GDT: 2023-24 season game 25 LA Kings vs New York Rangers @4:00pm 12/10/23

[FrozenKing18]

I'm not completely writing him off until the 40 game mark, but I do agree that he should be producing more. I get that his mere presence in the lineup helps with match ups but there are going to be some games where he needs to step up and make plays, hit someone, or be a menace rather than coasting.

 

[kingsholygrail]

They should flip him with Danault and see if it jump starts him. His wingers aren't exactly offensively minded.

 

[Little Psycho]

Saw in that Kings black and white video that was posted a few days ago where Luc was saying it takes new guys 10-30 games to be able to understand everyone’s tendencies. I get that, but like what’s his excuse for his lack of trying??

 

[Bandit]

Saw in that Kings black and white video that was posted a few days ago where Luc was saying it takes new guys 10-30 games to be able to understand everyone’s tendencies. I get that, but like what’s his excuse for his lack of trying??

Hadn't heard of this one before...

Cheese-eating surrender monkeys - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[bland]

You have to decouple the player and the salary to evaluate your play. Otherwise, I expect Ohtani to pitch no-hitters and bat grand slams every night. Ability and health vs performance is the proper coupling, and I agree - based on his ability and what I assume to be good health, PLD needs to do better. But hammering away at the 8.5 million is sorta dumb. He got what he was was able to get, and that's because Blake was willing to pay it.

For instance, I think Kempe deserves more, but that's the contract he signed. Kempe didn't sign his contract because he's an angel - it's because he had little leverage. And Kempe's not a "better" player because he's cheaper - he's better because he's better.

No, you don't.

Blake had one big swing to take and he used it on a player known, even vilified for his lack of on-ice commitment with two other teams. This isn't a surprise to anyone paying attention. Giving that tyoe of player that deal has had potential for big regrets from the moment it was announced.

 

[kinghock]

Saw in that Kings black and white video that was posted a few days ago where Luc was saying it takes new guys 10-30 games to be able to understand everyone’s tendencies. I get that, but like what’s his excuse for his lack of trying??

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

You have to decouple the player and the salary to evaluate your play. Otherwise, I expect Ohtani to pitch no-hitters and bat grand slams every night. Ability and health vs performance is the proper coupling, and I agree - based on his ability and what I assume to be good health, PLD needs to do better. But hammering away at the 8.5 million is sorta dumb. He got what he was was able to get, and that's because Blake was willing to pay it.

For instance, I think Kempe deserves more, but that's the contract he signed. Kempe didn't sign his contract because he's an angel - it's because he had little leverage. And Kempe's not a "better" player because he's cheaper - he's better because he's better.

Sorry but I disagree fully.

In a cap environment, a player's value-to-contract is arguably one of the most important things.

What we've observed especially is that it's not the superstar contracts that break a team--it's the middle class contracts being overpaid that kill Cup runs as they bleed depth when ELCs run out and you're paying more for less production. Teams with the window open often get lucky with one or two budget salaries being excellent (EG Byfield) balancing out some of the heavier ones, but that runs out and your ability to cut down the fat salaries are what keeps your window open. Blake's already backed them into a corner with no real ELC talent on the way outside Clarke and the RFAs that he's kicked the can down the road on forever are gonna be waived or paid.

If you go by the rough 1 million = 10 points deal, which will surely change in the coming years, PLD was only slightly overpaid and it was for upside and intangibles. Well, we're not even getting the DOWNside right now, this is the worst output he's had in his career. So yeah it's vital that he starts 'living up to the salary' so to speak.

Even decoupling the salary, though, you can't make a good faith assessment that he's been good. He hasn't been a liability, but you need more than that from a 3C to be a contender. It's no wonder people have loaded up on the 1st line again.

 

[ScoreZeGoals]

PLD is playing like Byfield was last year. Brief moments where he shines but the vast majority of time he disappears into the background and makes questionable decisions with the puck. Problem is PLD is in his prime making $8.5 over 8 years while Byfield was a 20 year old looking to find his footing in the NHL while growing into his frame.

PLD has to be better, because although it's been a relatively small sample size, it's simply not good enough. People here were calling for Byfield to be sent to the AHL last year for playing like this

 

[Eagle Fang]

You have to decouple the player and the salary to evaluate your play. Otherwise, I expect Ohtani to pitch no-hitters and bat grand slams every night. Ability and health vs performance is the proper coupling, and I agree - based on his ability and what I assume to be good health, PLD needs to do better. But hammering away at the 8.5 million is sorta dumb. He got what he was was able to get, and that's because Blake was willing to pay it.

For instance, I think Kempe deserves more, but that's the contract he signed. Kempe didn't sign his contract because he's an angel - it's because he had little leverage. And Kempe's not a "better" player because he's cheaper - he's better because he's better.

I think I understand your point, and if so, I agree.

Just because PLD was given a 8.5 million dollar contract isn't all of sudden going to make him produce like you'd expect an 8.5 million dollar per year player to.

That's on Blake.

I don't think there was a single person in favor of the trade and for all the reasons we're seeing with PLD now. The baggage that's hung over him from Columbus and Winnipeg are quite evident here.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Oh, if you want me to blame Blake instead of PLD, sure, I can do that too it's not HIS fault he got paiiiiiid

however it IS his fault he's producing less than Blake Lizotte after regularly producing twice that.

 

[jgs]

You really still think that's still what's on his mind?

I think he'd rather be modeling for Gucci or some shit than getting banged up at an ice rink.

You could very well be right but going off what came out of his mouth, Montreal is the team he would love to play for. At the end of the day, he isn't putting out $8.5 mill worth of hockey.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

You could very well be right but going off what came out of his mouth, Montreal is the team he would love to play for. At the end of the day, he isn't putting out $8.5 mill worth of hockey.

If Montreal was truly the team he would love to play for.....simple question...why isn't he there? He could have told every team that tried to trade for him, I won't sign with you.......he didn't do that..why not?

 

[Sol]

alright… what’s Plds value now? Let’s get him on the trade block.

 

[Eagle Fang]

Oh, if you want me to blame Blake instead of PLD, sure, I can do that too it's not HIS fault he got paiiiiiid

however it IS his fault he's producing less than Blake Lizotte after regularly producing twice that.

No for sure and it isn't to absolve PLD of criticism by any means. It's just that I do agree with Choralone, in that any anger about his contract isn't necessarily his fault and just because he's paid 8.5 million per year isn't going to turn him into an 8.5 million dollar player production wise.

I'm just as frustrated watching PLD as everyone else, but the irritation I have is towards Blake for thinking he was worth that despite all the negatives surrounding PLD as a player.

That being said, I'm probably in the minority here, but I do have some hope for PLD. I know it's a point of contention, but I do think his line mates are part of the issue... By that I mean, PLD is not a player who seems to have the ability to drive a line. He's more a very good complimentary player when paired with other skilled players.

Certainly not the type of player you want signed at that contract, but again that's on Blake.

At this point, whether deserved or not, it's in LA's best interest to get his ass going and I don't think Grundstrom and Laferriere are the way to do that.

If you really want to press me for an opinion, I would honestly like to see PLD / Fiala given another go. That was the initial hope and they did click in preseason. I think a part of that combo's struggles early was on Fiala who hasn't quite looked the same this year.

 

[King'sPawn]

No for sure and it isn't to absolve PLD of criticism by any means. It's just that I do agree with Choralone, in that any anger about his contract isn't necessarily his fault and just because he's paid 8.5 million per year isn't going to turn him into an 8.5 million dollar player production wise.

I'm just as frustrated watching PLD as everyone else, but the irritation I have is towards Blake for thinking he was worth that despite all the negatives surrounding PLD as a player.

That being said, I'm probably in the minority here, but I do have some hope for PLD. I know it's a point of contention, but I do think his line mates are part of the issue... By that I mean, PLD is not a player who seems to have the ability to drive a line. He's more a very good complimentary player when paired with other skilled players.

Certainly not the type of player you want signed at that contract, but again that's on Blake.

At this point, whether deserved or not, it's in LA's best interest to get his ass going and I don't think Grundstrom and Laferriere are the way to do that.

If you really want to press me for an opinion, I would honestly like to see PLD / Fiala given another go. That was the initial hope and they did click in preseason. I think a part of that combo's struggles early was on Fiala who hasn't quite looked the same this year.

I agree with a lot of this.

I don't blame PLD for his contract. Heck, if my job offered me $8.5 million even though it's not worth that, I'd take it.

His level of engagement is his fault though. I don't blame players who, in my opinion, play well but the points aren't going in. That's why I was an ardent defender of Byfield. His issues were more based on experience and confidence. The effort was there, and his capacity to learn and improve was demonstrated by how he improved in the minutiae when he forechecks.

I can't say I feel the same general positivity towards PLD. The BEST defense he has right now is just not having chemistry with the players he's played with. He's been in the league for 6 years - sure, he's young and has room to improve, but he's not making rookie mistakes. He played for Tortorella, so he knows how coaches emphasize 200' of playing.

He does have a good toolset with his size and skills.. But it appears he needs better facilitators where he's just not expected to drive a line. I dislike paying a one-dimensional player that much when he can't get himself going, but it's not my money and it's too late anyway.

So, because I'm sure eventually he'll find players he meshes better with, he'll do better than .5 points/game. The question is if it willbe as early as this season or as late as the last.

 

[Fripp]

What the rest of the league just learned is that if you play very tight gaps, push them around a bit, and stand up at your blue line, the Kings will make zero adjustments, keep trying lateral passes 1 foot into the zone, and get nothing offensively.

 

[Bandit]

If Pierre Luc DuNothing was at least hustling out there every shift (or heck, most of them) and just wasn't getting the bounces, he'd get a lot more leeway from me. Byfield was at least trying last year so you could give him some rope, but when you see PLD not get the pass he wants and just skate over the blueline before lazily looping his way back onside, it make me want to punch him in his stupid f***ing mustache.

Zero excuse for zero effort.

 

[Kurrilino]

So when are we grabbing our pitchforks and heading to PL’s house? I know someone in real estate and can get his address in a minute. Any day is fine this week except Thursday.

What's the rush?

Kopitar was a 60+ point player at $10mill for many years and people were extremely happy with that.
Let's keep reality and responsibility out of this chat please, if Kopitar is a HFBoard self declared future Hall of Famer, why can't PLD?
PLD is as same unable to take over a game when it matters as the other guys who are paid for that, why single him out?

 

[Bandit]

What's the rush?

Kopitar was a 60+ point player at $10mill for many years and people were extremely happy with that.
Let's keep reality and responsibility out of this chat please, if Kopitar is a HFBoard self declared future Hall of Famer, why can't PLD?
PLD is as same unable to take over a game when it matters as the other guys who are paid for that, why single him out?

Kopitar plays defense. Kopitar backchecks. Kopitar hustles. Oh and PLD is on pace for 36 points, not 60+. Math is hard.

 

[fivehole32]

A friend of mine who is from Calgary and a big Flames fan put it to me this way about Huberdeau. Once he was paid, his agent told him make sure you make it to the end of your contract. Obviously that's speculation, but it does make you wonder once a player gets term and money if that's why they start coasting. Whether that's PLD or not, who knows.

 

[Eagle Fang]

I agree with a lot of this.

I don't blame PLD for his contract. Heck, if my job offered me $8.5 million even though it's not worth that, I'd take it.

His level of engagement is his fault though. I don't blame players who, in my opinion, play well but the points aren't going in. That's why I was an ardent defender of Byfield. His issues were more based on experience and confidence. The effort was there, and his capacity to learn and improve was demonstrated by how he improved in the minutiae when he forechecks.

I can't say I feel the same general positivity towards PLD. The BEST defense he has right now is just not having chemistry with the players he's played with. He's been in the league for 6 years - sure, he's young and has room to improve, but he's not making rookie mistakes. He played for Tortorella, so he knows how coaches emphasize 200' of playing.

He does have a good toolset with his size and skills.. But it appears he needs better facilitators where he's just not expected to drive a line. I dislike paying a one-dimensional player that much when he can't get himself going, but it's not my money and it's too late anyway.

So, because I'm sure eventually he'll find players he meshes better with, he'll do better than .5 points/game. The question is if it willbe as early as this season or as late as the last.

All good points and I very much agree, as I think anyone who has watched him play would... the effort level just doesn't seem to be there. He's almost like a robot. It's absolutely frustrating because when he does show rare glimpses of a pulse, he can be very effective. At the same time though, I think it's safe to say his game is what most of us expected, but hoped wouldn't be so. It's disappointing, but not a surprise.

And I know there's been talk about how he's being fed cushy deployments and minutes and at some point it's on him to take advantage of those opportunities. Any additional catering to him is ridiculous and undeserving for sure.

At the same time though, because of that contract, LA / Blake has backed himself into that corner. No matter how undeserving, a lot of LA's success is pinned to PLD producing far more than he has. As unfair and gross as it may be, finding a fit for PLD is extremely important.

Because the alternative is to continue to have 8.5 x 8 on the books for a .44 ppg, 3rd line center which just doesn't work.

I agree 100% about him need better "facilitators" and that was probably the logic of management. The expectation was to have him play with Fiala who is such a player. And while it didn't work out initially, I don't think it's an idea that should be abandoned yet.

Very unfortunate situation.

 

[Kudelski37]

Jimmy Carson at age 25 had 11 points in 25 games in his last season with LA and was traded for much less than the Kings traded to acquire him less than a year earlier. He was out of the NHL two years later. It really can snow ball that quickly with some guys.

 

[LilBallofHate]

You guys are hilarious, just set an NHL record and we're 16-5-4 and some people are still bitching about crap. oh Geez. I am a pessimist as well, but you guys take it up a notch. Can't even enjoy a beautiful year so far.

 

[lexlavender]

At least losing now may encourage TM to make some adjustments to better optimize everyone, including PLD

 

[SettlementRichie10]

You guys are hilarious, just set an NHL record and we're 16-5-4 and some people are still bitching about crap. oh Geez. I am a pessimist as well, but you guys take it up a notch. Can't even enjoy a beautiful year so far.

Go stick your head in the sand with the rest of the cheerleaders.