drafted in 04

- played 28 games in the WHL in 05’ (I think he hurt his knee IIRC)

- played 59 games in the WHL in 06’ + 8 more in the AHL with the Hamilton Bulldogs

- played 80 games in the AHL + 22 AHL playoff games in 07’

- he split the 08’ season playing 36 NHL games + 38 AHL games

- he split the 09’ season playing 13 NHL games + 51 AHL games + 6 AHL playoff games.

Until he made his NHL debut in 08’ he had played a total of 110 AHL games and he added another 95 AHL games before he baecame a full time NHL player.

205 AHL games after 4 years in the WHL…

Not one??

How long do you think players should be in the AHL for? No team is keeping one of their top prospect down in the AHL for 3-4 years like Plekanec back in the day.

not one. No way was Chipchura slow cooked when he had a major injury in his draft year and then that the achillies injury that slowed him down even more.

You put DLR on the list when he was in the NHL at 19 when he should have been in the OHL. What a joke, how in the world can you honestly think that DLR was slow cook when he was clearly rushed. I could go on and on and on for each one. The list is a complete joke and a waste of time.

If there's one player i can think of that was slow cooked in the last 20 years, it would be Pleks and that worked out well

 

[Yasuo]

not one. No way was Chipchura slow cooked when he had a major injury in his draft year and then that the achillies injury that slowed him down even more.

You put DLR on the list when he was in the NHL at 19 when he should have been in the OHL. What a joke, how in the world can you honestly think that DLR was slow cook when he was clearly rushed. I could go on and on and on for each one. The list is a complete joke and a waste of time.

If there's one player i can think of that was slow cooked in the last 20 years, it would be Pleks and that worked out well

Pleks would probably have been in the nhl in 2004-2005 if not for the lockout. Other than that he probably needed his first 2 ahl year were he improved a lot from his first to second year.

 

[Andy]

All this talk about slow cooking.

Can someone give examples of current good to great nhl players that have been slow cooked in the ahl?

Looking at top point leaders last year:
McDavid: No
Draisaitl: No
Pasternak: No
Kucherov: No
Tkachuk: No
Robertson: No (60 ahl games)
Rantanen: No (56 ahl games)
Peterson: No
Hughes: No
Marner: No
Point: Maybe (2 extra years in junior?)
Stutzkle: No
Nylander: Maybe?
Crosby: No
Zibanejad: No

 

[DAChampion]

All this talk about slow cooking.

Can someone give examples of current good to great nhl players that have been slow cooked in the ahl?

Looking at top point leaders last year:
McDavid: No
Draisaitl: No
Pasternak: No
Kucherov: No
Tkachuk: No
Robertson: No (60 ahl games)
Rantanen: No (56 ahl games)
Peterson: No
Hughes: No
Marner: No
Point: Maybe (2 extra years in junior?)
Stutzkle: No
Nylander: Maybe?
Crosby: No
Zibanejad: No

Great European players, like Slafkovsky is supposed to be, typically develop in Europe. So in your comparison, Slaf should have stayed in Finland.

 

[Habs]

obviously Habs feel he’s got makings of top pairing Dman…


And the benefit of being in the ultimate geographical locale in NHL - no state tax and cheap luxury cost of living

But Kent said he's a 2nd pairing dman at the draft...

 

[cave troll]

Kent said he's ceiling is 2D and that he's not gonna run a first PP in NHL.

 

[salbutera]

But Kent said he's a 2nd pairing dman at the draft...

Hughes actually said:

https://www.com/tiekv1004/status/1674522028982902786?s=46&t=a3HPp5YfHU2XDo78oSJMFA

Kent said he's ceiling is 2D and that he's not gonna run a first PP in NHL.

D2 as in #2 Dman

 

[26Mats]

Kent said he's ceiling is 2D and that he's not gonna run a first PP in NHL.

But Kent said he's a 2nd pairing dman at the draft...

I think by D2 he meant #2 dman.

A number 2 dman is two way dman without elite offense, imo. Or a really good offensive dman with defensive holes. Reinbacher pre-draft projected to be the former.

A number 2 usually leads a second pair to balance things out, but will be played on the top pair in the most crucial game situations.

 

[salbutera]

Also keep in mind the GM is trying to manage expectations… under commit / over deliver

 

[themilosh]

If the ceiling for Michkov is Zucs, then no one is mad we passed on him brother.

thats why I was happy with what we did.

 

[Andy]

Great European players, like Slafkovsky is supposed to be, typically develop in Europe. So in your comparison, Slaf should have stayed in Finland.

Examples of current euro nhlers developing abroad? And can we define the timeline of "develop" is it one season, two seasons, three?

 

[NotProkofievian]

Examples of current euro nhlers developing abroad? And can we define the timeline of "develop" is it one season, two seasons, three?

Elias Pettersson, Sebastian Aho, Miro Heiskanen are 3 recent examples.

 

[417]

Your logic is flawed because if a player is not good enough to be great in the Ahl in what world does promoting him to a tougher league will help him develop or help the team?

Well that's kind of my point. You clearly didn't follow the flow of this debate.

Even if the team wanted they dont have 60 roster spot to give nhl games to below .7ppg ahl forward and average ahl dman. Injuries are the only reason that a lot of these guy get nhl games to prove their worth and if they dont prove anything its normal they go back to the ahl. By your logic John Mysak should be called soon or he is doomed despite him showing that even the nhl is to much for him? Plekanec would have spent 2 years in the ahl if not for the lock-out you really think he should have been called up after his 40 points ahl season as a 3rd rounder?

Sigh...

 

[Andy]

Elias Pettersson, Sebastian Aho, Miro Heiskanen are 3 recent examples.

Pettersson played 44 games in Europe after his draft year
Aho played 45 games in Europe
Heiskanen 30 games in Europe.

Is this really the difference? Is this really slow cooking?

 

[417]

Chipchura was a very good prospect until his skating declined due to the injury.

He took a long time to make it because he was no longer a good player, at the time some fans felt he was blocking Lapierre.

But using a lot of people's logic here...all of that time spent in the AHL should have propelled him to more success in the NHL.

Like someone argued it did for Pacioretty.

 

[LaP]

Elias Pettersson, Sebastian Aho, Miro Heiskanen are 3 recent examples.

They all played one year in Europe after being drafted and then graduated in the NHL. Not sure how much of a difference it makes if it makes any.

 

[26Mats]

Examples of current euro nhlers developing abroad? And can we define the timeline of "develop" is it one season, two seasons, three?

Elias Pettersson, Sebastian Aho, Miro Heiskanen are 3 recent examples.

Kaprisov, Ovechkin, Malkin, Kuznetsov.

And by the way, Michkov is outscoring Ovechkin and Malkin in their D+1 seasons in the KHL.

 

[LaP]

But using a lot of people's logic here...all of that time spent in the AHL should have propelled him to more success in the NHL.

Like someone argued it did for Pacioretty.

Patch played 87 games total in the AHL including playoffs. Not sure i'd consider that a lot of time. I've argued for a while now that more than one season (in total games played) in the AHL is a waste of time for a good player. Most good players in the NHL spent less than 100 games total in the AHL or European pro league after being drafted. Yet it's still a myth on this board that the only way to develop a player is to let him cook in the AHL for 300 games. And i'm barely exaggerating here. The main obstacle for develop will always remain a lack of patience and not where a player play.

 

[NotProkofievian]

Pettersson played 44 games in Europe after his draft year
Aho played 45 games in Europe
Heiskanen 30 games in Europe.

Is this really the difference? Is this really slow cooking?

Oh okay, these examples don't count because reasons. How many games would count in your opinion so I can do your research for you?

 

[417]

not one. No way was Chipchura slow cooked when he had a major injury in his draft year and then that the achillies injury that slowed him down even more.

Again, i'm not going to debate the semantics behind the expression "slow cooked", but he played 205 AHL games before becoming a full fledged NHL player.

Call it whatever you want if you don't like that expression, if you prefer.

You put DLR on the list when he was in the NHL at 19 when he should have been in the OHL. What a joke, how in the world can you honestly think that DLR was slow cook when he was clearly rushed. I could go on and on and on for each one.

DLR played 33 games as a 19 year old and another 37 games in the AHL.

Why do you think players are so fragile that it's those 33 games in the NHL that set the path for the rest of his career?

The list is a complete joke and a waste of time.

You asked for it and furthermore, no one is forcing you to read it.

Additionally, no clue why you're so hostile. This subject gets you so wound up lol it's cute though.

If there's one player i can think of that was slow cooked in the last 20 years, it would be Pleks and that worked out well

Funny...

Total AHL games played

Chipchura - 205
Plekanec - 233

But previously you said Chipchura wasn't, but Plekanec was...a whole 28 games is the difference here?

Might be time to step into this decade...teams aren't putting guys in the AHL for 3 freaking years anymore.

 

[Andy]

Oh okay, these examples don't count because reasons. How many games would count in your opinion so I can do your research for you?

I didn't say it doesn't count. Im asking you guys to define slow cooking and the timeline it takes to develop in another league.

40 games in one year doesnt seem like much to me at all. No one has done a good job to convince.

 

[417]

Patch played 87 games total in the AHL including playoffs. Not sure i'd consider that a lot of time. I've argued for a while now that more than one season (in total games played) in the AHL is a waste of time for a good player.

You're misreading my tone. I don't actually think that, I encourage you to go back and read the exchange I was having,

We agree 100% here.

Most good players in the NHL spent less than 100 games total in the AHL or European pro league after being drafted. Yet it's still a myth on this board that the only way to develop a player is to let him cook in the AHL for 300 games. And i'm barely exaggerating here. The main obstacle for develop will always remain a lack of patience and not where a player play.

See post above...

@montreal is in his feels for some reason because i'm arguing just that and he's a big proponent of letting guys cook in the AHL for 230+ games.

He's not capable of having a civil discussion about it either. Odd...

 

[417]

All this talk about slow cooking.

Can someone give examples of current good to great nhl players that have been slow cooked in the ahl?

Looking at top point leaders last year:
McDavid: No
Draisaitl: No
Pasternak: No
Kucherov: No
Tkachuk: No
Robertson: No (60 ahl games)
Rantanen: No (56 ahl games)
Peterson: No
Hughes: No
Marner: No
Point: Maybe (2 extra years in junior?)
Stutzkle: No
Nylander: Maybe?
Crosby: No
Zibanejad: No

Some people are still stuck in a long gone era where teams used to leave players in the minors for 3-4 years.

No teams do that these days other than for goalies.

The Tomas Plekanec type of development (which let's also remember was also influenced by a lockout) doesn't happen anymore

 

[DAChampion]

But using a lot of people's logic here...all of that time spent in the AHL should have propelled him to more success in the NHL.

No. Nobody suggested anything like that.