oh, simply because I don't perceive the Ottawa Senators as a young team anymore, they're probably right there in the middle as of now and will start getting older than the average team soon (18th oldest this seasons using EP)
I still believe in Stutzle as he's still just 23 y/o but next season will also be his 6th season. MacKinnon started almost a year younger and broke out in his 5th season. Sanderson is 22 and it will be his 4th season but we can still expect progression. Greig will also continue to progress but what do you expect? I don't see more than an elite 3rd liner. Same with Pinto who will be 25 y/o. As for Kleven, what do we expect? I don't see any offensive potential, do you expect a Top-4 guy?
The concerns were raised years ago while some were just salivating at this team's potential. The reality is we couldn't afford to have Pierre Dorion as a GM much longer but it happened and the results are that today, there's limited internal progression potential. The progression has to come from other ways, i.e. mostly Staios work (and Alfie knows how much they have to revamp the drafting dept)
I will summarize the age and progression issue by saying that I don't think you are giving enough respect to the mental part of the game. You are analyzing physical talent and drawing a ceiling to the team's progression based on that. But the maturation process doesn't stop at the physical, the mental aspects keep growing and players, over time,
learn to win. This is what we are witnessing this year and, imo, is what we will continue to witness in the coming years en route to this team being a true contender.
I'm not going to sit here and argue whether Ridley will be a 50 pt player or a 60 pt player because it is mostly inconsequential. Vegas when they won the cup didn't have a single PPG player, Marchesault won the Conn Smyth coming off a 60 pt season, which is about what we expect from future Shane Pinto. That team rose above and it was not based merely on physical talent.
When we talk about progression you need to factor how this team is going to improve mentally. And even though I believe there is also a lot of room for physical growth (bonus), I care more that Greig for example appears to have the stuff between the ears that teams need to win- third line, second line I don't care. Or that Kleven can be the type of second pair stalwart that you absolutely have to have to go deep (Nicolas Hague type?). And that Brady might not be a 100 pt player but he is one hell of a captain that can drag his team along. I could go on. Literally, the only player on the roster that I wouldn't boast about elevating his game in the coming years is Chabot, because I think we are witnessing peak Chabot. I think everyone else in the core can hit another gear, largely because of how they are going to mature mentally.
This team has enough ingredients and if you don't think they are bound to progress its because, imo, you are underestimating how the mental part of the game takes over from the physical in a players (and teams) evolution. The sum becomes much greater than the whole, that's how this team gets better.
I was super excited for this team after the 2020 draft, even claiming on the mainboards that this team had the best future in the league, arguing with some ferocious Devils and Wings fans. But then I saw Dorion work as another phase of the rebuild started and how he spent the money available. I thought that maybe we were still tanking but lol we picked Tyler freaking Boucher with the 10th overall pick so it was confirmed that Dorion had no idea what he was doing (which frankly, started with the Zibanejad trade). And then we bled for 3 more years...
How about we just not bring Dorion's name up for once? Yes, he got in his own way but I want to talk about the team now, not the hypothetical team we didn't build. Would Cole Sillinger really be the difference maker right now? (Don't answer that question).
I don't know what the point is of continusouly looking back and beating that dead horse. We are in a perfectly fine spot right now. Look at all the other teams that stagnated during the same period? To be a NJ fan right now would be downright terrifying. From LA to Buffalo we are one of a dozen teams that evidently tripped on their rebuild. Or did we?
While some pansies on this board call me a Habs fan because I was among the firsts to realize that their future outlook was trending very well (and it's materializing now even though I thought it'd be more next season), there's some people on this planet who are able to call a cat a cat. Sorry if I can. Most of my "crazy takes" happen in the real world.
Oduya was an even better skater but he still hit a wall at 35 y/o. We don't know when it's going to happen for Jensen but one thing certain is that he doesn't have many years in front of him, he's a stop gap.
You think 8 M$ for Giroux and Zetterlund is inflated? 3 M$ for both Kleven and Matinpalo, inflated?
yes, saving 1-2M on those 4 players combined is definitely possible, depending on term.
I know there is no "cap concerns" as we can fill the rest of the lineup for cheap, but the POINT was that there's no cap space to sign a Sam Bennett for example (well, if that was possible) or maybe if we let go Giroux like I mentioned.
lol "mountain out of a molehill"... This is what I said :
"No choice to give it away this year… and yes we could easily regress next season. All of Giroux, Perron and Jensen will be older, we have no cap space and no prospect pool"
I stand by my point. Giroux, Perron and Jensen's potential regression is not to be feared as much as you're making it out. If Giroux is going to be that bad than why do you have him making $4.5M? SS is not dumb, he could be as low as 3 and parked on the third line and might train differently this off season and actually play just fine. Won't argue Jensen with you, I just don't fear it the same way you do because I think he is efficient enough to still be fine next year. For the record, you hated the Jensen pick up and he's proving you wrong. I don't think it's entirely honest to just repeat the same thing one year later until it's right.
I was replying to a poster who said "we're nowhere near a guarantee to make the playoffs next year". All I said is pure cold straight facts...
- All of Giroux, Perron and Jensen will be older : true or not?
True, but not a huge deal. If Stutzle, our top line C whom we have built around woke up and was 36 next year then I would definitely be concerned. We know what we have in Giroux, we can mitigate the impacts.
- We have no cap space : as I just explained to IMPROVE the team, true or not?
Not. We could easily save upwards of $2M on your numbers, or even to 4 or 5 if we also choose not to sign Claude. Teams have done a lot better with a lot less. We are also achieving the coaching system status where it is much easier to plug players in a get a lot out of them, as evidenced by multiple performers this year. Would be nice to have the option to slide Jensen to third pair and get an upgrade but we might not have
that level of flexibility, I will concede that. But I think we can find a serviceable top 6 upgrade with some good fortune and shuffling, assuming it isn't Zetterlund.
- We have no prospect pool : true or not?
Personally, my hopes rest almost entirely on the shoulders of Staios and what moves he will continue to pull. And then on Stutzle and Sanderson and how impactful they can become.
Zero prospect pool, however again, players evolve and don't exist in a vacuum. Crookshank could be a third liner, Halliday could be a top 6, Sebrango could be a #7, Montgomery could make the team out of camp, Yak could too. All things I am not necessarily holding my breath on so youre right. Good think we have most if not all the pieces in place and good thing teams like Vegas, Toronto, TB, Colorado, Edmonton, Boston have all proven you can reach contender status while ignoring drafting almost altogether once a core is in place.
