GDT: 2023-24 season Game 3 LA Kings vs Winnipeg Jets @5:00pm 10/17/23

[Nasti]

Did you know that Winnipeg isn't in the United States, where HIPAA is used?

Canada has their own standards.

Yes, and do you think Canada is less regulated than the US? Like you said, they have their own standards, which are usually more strict.

 

[Chazz Reinhold]

The healthcare providers work for the team, but they're still healthcare providers. HIPAA gives agency to the patient on what is and isn't shared

Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996 (HIPAA) | CDC

HIPAA is a federal law that requires the creation of national standards to protect sensitive patient health information from being disclosed.

www.cdc.gov

HIPPA just doesn't apply to professional sports franchises. For example: Do HIPAA Laws Apply to Athletes?

Under normal circumstances, physicians and healthcare workers could not release someone’s medical information unless authorized by the patient or required by a public health authority. That’s why the first thing your doctor asks new patients to do is to sign is a HIPAA consent form. That allows your doctor the freedom to disclose your health information to others in order to effect treatment.

Such regulations do not apply to team physicians or trainers employed by an organization or franchise. These medical officials are not subject to HIPAA, but to their employer.

“Usually the team physician is not covered by HIPAA as it relates to the team,” said Lynn Sessions, a partner at BakerHostetler and a healthcare privacy law expert for more than 25 years. “That would essentially be within an employment context that the team physician is providing care to the player, so as it relates to the employer that is a different kind of relationship.”

Athletes though, agree to share health information with their employer (even if the athlete visits an independent medical professional) when they sign a contract with a team. The reason we know so much about these athletes’ injuries on any given day is that once the information is provided to the organization through the athlete, or through the team physician, the organization is free to publicize it. Pro sports teams are not covered entities under HIPAA. Rather, they are merely considered employers.

From what I understand, the NHL doesnt mandate explaining injuries unlike other leagues.. so each team is free to do as much or as little as they want. The NFL mandates it... which some say was put in place for gamblers to have better info for betting... I dont think it has anything do with HIPAA.

Exactly.

 

[funky]

Yes, and do you think Canada is less regulated than the US? Like you said, they have their own standards, which are usually more strict.

we do have HIPPA up here. It can be like pulling teeth to get any medical information up here even if you are Law Enforcement checking on a victim. Not sure if we have special rules excluding athletes but that would be very surprising. There has been cases where Medical professionals have lost jobs for disclosing patient records without the proper authority.

 

[King'sPawn]

Yes, and do you think Canada is less regulated than the US? Like you said, they have their own standards, which are usually more strict.

I don't know Canada's standards so I'm not going to guess how strict they are.

HIPPA just doesn't apply to professional sports franchises. For example: Do HIPAA Laws Apply to Athletes?

I provided a link stating otherwise - Handling HIPAA Rules In Sports: Why Athlete Privacy Matters - Health Works Collective

Even professional athletes and other related figures must authorize any publication or use of their medical records.

 

[Chazz Reinhold]

I don't know Canada's standards so I'm not going to guess how strict they are.

I provided a link stating otherwise - Handling HIPAA Rules In Sports: Why Athlete Privacy Matters - Health Works Collective

I read it. No idea who Jenna Cyprus is. Either way, it doesn't touch on the question at all of whether sports franchises are covered entities under HIPPA; at most, it highlights that athletes do have rights under HIPPA under certain circumstances. The example she cites about Jason Pierre-Paul is actually a good one to illustrate the distinction: Schefter obtained Pierre-Paul's medical chart directly from the hospital Pierre-Paul was taken to as a result of the freak accident (i.e., the doctors there were employed by the hospital, not by the New York Giants). The hospital was a covered entity under HIPPA, and giving the medical chart to Schefter violated Pierre-Paul's HIPPA rights.

 

[King'sPawn]

Permitted Uses and Disclosures
The law permits, but does not require, a covered entity to use and disclose PHI, without an individual’s authorization, for the following purposes or situations:

• Disclosure to the individual (if the information is required for access or accounting of disclosures, the entity MUST disclose to the individual)
• Treatment, payment, and healthcare operations
• Opportunity to agree or object to the disclosure of PHI
  • An entity can obtain informal permission by asking the individual outright, or by circumstances that clearly give the individual the opportunity to agree, acquiesce, or object
• Incident to an otherwise permitted use and disclosure
• Limited dataset for research, public health, or healthcare operations
• Public interest and benefit activities—The Privacy Rule permits use and disclosure of PHI, without an individual’s authorization or permission, for 12 national priority purposes:

1. When required by law
2. Public health activities
3. Victims of abuse or neglect or domestic violence
4. Health oversight activities
5. Judicial and administrative proceedings
6. Law enforcement
7. Functions (such as identification) concerning deceased persons
8. Cadaveric organ, eye, or tissue donation
9. Research, under certain conditions
10. To prevent or lessen a serious threat to health or safety
11. Essential government functions
12. Workers’ compensation

Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996 (HIPAA) | CDC

HIPAA is a federal law that requires the creation of national standards to protect sensitive patient health information from being disclosed.

www.cdc.gov

Note it has no exception for sports teams releasing it to the public.

 

[Chazz Reinhold]

Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996 (HIPAA) | CDC

HIPAA is a federal law that requires the creation of national standards to protect sensitive patient health information from being disclosed.

www.cdc.gov

Note it has no exception for sports teams releasing it to the public.

It does not need an exception for a sports franchise because a sports franchise is not a covered entity under HIPPA.

Anyway, we've probably derailed this thread enough for something fairly small in the grand scheme of things here. I'll leave it at this point.

 

[Nasti]

I don't know Canada's standards so I'm not going to guess how strict they are.

I provided a link stating otherwise - Handling HIPAA Rules In Sports: Why Athlete Privacy Matters - Health Works Collective

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2022/05/09/nhl-injuries-gambling/#

”While other leagues maintain strict rules about disclosing injuries and punish noncompliant teams, NHL coaches still discuss injuries in only the vaguest terms, and the league has no mechanism that compels teams to reveal specifics.”

In other words, it ain’t HIPAA.

 

[King'sPawn]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2022/05/09/nhl-injuries-gambling/#

”While other leagues maintain strict rules about disclosing injuries and punish noncompliant teams, NHL coaches still discuss injuries in only the vaguest terms, and the league has no mechanism that compels teams to reveal specifics.”

In other words, it ain’t HIPAA.

It does not need an exception for a sports franchise because a sports franchise is not a covered entity under HIPPA.

Anyway, we've probably derailed this thread enough for something fairly small in the grand scheme of things here. I'll leave it at this point.

Okay. Learn something new. Spent 7 working with cardiologists and this exception never came up. Thanks for that.

The other reasoning for not disclosing it, which I've also mentioned in the past, is it's not our business. Feel free to let me know when you find links disproving that too.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Anybody else’s mind blown that the Jets not only disclosed the injury, but the timetable as well? No “lower body injury, day-to-day”. Has nothing to do with privacy like some have suggested.

YOu mean as opposed to

"Arvidsson just needed a little adjustment"
"Arvidsson is day to day"
"Arvidsson is out until 2027 getting an adamantium spine"

?

 

[Nasti]

Okay. Learn something new. Spent 7 working with cardiologists and this exception never came up. Thanks for that.

The other reasoning for not disclosing it, which I've also mentioned in the past, is it's not our business. Feel free to let me know when you find links disproving that too.

That is a separate discussion and can be debated. My only point was that this doesn’t have to do with that and is more about teams wanting to keep their opponents guessing. Of course, I can’t prove that that’s the reason but one only needs to go back to the 90’s when teams would disclose all year and then go silent during the playoffs. It was called “gamesmanship”.

 

[King'sPawn]

YOu mean as opposed to

"Arvidsson just needed a little adjustment"
"Arvidsson is day to day"
"Arvidsson is out until 2027 getting an adamantium spine"

?

I think it's shitty that Todd said that. None of us, as fans, benefit by understanding Arvidsson's exact injury or when he'll be back.

Is he practicing with the team? No? Okay, then he's probably going to be a while.

If a player or team WANTS to, because they know fans care about the player's well-being, awesome. Otherwise, we shouldn't expect the nature of their injury to be automatic.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I think it's shitty that Todd said that. None of us, as fans, benefit by understanding Arvidsson's exact injury or when he'll be back.

Is he practicing with the team? No? Okay, then he's probably going to be a while.

If a player or team WANTS to, because they know fans care about the player's well-being, awesome. Otherwise, we shouldn't expect the nature of their injury to be automatic.

Generally speaking I'm fine with that. I selfishly want to know every injury of course because I want to know if someone reinjured something or whatever, but I don't feel entitled to it.

But I f***ing LOATHE "Arvidsson left practice early but he's fine" to "haha jk loser he's out for at least most of the season" and this has hsppened with practically every injury to the extent where I made the joke about this onea nd it came true.

The dreaded Kings 'day to day' tag is the kiss of death

 

[Fishhead]

I could see if it's a knee or ankle, sometimes it takes a few days to figure it out due to swelling and so on.

But the back? Seems like it would be easy to figure out if it's long. Or maybe just some gamesmanship to throw off opponents planning.

 

[FSL KINGS]

I could see if it's a knee or ankle, sometimes it takes a few days to figure it out due to swelling and so on.

But the back? Seems like it would be easy to figure out if it's long. Or maybe just some gamesmanship to throw off opponents planning.

Just seeing if he could play with it or timing the recovery time for the playoffs.

 

[Nasti]

I actually think teams should at least reveal the length of the injury for the paying customer’s sake. If I’m paying a ticket to see the star power of another team, say Crosby and Malkin, I want to know if they’ll actually play in the game. I know sometimes they really don’t know if they’ll play, but there are a lot of instances where it’s just to throw everyone off.

 

[Esteban Tornado]

Deadspin | Do HIPAA Laws Apply to Athletes?

Deadspin | Do HIPAA Laws Apply to Athletes?

deadspin.com

This was an argument with somebody on LAKings Insider (real geniuses over there, but I digress)
Some guy condescendingly stated since they work in healthcare they know HIPAA, but medical staff are not employed by a public health authority, they are subject to their employer, ie franchise owner, so HIPAA doesn’t apply. The link explains the difference.

 

[Statto]

Generally speaking I'm fine with that. I selfishly want to know every injury of course because I want to know if someone reinjured something or whatever, but I don't feel entitled to it.

But I f***ing LOATHE "Arvidsson left practice early but he's fine" to "haha jk loser he's out for at least most of the season" and this has hsppened with practically every injury to the extent where I made the joke about this onea nd it came true.

The dreaded Kings 'day to day' tag is the kiss of death

I know it’s not the same because I don’t have the medical people around me but…

Day 1 - felt something moment in my back when training early before work. Finished training.
Day 2 - twinge in my back all day
Day 3 - pain in my sciatic nerve

MRI - disk has blown in my back… surgery etc. sciatic nerve still compressed.

My point being that lots of injuries can feel minor and end up a shit show. I genuinely didn’t give that initial tweak a second thought for the rest of the day. I finished my training, lifting significant weight with no problems at all - including squats in the 400 lbs range - I know that’s not exceptional but I’m saying that to make a point about how even bad injuries can be ‘hidden’ by how someone feels.

Todd’s initial ‘adjustment’ statement I’d wager was based on Arvi’s initial feedback that downplayed it. So, I suspect they genuinely didn’t feel it was that bad at first which usually will be based on player feedback on pain levels etc.

So what do we want? Honest feedback as we go or ‘No comment’ until every test is complete. Followed by no more than ‘week to week’.

Diagnostic science is not precise. It can take a lot of tests plus sooo much depends on patient feedback which is very, very subjective. I’d personally prefer the open conversation as much as possible but I certainly understand it when they won’t go into detail.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I know it’s not the same because I don’t have the medical people around me but…

Day 1 - felt something moment in my back when training early before work. Finished training.
Day 2 - twinge in my back all day
Day 3 - pain in my sciatic nerve

MRI - disk has blown in my back… surgery etc. sciatic nerve still compressed.

My point being that lots of injuries can feel minor and end up a shit show. I genuinely didn’t give that initial tweak a second thought for the rest of the day. I finished my training, lifting significant weight with no problems at all - including squats in the 400 lbs range - I know that’s not exceptional but I’m saying that to make a point about how even bad injuries can be ‘hidden’ by how someone feels.

Todd’s initial ‘adjustment’ statement I’d wager was based on Arvi’s initial feedback that downplayed it. So, I suspect they genuinely didn’t feel it was that bad at first which usually will be based on player feedback on pain levels etc.

So what do we want? Honest feedback as we go or ‘No comment’ until every test is complete. Followed by no more than ‘week to week’.

Diagnostic science is not precise. It can take a lot of tests plus sooo much depends on patient feedback which is very, very subjective. I’d personally prefer the open conversation as much as possible but I certainly understand it when they won’t go into detail.

If this were a one off it would be one thing and easily explainable by your example and thus annoying but ok

It happens with damn near every incident, hence the jokes coming true

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

So what do we want? Honest feedback as we go or ‘No comment’ until every test is complete. Followed by no more than ‘week to week’.

Trust me, NOTHING would be good enough.

 

[Trash Panda]

Threads like this make me feel like mods would be money ahead to close GDT’s, ya know, after game day.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Threads like this make me feel like mods would be money ahead to close GDT’s, ya know, after game day.

Back in my day we tried that and people got upset that we cut short their ongoing discussions

its lose lose, usually they just run their course and die out