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2023-24 Junior Hockey Expansion, Relocation, and Retraction

Barclay Donaldson

Barclay Donaldson

Registered User
Feb 4, 2018
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Tatooine
USHL
EXPANSION - none
RELOCATION - none
RETRACTION - ha yeah right
NAHL
EXPANSION
  1. Rochester Jr. Americans - NAHL team in Rochester, New York approved for the 2023-24 season
    1. Rochester Ice Center, Fairport, NY
    2. Pretty small rec rink in a market that is pretty packed between the AHL and NCAA DI. Not sure how big of a crowd they will draw, and they aren't owned by the rink
  2. Colorado Grit - NAHL team in Greeley, Colorado approved for the 2023-24 season
    1. Greeley Ice Haus, Greeley, CO
    2. Somewhat larger rec rink, possibly in a location that could draw a crowd and develop a fanbase that could support a team
    3. Interesting development, this is the same rink the USPHL Northern Colorado Eagles play out of. Their plans for the 2023-24 season include NCDC and Premier teams. I highly doubt both teams will be allowed to play there. Possibly another USAH-USPHL battle for a market like what was scene in South Jersey/Philadelphia and Maine.
  3. New Hampshire Mountain Kings - NAHL team in Hooksett, NH approved for the 2023-24 season
    1. Tri-Town Ice Arena, Hooksett, NH
    2. Larger dual sheet rec rink. Has drawn fans in the past and used to have a fanbase.
    3. Presumably replacing the New Hampshire Monarchs NCDC team
RELOCATION - it's early days, none yet
RETRACTION - yeah, right
USPHL
EXPANSION
RELOCATION
RETRACTION
  • Bridgewater Bandits leaving for EHL

EHL
EXPANSION
  1. ** announced but not included for 2023-24 season** Boston Jr. Eagles - EHL Announces New Group of Franchises
    1. Boston Sports Institute, Wellesley, MA
    2. They have a well-known youth organization that plays in nearby Newton, MA
  2. Boston Jr. Terriers - EHL Announces New Group of Franchises
    1. Canton SportsPlex - Canton, MA
    2. They have a well-known youth organization that plays in locally
  3. Providence Hockey Club - EHL Announces New Group of Franchises
    1. Rhode Island Sports Center - North Smithfield, RI
    2. Another one with a well-known youth organization that plays nearby
  4. Pennsylvania Huntsmen - 2023-24 Huntsmen Expansion
    1. Power Play Rinks - Exton, PA
  5. Bridgewater Bandits - Bandits Rejoining EHL and EHLP
    1. Bridgewater Ice Arena - Bridgewater, MA
RELOCATION - they're usually pretty solid with none
RETRACTION - not with this league
NA3HL
EXPANSION - none
RELOCATION
RETRACTION - not with this league
Click to read more...
 
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Pretty sure that the NAHL was pretty pissed off that the USPHL beat them to the punch in reaching the west market with the formation of the NCDC West. Therefore, the Greeley Grit’s expansion was approved, no matter what, even though it appears that the Travel logistics will be tough. I’m all up for the expansion, as the Western kids are deserving of this, there is Talent here in the West for sure.
My confusion or concern is, why pick a city, and a rink, that already host a Junior Team, that will be part of the NCDC next season?
I wonder if there is knowledge, by both Leagues, that perhaps the Jr Eagles will start playing at Loveland, where the Pro Team Eagles play?
 
Rbenj said:
Pretty sure that the NAHL was pretty pissed off that the USPHL beat them to the punch in reaching the west market with the formation of the NCDC West. Therefore, the Greeley Grit’s expansion was approved, no matter what, even though it appears that the Travel logistics will be tough.
Click to expand...

The NAHL has usually been pretty reactive to competition. Their entire East Coast division was a reaction to the threat of free-to-play competition.

Rbenj said:
I’m all up for the expansion, as the Western kids are deserving of this, there is Talent here in the West for sure.
Click to expand...

While not an incorrect statement, I don't understand why it's relevant.

Talented players get discovered and recruited no matter where they are from. This is a league where the vast majority of players who get any appreciable amount of game time are players who were drafted by the organization. Every team in the NAHL has a national-based roster.

In short, the addition of this NAHL team to the state of Colorado doesn't suddenly open up opportunities to to local talent that wasn't already there.

Rbenj said:
My confusion or concern is, why pick a city, and a rink, that already host a Junior Team, that will be part of the NCDC next season?
Click to expand...

Remove the opportunity for a rival league to have the market all to themselves. They booted out South Jersey last season and took the lion's share in Lewiston/Auburn. There is precedent to them making reactive moves.

Rbenj said:
I wonder if there is knowledge, by both Leagues, that perhaps the Jr Eagles will start playing at Loveland, where the Pro Team Eagles play?
Click to expand...

Highly unlikely due to the costs associated with playing there. The league is free to play and isn't advertised as league reliant upon fan revenue. They find situations where ice costs are low, typically meaning they own the rink.
 
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I think we're going to see a western turf war with the USPHL and NAHL over the next few years. This Colorado Grit team is the first step toward that. And perhaps in reality we've already been in the midst of it (albeit aided by the WSHL quick downward spiral) with El Paso, and OKC (via the NA3HL at first) coming into the league.

Some of the USPHL West is made up of the other refugees from the WSHL that are still firmly "No USA Hockey" minded but some organizations in the USPHL that haven't joined with that focus and more due to just the availability of opponents might be able to be flipped
 
Idaho Falls has really gotten behind our new USPHL team, selling out nearly every home game in our new 4,000 seat arena. I can't think of any other tier III programs with this kind of support lol. They'll be in the NCDC next year so hopefully the on ice quality improves.
 
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kneelworm said:
Idaho Falls has really gotten behind our new USPHL team, selling out nearly every home game in our new 4,000 seat arena. I can't think of any other tier III programs with this kind of support lol.
Click to expand...

Certainly impressive support so far in Idaho Falls, but let's see if that support extends past Season 1. They certainly wouldn't be the first or last place to have fan support fall off a cliff in Season 2. If Idaho Falls ends up bringing support year in and year out, they ought to look at a level of junior higher than USPHL.

kneelworm said:
They'll be in the NCDC next year so hopefully the on ice quality improves.
Click to expand...

Hard for it to be worse than what they're watching now.
 
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Barclay Donaldson said:
Certainly impressive support so far in Idaho Falls, but let's see if that support extends past Season 1. They certainly wouldn't be the first or last place to have fan support fall off a cliff in Season 2. If Idaho Falls ends up bringing support year in and year out, they ought to look at a level of junior higher than USPHL.



Hard for it to be worse than what they're watching now.
Click to expand...
Idaho Falls is a team I wouldn't be surprised to eventually see flip to the NAHL. Their ownership group isn't in the USPHL to be outside of USA Hockey control.
 
mk80 said:
Idaho Falls is a team I wouldn't be surprised to eventually see flip to the NAHL. Their ownership group isn't in the USPHL to be outside of USA Hockey control.
Click to expand...
Yeah, like what someone said in the old thread, we were originally planned to get a NA3HL team. So the goal could very well still be NAHL in a few years.
 
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mk80 said:
Idaho Falls is a team I wouldn't be surprised to eventually see flip to the NAHL. Their ownership group isn't in the USPHL to be outside of USA Hockey control.
Click to expand...

Travel is likely killing their ability to ice a team there. Probably 10 hours by bus to their closest opponents. If they get a Montana team or two, possibly some more in Colorado/Utah, they'll go over. They wanted to go over to your NA3HL as of spring of this year, so you're probably right the USPHL isn't their choice because of a hatred of USA Hockey.

kneelworm said:
Yeah, like what someone said in the old thread, we were originally planned to get a NA3HL team. So the goal could very well still be NAHL in a few years.
Click to expand...


Spud King's first game was fall of 2022, even in spring of 2022 they were still reported to be joining the NA3HL. The name the team contest was still linked with the NA3HL. It's anyone's idea as to why the decided to go down an alternate route.
 
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Well this is interesting, the announced Head Coach for the Grit, Steve Haddon, is the current Head Coach/GM of the Jr Eagles. I’m guessing the Jr Eagles have been sold, and that this new ownership group of Clarkson, Bowden, and Bradshaw preferred the NAHL over the NCDC, even though logistically, Bus travel will be brutal. (Unless the Nahl will approve flights for this team, until further expansion to nearby cities happen).
 
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Rbenj said:
Well this is interesting, the announced Head Coach for the Grit, Steve Haddon, is the current Head Coach/GM of the Jr Eagles. I’m guessing the Jr Eagles have been sold, and that this new ownership group of Clarkson, Bowden, and Bradshaw preferred the NAHL over the NCDC, even though logistically, Bus travel will be brutal. (Unless the Nahl will approve flights for this team, until further expansion to nearby cities happen).
Click to expand...
Not necessarily, although I do think they're probably done because of the logistics and politics that comes with a NAHL team coming into the arena. Jr. Eagles are owned by some guy named Casey Bradshaw, and it's not like he doesn't have plenty of time to find someone else to run a team while likely needing to find a new barn that fits their very strict requirements.
 
Throw this into the mix, Casey Bradshaw has ownership in both the Jr Eagles and the Grit….
I don’t understand why there are all sorts of publications regarding the Grit, and even mentioning it as a new team, and expansion team, and yet there is no news or write up on what’s going on with the Jr Eagles.
Probably perhaps because current USPHL season is still on-going?
 
Rbenj said:
Throw this into the mix, Casey Bradshaw has ownership in both the Jr Eagles and the Grit….
I don’t understand why there are all sorts of publications regarding the Grit, and even mentioning it as a new team, and expansion team, and yet there is no news or write up on what’s going on with the Jr Eagles.
Probably perhaps because current USPHL season is still on-going?
Click to expand...

It's junior hockey. These things get swept under the rug all the time. Look at all the deceased junior teams. We had like 10 die over the past 4 months, never heard a word about it.
 
Barclay Donaldson said:
Travel is likely killing their ability to ice a team there. Probably 10 hours by bus to their closest opponents. If they get a Montana team or two, possibly some more in Colorado/Utah, they'll go over. They wanted to go over to your NA3HL as of spring of this year, so you're probably right the USPHL isn't their choice because of a hatred of USA Hockey.




Spud King's first game was fall of 2022, even in spring of 2022 they were still reported to be joining the NA3HL. The name the team contest was still linked with the NA3HL. It's anyone's idea as to why the decided to go down an alternate route.
Click to expand...

I think over the course of the next year we're going to see more development toward a Mountain Division for the NAHL. The Grit are the first step, but if the NAHL could flip Pueblo, Idaho Falls, and find a way to fill in the gaps with some former/current western junior markets in Cheyenne, or Billings maybe. Both of whom only lost their teams due to contractual disputes with arenas. Perhaps some of the current NA3HL teams are in a position to elevate.

This is all speculative, and admittedly blue sky type of thinking. But I definitely think the plan is not for the Grit to play in the South Division long term.

Rbenj said:
Well this is interesting, the announced Head Coach for the Grit, Steve Haddon, is the current Head Coach/GM of the Jr Eagles. I’m guessing the Jr Eagles have been sold, and that this new ownership group of Clarkson, Bowden, and Bradshaw preferred the NAHL over the NCDC, even though logistically, Bus travel will be brutal. (Unless the Nahl will approve flights for this team, until further expansion to nearby cities happen).
Click to expand...

Rbenj said:
Throw this into the mix, Casey Bradshaw has ownership in both the Jr Eagles and the Grit….
Click to expand...
This confirms my suspicions that the Grit are going to replace the Jr. Eagles as the junior team in town instead of competing against one another for the market. I wonder why with Bradshaw on board they decided not to carry on with the Jr. Eagles branding, unless maybe Bradshaw wants to relocate and operate them in the USPHL in another area of Colorado? NA3HL maybe? :huh:
 
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mk80 said:
I think over the course of the next year we're going to see more development toward a Mountain Division for the NAHL. The Grit are the first step, but if the NAHL could flip Pueblo, Idaho Falls, and find a way to fill in the gaps with some former/current western junior markets in Cheyenne, or Billings maybe. Both of whom only lost their teams due to contractual disputes with arenas. Perhaps some of the current NA3HL teams are in a position to elevate.

This is all speculative, and admittedly blue sky type of thinking. But I definitely think the plan is not for the Grit to play in the South Division long term.




This confirms my suspicions that the Grit are going to replace the Jr. Eagles as the junior team in town instead of competing against one another for the market. I wonder why with Bradshaw on board they decided not to carry on with the Jr. Eagles branding, unless maybe Bradshaw wants to relocate and operate them in the USPHL in another area of Colorado? NA3HL maybe? :huh:
Click to expand...

Probably for marketing. Easier to go with separate branding so people don't ask "are you guys the actual Colorado Eagles in the AHL?"
 
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mk80 said:
I think over the course of the next year we're going to see more development toward a Mountain Division for the NAHL. The Grit are the first step, but if the NAHL could flip Pueblo, Idaho Falls, and find a way to fill in the gaps with some former/current western junior markets in Cheyenne, or Billings maybe. Both of whom only lost their teams due to contractual disputes with arenas. Perhaps some of the current NA3HL teams are in a position to elevate.
Click to expand...
Hell, with the Grit, Rhinos, Ice Wolves, Pueblo, stretch it with Idaho Falls, and maybe flip a Utah or Wyoming market or two, you've got a Mountian Division. If they get Utah teams, maybe Flagstaff gets a look too.
 
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SemireliableSource said:
Hell, with the Grit, Rhinos, Ice Wolves, Pueblo, stretch it with Idaho Falls, and maybe flip a Utah or Wyoming market or two, you've got a Mountian Division. If they get Utah teams, maybe Flagstaff gets a look too.
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Getting that I-25 corridor solidified is very doable, there's some open markets in Wyoming into Montana, or ones occupied by 3HL teams who knows maybe one or two are in position to move up a level? And the teams like Pueblo and Idaho Falls are not actively trying to avoid being USAH affiliated. Further west into Utah and beyond is going to be the tougher to not only expand at the right pace, but you get into the core of former WSHL teams and newer USPHL organizations that don't want to be affiliated with USA Hockey
 
mk80 said:
Getting that I-25 corridor solidified is very doable, there's some open markets in Wyoming into Montana, or ones occupied by 3HL teams who knows maybe one or two are in position to move up a level? And the teams like Pueblo and Idaho Falls are not actively trying to avoid being USAH affiliated. Further west into Utah and beyond is going to be the tougher to not only expand at the right pace, but you get into the core of former WSHL teams and newer USPHL organizations that don't want to be affiliated with USA Hockey
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Getting Ogden who average around the 800-1000 per game mark would be big to help getting a division set up. Out of the Fronter NA3HL teams, I doubt anyone other than Helena could make the jump. They are reporting about 1200 per game there, and they've been in the league before. That division travel would be hell, but they need minimum 3-4 more markets than Greeley just to start.
 
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PCSPounder said:
Flipping Northern Colorado seems like step 1 to flipping a few other markets.

Not just the USPHL, though. Consider the recent Billings pro “effort,” consider the Great Falls arena proposal.
Click to expand...
Municipal entities & local business leaders often underestimate the advantages of having a junior hockey team in town ... QUICK, can somebody remind what those advantages are? :huh:
 
Barclay Donaldson said:
Spud King's first game was fall of 2022, even in spring of 2022 they were still reported to be joining the NA3HL. The name the team contest was still linked with the NA3HL. It's anyone's idea as to why the decided to go down an alternate route.
Click to expand...
Travel to the Utah teams is favorable for Idaho Falls. So there’s hardly any harm in a shakedown cruise to determine if the sport at the junior level will have staying power in an arena over 4,000 capacity. Wait out the impending turf war (I’m sure there were rumors about Greeley). Pounce on an opportunity when ready.

Especially when you consider the tickets are $20 a pop.
 
Just in case some of the cities these leagues are looking at are in northern Washington, Idaho or (doubtful but you never know??) Montana.

The BCHL is musing about adding another US based team or two.

 
MeHateHe said:
Just in case some of the cities these leagues are looking at are in northern Washington, Idaho or (doubtful but you never know??) Montana.

The BCHL is musing about adding another US based team or two.

Click to expand...

I was wondering if this would happen. As for Idaho I feel like Idaho Falls/Boise is too far South but maybe CDA? Moscow?
 
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