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2023-24 Senators Prospect Watch

Micklebot said:
It's a lot easier to get guys to dial back the aggression than it is to introduce it to a guy's game that doesn't naturally play on the edge.
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He will be right there for crosschecks/60 league leaders. It was an undisciplined play last night but .. he has that in him. He will have to tone it down or have to answer the bell next year. It should be fun to watch him make the transition.
 
Kleven has gotten better as the season has gone on & he has played in most games this yr except for that concussion fighting Lowery which was a mistake. We can also see he has a little more offence to his game than we think & as he gets more experience & confidence & stronger he will be a force for Ottawa on defence. Hopefully, he catches Mathews with a big hit, we need our defence to play well in this series & not make dumb mistakes.
 
Burrowsaurus said:
I’ve seen game 1 on the playoffs. Two games ago. And half of 3 games ago.

Has he been particularly violent? Or feisty?
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He’s always going to be feisty. He battles in front of the net and lets the forwards know he’s there after almost every whistle. He hasn’t been violent, but he’s making it harder to play for the skill guys, they know they are going to get leaned on and cross checked.

He’s finishing all his hits, though he hasn’t had any K-Train type monsters. He’s playing the body, but not physically overwhelming anyone.

He’s playing a disciplined physical role, not getting caught up in extracurriculars that are penalizing Calgary. I missed yesterdays game and won’t be watching it in all likelihood, but it seems he may have taken his 1st unnecessary penalty last night judging from comments.
 
Sens of Anarchy said:
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This is a simpleton take. More players are passed up and rightfully so than passed up and wrong. Easy to say, hard to do.

Take Josh Ho Sang, he slid to late first, does NYI look particularly smart for being the one to take him? Conversely, let's see if Vegas looks smart for taking Trevor Connelly a bit early. Sean Couturier slid a couple spots and WPG let him slide further by taking Scheiffle ahead of where he was projected... Were they wrong for 'following the crowd.'

Bottom line, which armchair pundits refuse to acknowledge, is that scouting is difficult and when players slide you can't just say its because a bunch of teams are being sheep and 'following the crowd.' More often than not there's something to the consensus opinion.
 
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PlayersLtd said:
This is a simpleton take. More players are passed up and rightfully so than passed up and wrong. Easy to say, hard to do.

Take Josh Ho Sang, he slid to late first, does NYI look particularly smart for being the one to take him? Conversely, let's see if Vegas looks smart for taking Trevor Connelly a bit early. Sean Couturier slid a couple spots and WPG let him slide further by taking Scheiffle ahead of where he was projected... Were they wrong for 'following the crowd.'

Bottom line, which armchair pundits refuse to acknowledge, is that scouting is difficult and when players slide you can't just say its because a bunch of teams are being sheep and 'following the crowd.' More often than not there's something to the consensus opinion.
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I think in a who you know business such as scouting/sports in general returns will always not be as good as they could be if it was a pure meritocracy.
 
PlayersLtd said:
This is a simpleton take. More players are passed up and rightfully so than passed up and wrong. Easy to say, hard to do.

Take Josh Ho Sang, he slid to late first, does NYI look particularly smart for being the one to take him? Conversely, let's see if Vegas looks smart for taking Trevor Connelly a bit early. Sean Couturier slid a couple spots and WPG let him slide further by taking Scheiffle ahead of where he was projected... Were they wrong for 'following the crowd.'

Bottom line, which armchair pundits refuse to acknowledge, is that scouting is difficult and when players slide you can't just say its because a bunch of teams are being sheep and 'following the crowd.' More often than not there's something to the consensus opinion.
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sure there are particular examples and many of them.. I think the point is that we ... hear stuff like.. Why didn't the Sens take Knies and the rebuttal..many teams passed on Knies as the explanation. So I guess what Jimmy is saying is the explanation is hollow.

Simpleton.. well I guess for the brainiacs in the crowd sure. I would not call Jimmy a simpleton.. but I guess you can tell me what that means

Getting pretty high on your horse lately.
 
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PlayersLtd said:
This is a simpleton take. More players are passed up and rightfully so than passed up and wrong. Easy to say, hard to do.

Take Josh Ho Sang, he slid to late first, does NYI look particularly smart for being the one to take him? Conversely, let's see if Vegas looks smart for taking Trevor Connelly a bit early. Sean Couturier slid a couple spots and WPG let him slide further by taking Scheiffle ahead of where he was projected... Were they wrong for 'following the crowd.'

Bottom line, which armchair pundits refuse to acknowledge, is that scouting is difficult and when players slide you can't just say its because a bunch of teams are being sheep and 'following the crowd.' More often than not there's something to the consensus opinion.
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Exactly. And in most cases where the excuse is that many teams passed on a guy, it's generally used when there's a substantial number of teams doing so. Like if you're talking about how you should've drafted somebody picked 20 spots later when the team that eventually picked that player had another pick in those 20 spots that ended up busting, even the geniuses that drafted him passed on him and were wrong.
 
PlayersLtd said:
This is a simpleton take. More players are passed up and rightfully so than passed up and wrong. Easy to say, hard to do.

Take Josh Ho Sang, he slid to late first, does NYI look particularly smart for being the one to take him? Conversely, let's see if Vegas looks smart for taking Trevor Connelly a bit early. Sean Couturier slid a couple spots and WPG let him slide further by taking Scheiffle ahead of where he was projected... Were they wrong for 'following the crowd.'

Bottom line, which armchair pundits refuse to acknowledge, is that scouting is difficult and when players slide you can't just say it’s because a bunch of teams are being sheep and 'following the crowd.' More often than not there's something to the consensus opinion.
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I don’t think he was implying that teams are sheep following the crowd. I think he’s saying that when you make a great pick, it is almost always at the expense of another team’s mistake (or a few of them), and that is what makes scouting what it is.

So it is sort of an understood part of any great pick, and I can’t disagree it is kind of a pointless argument. I think it’s more interesting to assess why scouts didn’t like that particular player and that could differ from team to team. I am sure in some cases teams don’t like the player themselves, in others they might not like the person, in others they might love the player but love the guy they took slightly more etc. All of those things create for more interesting discussions than “well x number of teams made the same mistake”. Okay great, so then the better discussion is why as opposed to using it to justify the decision. Some teams likely have better and more valid reasons than others, so it doesn’t matter much if 2 teams passed or 10 passed if you don’t really know the reasons.
 
Burrowsaurus said:
I think sports is likely the most guilty of this. But yeah you’re right to a degree. That doesn’t really change what I said
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It’s not really guilty, it’s just one of those types of jobs. It’s still a meritocracy as we see scouts and executives get fired all the time for poor performance. The NHL is a performances based business after all at its core.

I think some people just really believe that they could do a better job from their couch. As though trades and drafts are simple one-way decisions.

The problem is that scouting is not something that is easily taught to outsiders. It’s more of a mentorship job that requires experience, trust, and being around players and watching them evolve over the years to be able to identify potential markers.

This isn’t something you can take uni classes on and walk into a job for.

So naturally guys who get into scouting are guys who have been mentored by established scouts, have been around hockey players for years, and even then you have to display an aptitude for the position. As in your gut feelings have to pan out.

This means that the vast majority of the guys will be ex players.
 
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