2023-24 Senators Prospect Watch

[BigRig4]

The Hitmen play tonight at 9pm EST I believe. I’m gonna try to tune in.

 

[OD99]

Frozen 4
National semifinals, April 10
Western Michigan vs. Denver, 5 p.m., ESPN2
Boston University vs. Penn State, 8:30 p.m., ESPN2

National championship game, April 12
Semifinal winners, 7:30 p.m., ESPN2

Buium and Denver look to repeat

All those games are on TSN2 as well, for those that have it.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Nordberg was terrible. I’m not in agreement that Elliason was a bad pick. Extremely young and raw.

Nordberg was just as raw. And could skate.

Well I think in 2 years we will know if he was a bad pick.

I don’t think we always have to wait to see what they are in the NHL to know what’s what

 

[Senator Stanley]

People confuse toughness with toughness that can actually play (like Brady). They’re called unicorns for a reason. Most of the Ben Roger clones we keep drafting will end up as pretty much wasted picks. Their ceilings are guys you can pick up on day 75 of free agency.

It’s such a dumb draft strategy. Who is actually succeeding using the same draft criteria we are?

We missed out on talent like Stankoven because we spent the entire 2021 draft focusing on career AHLers. We just drafted Gabriel Eliasson over Cole Hutson even though we have Kleven and Andonovski.

Not to beat a dead horse, but...

Was Ben Roger tough? You would think that surely he must have been, given he didn't bring much else, but I don't remember him being particularly tough or physical either. He mostly just looked tall and played with a right handed stick.

 

[Masked]

How many d men had 107 points in junior that weren’t at least good nhl players. Modern day most seem to be quite good

In the OHL, Jamie Rivers and Bruce Cassidy weren't great NHL players.

I'm curious about the dmen in junior who put up 107 points or more and were good NHL players. Can you name them for me?

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Andonovski, Ostapchuk, Yakemchuk, Halliday and others are good at their levels. But that doesn't mean they'll necessarily be good NHL players. Again, you can't see anything right now.

Of course you can.

Ostapchuk right now is a decent young center who’s still improving with a high motor and good physicality.

Halliday is a good AHL player. That’s a decent pick. I can confidently say that Halliday was a decent pick.

 

[GCK]

In the OHL, Jamie Rivers and Bruce Cassidy weren't great NHL players.

I'm curious about the dmen in junior who put up 107 points or more and were good NHL players. Can you name them for me?

Cassidy was pure injury. He would have been a hell of a pro. Better examples are Fogerty and Slaney.

 

[Hun]

Of course you can.

Ostapchuk right now is a decent young center who’s still improving with a high motor and good physicality.

Halliday is a good AHL player. That’s a decent pick. I can confidently say that Halliday was a decent pick.

None of them are guaranteed NHL players.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

None of them are guaranteed NHL players.

Ostapchuk has already received NHL callups and performances decently well in his role.

Halliday has gotten reps with the team in practice. Not every player is going to be an NHL stud.

Ostapchuk is kinda all we have to show and you’re like he’s not that good.

He might legit be the best forward we have drafted in nearly half a decade

 

[BondraTime]

Not to beat a dead horse, but...

Was Ben Roger tough? You would think that surely he must have been, given he didn't bring much else, but I don't remember him being particularly tough or physical either. He mostly just looked tall and played with a right handed stick.

He wasn't tough whatsoever.

The Sens would rather draft a bad player with great tools who they hope somehow develops than draft than someone who is a good player already without the pro tools they like (size, basically)

They draft with the hope of future development. Big, tall, rangey guys who aren't that great right now that they hope something clicks down the road. Moore, Elliasson, Elinas and Montgomery are all those kind of guys.

We are so down bad for prospects doing well after being drafted that Montgomery at 19 almost hitting a PPG on the highest scoring CHL team in the entire 3 leagues is seen as a huge win.

If they had their choice right now on a do-over between Gabriel Eliasson and Thomas Lavoie, they would still take Eliasson because they would rather have a hope and a prayer that he can somehow develop into a good 6'7 hockey player rather than take the guy that's already a good player.

 

[Hun]

Ostapchuk has already received NHL callups and performances decently well in his role.

Halliday has gotten reps with the team in practice. Not every player is going to be an NHL stud.

Ostapchuk is kinda all we have to show and you’re like he’s not that good.

He might legit be the best forward we have drafted in nearly half a decade

They may all be good players. Or they may not be.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Is Yakemchuk the strongest defensive defenceman of his draft year?

IMO he is not. I think it was a weakness in his draft year which he attempted to address this year. I think the results are mixed.
Silayev to me was the strongest defensive defenceman at the top of the draft last year
followed by
Levshunov/Buium/Dickinson in some order but I think they were all close
I think its safe to say they all improved some including Yakemchuk and Parekh

 

[BondraTime]

Is Yakemchuk the strongest defensive defenceman of his draft year?

Closer to weakest defensively than the strongest

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Is Yakemchuk the strongest defensive defenceman of his draft year?

Less than 365 days ago his biggest weakness were his skating and his defensive play lol

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Less than 365 days ago his biggest weakness were his skating and his defensive play lol

His IQ / decision making was questioned a fair bit as well.

 

[PlayOn]

He wasn't tough whatsoever.

The Sens would rather draft a bad player with great tools who they hope somehow develops than draft than someone who is a good player already without the pro tools they like (size, basically)

They draft with the hope of future development. Big, tall, rangey guys who aren't that great right now that they hope something clicks down the road. Moore, Elliasson, Elinas and Montgomery are all those kind of guys.

We are so down bad for prospects doing well after being drafted that Montgomery at 19 almost hitting a PPG on the highest scoring CHL team in the entire 3 leagues is seen as a huge win.

If they had their choice right now on a do-over between Gabriel Eliasson and Thomas Lavoie, they would still take Eliasson because they would rather have a hope and a prayer that he can somehow develop into a good 6'7 hockey player rather than take the guy that's already a good player.

Yeah, this is my biggest issue with Ottawa’s drafting.

I have no issue with the idea of drafting big players that you hope have a huge development curve as they age. It can work out really well sometimes.

I am just not sure why this is basically 98% of every pick they make. It’d be nice if they expanded their horizons a bit. In fairness when they do, they aren’t really all that good at it - so maybe that’s where they need to make some changes.

You’d like to at least have hope that if Nikita Kucherov is available in the 2nd round, the Sens would consider taking him.

 

[Bileur]

I get that everyone is down on Yak after this season but let’s not forget that many parts of his game, including his weaknesses pretty much looked NHL ready in the preseason.

He’s also a giant, which always takes longer to develop, and apparently his fitness wasn’t NHL calibre. He’s got a lot of runway.

 

[BondraTime]

Yeah, this is my biggest issue with Ottawa’s drafting.

I have no issue with the idea of drafting big players that you hope have a huge development curve as they age. It can work out really well sometimes.

I am just not sure why this is basically 98% of every pick they make. It’d be nice if they expanded their horizons a bit. In fairness when they do, they aren’t really all that good at it - so maybe that’s where they need to make some changes.

You’d like to at least have hope that if Nikita Kucherov is available in the 2nd round, the Sens would consider taking him.

They have had very little success drafting skill in a while.

Batherson, Chabot and Stone are really the only guys that weren't gimmie picks who have become good skilled players in the NHL in the past 15 drafts. Grieg is a good pick, but wouldn't call him a skilled player

Zib - 6th
Tkachuk -4th
Stu - 3rd
Sanderson - 5th

Those were gimmies

Gagne, Chlapik, Jarventie, Prince, Dahlen, Tychonik, Sokolov. They haven't had success with skilled guys in the 2nd. It's the Pinto's, Ostapchuks, Fromenton's, Kleven's they have hit on.

They desperately, desperately need some new blood in the scouting room, and a new head. They are being run by 3 guys in their 70's/late 60's who have been with the Sens for 70 years combined.

Fargher has been with the Sens since 97', Janecyk since 99', and Boyd's first year with the Sens was 95'

They guys they have onboarded are first time NHL scouts, which is perfectly fine, you need to start somewhere. Gordon, Strumm Jr., De Blois, Boeser, Flanagan, Stirling are all guys who Ottawa grabbed after their retirements/out of their junioir leagues as first time NHL scouts.

They need to poach some guys from the league, who have been successful in their organizations. 40-50 years old, looking at an opportunity to jump into a greater role as a head of scouting, let him bring in 1/2 guys, let him alter the Sens drafting tendancies which have become comical, Orouborus literally called 3/4 of the guys who we were going to pick this past draft based on our tendancies alone, that shouldn't be something that can happen past the top picks early in the draft.

 

[PlayOn]

They have had very little success drafting skill in a while.

Batherson, Chabot and Stone are really the only guys that weren't gimmie picks who have become good skilled players in the NHL in the past 15 drafts. Grieg is a good pick, but wouldn't call him a skilled player

Zib - 6th
Tkachuk -4th
Stu - 3rd
Sanderson - 5th

Those were gimmies

Gagne, Chlapik, Jarventie, Prince, Dahlen, Tychonik, Sokolov. They haven't had success with skilled guys in the 2nd. It's the Pinto's, Ostapchuks, Fromenton's, Kleven's they have hit on.

They desperately, desperately need some new blood in the scouting room, and a new head. They are being run by 3 guys in their 70's/late 60's who have been with the Sens for 70 years combined.

Fargher has been with the Sens since 97', Janecyk since 99', and Boyd's first year with the Sens was 95'

They guys they have onboarded are first time NHL scouts, which is perfectly fine, you need to start somewhere. Gordon, Strumm Jr., De Blois, Boeser, Flanagan, Stirling are all guys who Ottawa grabbed after their retirements/out of their junioir leagues as first time NHL scouts.

They need to poach some guys from the league, who have been successful in their organizations. 40-50 years old, looking at an opportunity to jump into a greater role as a head of scouting, let him bring in 1/2 guys, let him alter the Sens drafting tendancies which have become comical, Orouborus literally called 3/4 of the guys who we were going to pick this past draft based on our tendancies alone, that shouldn't be something that can happen past the top picks early in the draft.

It’s a scary list when you look at it.

They should also try to get former skilled players to help with their scouting. It seems a lot of teams have that, like St. Louis with Keith Tkachuk or even Heatley working with the Flyers (although he works on the pro side of things).

Maybe they can get Giroux into amateur scouting when he retires.

 

[BondraTime]

It’s a scary list when you look at it.

They should also try to get former skilled players to help with their scouting. It seems a lot of teams have that, like St. Louis with Keith Tkachuk or even Heatley working with the Flyers (although he works on the pro side of things).

Maybe they can get Giroux into amateur scouting when he retires.

They’ve added 2 former players in the past few years in Kyle Flanagan and Andrew Gorden, neither was a skill guy obviously

They just need to revamp their scouting checklists. Some things they haven’t valued need to be valued much more and some things they value very highly need to be devalued immensely.

There needs to be a serious revamping, same way we revamped the Pro side with DiMiao. They fact we have had not a single addition, nor subtraction, since we got new ownership and a new GM is bizarre.

 

[PlayOn]

They’ve added 2 former players in the past few years in Kyle Flanagan and Andrew Gorden, neither was a skill guy obviously

They just need to revamp their scouting checklists. Some things they haven’t valued need to be valued much more and some things they value very highly need to be devalued immensely.

There needs to be a serious revamping, same way we revamped the Pro side with DiMiao. They fact we have had not a single addition, nor subtraction, since we got new ownership and a new GM is bizarre.

I doubt they plan on keeping Boyd as the head scout long-term so I am assuming either Staios has a guy in mind that he couldn’t get immediately or just didn’t have the time to put in the proper search last season with everything else going on.

If we forfeit this year’s pick, this draft is pretty much a write-off anyway. So maybe we’ll see changes this summer heading into next year where we have a lot more picks.

 

[SlapJack]

Cassidy was pure injury. He would have been a hell of a pro. Better examples are Fogerty and Slaney.

Fogerty had serious issues with alcoholism, he could've been a great player but never slayed that demon. I remember reading how guys said he was the most talented player on the team with booze on his breath. This was the Nordiques when they had Joe Sakic and Mats Sundin

 

[Hale The Villain]

There's no chance the current iteration of our scouting staff would have considered drafting Karlsson in 2008, and that needs to be said really.

If Staios doesn't make changes to the staff we'll continue to pass up skill and smarts for size and toughness, which historically has been an absolutely terrible strategy whenever it's been implemented.

I've been a huge fan of Staios' work thus far, but not changing up the scouting staff, like Murray did back in 2008 when he took over as GM, will cost this team dearly.

 

[Senator Stanley]

I doubt they plan on keeping Boyd as the head scout long-term so I am assuming either Staios has a guy in mind that he couldn’t get immediately or just didn’t have the time to put in the proper search last season with everything else going on.

If we forfeit this year’s pick, this draft is pretty much a write-off anyway. So maybe we’ll see changes this summer heading into next year where we have a lot more picks.

I'm choosing to believe in your theory that Staois has a target who he's waiting to become available this offseason, and is comfortable waiting because they're punting on the 2025 draft anyway.

 

[BigRig4]

I doubt they plan on keeping Boyd as the head scout long-term so I am assuming either Staios has a guy in mind that he couldn’t get immediately or just didn’t have the time to put in the proper search last season with everything else going on.

If we forfeit this year’s pick, this draft is pretty much a write-off anyway. So maybe we’ll see changes this summer heading into next year where we have a lot more picks.

I could have sworn I remembered hearing that Boyd was a one year placeholder (at least in the head role). I’ll try to figure out where I saw that.