Speculation: 2023-24-25 Sharks Roster Discussion

[Sharksfan66]

I have perhaps an unpopular opinion: Thomas Harley is a better defenseman than Heiskanen at this point and if the Stars were willing to go there I bet they could fix all their problems in one fell swoop by trading him.

I think Heiskanen’s prime might be behind him, which feels crazy to say about a 25 year old, and yet.


I have to assume the ask starts with Dickinson.

I would actually join you in this opinion, but for me, I'm more thinking highly of Harley after watching him at 4 nations and in the playoffs than I am critical of Heiskanen.

What makes you say Heiskanen may be past his prime? I admittedly haven't watched a ton of him besides games vs. SJ, but he did stink it up for my fantasy team this year. I figured it was just a down year though...

 

[sharks_dynasty]

I would actually join you in this opinion, but for me, I'm more thinking highly of Harley after watching him at 4 nations and in the playoffs than I am critical of Heiskanen.

What makes you say Heiskanen may be past his prime? I admittedly haven't watched a ton of him besides games vs. SJ, but he did stink it up for my fantasy team this year. I figured it was just a down year though...

Wasn’t Heiskanen injured? He’s hardly passed his prime. My bet is his best years are still ahead of him. nevertheless, I don’t think the sharks should trade for him.

 

[Sharksfan66]

Wasn’t Heiskanen injured? He’s hardly passed his prime. My bet is his best years are still ahead of him. nevertheless, I don’t think the sharks should trade for him.

Purely scoreboard watching, his production was way down before the injury. I didn't think he looked great in the playoffs, but like you, I figured he wasn't 100% at that point.

I'm curious why you don't think the Sharks should trade for him if you think his best years are still ahead? I wouldn't give up Dickinson as has been suggested, but I'd do 2OA + Dalas 1st + something else good. Gosh, people have talked about giving up that much to move up to pick the guy we all hope might reach a ceiling of being as good as Heiskanen. Why not trade for the real thing? Heiskanen would also fit our timeline better IMO, assuming he's not actually past his prime. If he is, that's another story...

 

[coooldude]

Where did this Heiskanen talk come from? Is there any indication at all that Dallas would move on from their #1d, or perhaps soon to be #2, for a bunch of futures?

 

[Juxtaposer]

I would actually join you in this opinion, but for me, I'm more thinking highly of Harley after watching him at 4 nations and in the playoffs than I am critical of Heiskanen.

What makes you say Heiskanen may be past his prime? I admittedly haven't watched a ton of him besides games vs. SJ, but he did stink it up for my fantasy team this year. I figured it was just a down year though...

I just feel like every time I watch him, he doesn’t live up to my expectations. Not like he’s deeply declining or anything like that, but I just think we’ve seen the best of him already.

 

[Sharksfan66]

Where did this Heiskanen talk come from? Is there any indication at all that Dallas would move on from their #1d, or perhaps soon to be #2, for a bunch of futures?

For me, it's looking at Dallas failing to get past the WCF for the third year in a row. You know the definition of insanity...

Also, Harley has showed himself to be a legit 1D in Heiskanen's absence. And of course they're up against the cap and going to lose someone they like this offseason.

This is a team primed to make some surprising moves this offseason IMO.

And if I were them, adding Misa to that forward group would be a great way to keep the competitive window open. You can always sign someone like Ekblad to be your #2.

 

[LinkGaetz23]

Where did this Heiskanen talk come from? Is there any indication at all that Dallas would move on from their #1d, or perhaps soon to be #2, for a bunch of futures?

It was pointed out that Dallas has serious cap issues and Harley's emergence makes Heiskanen more expendable for Dallas, especially with Harley being significantly cheaper and possibly better. Realistically they are more focused on the now than on futures, but it's worth thinking about. Maybe a 3 team trade is an option as well.

 

[Lebanezer]

I don't know if I necessarily put them in the same category simply because Lund was going to sign regardless as he was Sharks property already so Grier just wanted a look. I'm not sure Graf signs with us if Grier doesn't promise him immediate NHL games.

Either or

The parallel is that Lund signed and didn't immediately go to the AHL, which is where he should have at least finished the season. He got to burn a year off his deal and get paid NHL salary for 4 weeks. Playing in the playoffs with the Cuda would've been a positive with Poturalski out. Even if he was Sharks property, NCAA players always have the ability to force their way to another organization, and even though it's speculative, it has happened many times before, including with Graf.

 

[sampler]

I just feel like every time I watch him, he doesn’t live up to my expectations. Not like he’s deeply declining or anything like that, but I just think we’ve seen the best of him already.

I wouldnt offer up anything close the #2 OA for heiskenen. Thats a potential #1 Dman or #1/2C for 15 years on ELC/second contract $$$.

However, I would be willing to trade some nice futures for him. dal 1st, edm 1st, any of the top wingers, cagnoni...

The sharks seem miles away from contention, but they really arent. They are a few high end D and a few high end forwards from legit PO contention. Maybe even legit cup contention.

Remember, if healthy, 4Dmen can play virtually the entire game. 12 Dmen in the playoffs averaged over 25+ mins/gm. If you have 4 guys that can log those kind of minutes, you have 50 out of 60 minutes accounted for.

Top forwards play 18-20 mins. So, 6 forwards can cover 2/3 of the game.

You also need 1 top goalie.

Thats 11 core players: Celebrini, Smith, Eklund, Askarov, and dickinson are likely to be 5 of those guys. Misa/Schaefer will be a 6th. Signing two more by UFA (bennett-types) makes 8. Add in 1-2 more by trade (like heiskinen, dobson, miller, and/or byram), and you have 9 or 10.

That's getting very very close to a full PO worthy roster. And most of all, the 4D is all you need to anchor the most important position. Dick and Mukh may rise to that level. But we need one, or preferably two, proven NHL top pair guys.

I hope grier takes a legit run at getting at least one this summer. Heiskinen would be a great add.

 

[sampler]

It was pointed out that Dallas has serious cap issues and Harley's emergence makes Heiskanen more expendable for Dallas, especially with Harley being significantly cheaper and possibly better. Realistically they are more focused on the now than on futures, but it's worth thinking about. Maybe a 3 team trade is an option as well.

Exactly right! Harley is the big difference. Hes the clear #1 of today and tomorrow now. Heiskenen has injuries and is costly. The question for dallas is who do I want to commit to over the coming half decade?

Robertson and harley will be very expensive to resign after this coming season. Furthermore, Dallas has to jettison some slary to work the cap for this coming season (5M cap space for 5-6F and 1-2D.) As such, they have to drop salary this offseason. Dumba and marchment are clear candidates, but Heiskinen might be one too given the cap, the players they will wnat to commit to, and Harley's emergence which was solidified in the POs, where he played nearly 26 mins/gm.

Other teams might offer more but the sharks have alot to offer if grier wants to be aggressive.

Can you guys imagine Heiskenen and Dobson both coming to SJ this summer? The sign Bennett and Granny and we'd be an arguably PO team.

 

[TheBeard]

Exactly right! Harley is the big difference. Hes the clear #1 of today and tomorrow now. Heiskenen has injuries and is costly. The question for dallas is who do I want to commit to over the coming half decade?

Robertson and harley will be very expensive to resign after this coming season. Furthermore, Dallas has to jettison some slary to work the cap for this coming season (5M cap space for 5-6F and 1-2D.) As such, they have to drop salary this offseason. Dumba and marchment are clear candidates, but Heiskinen might be one too given the cap, the players they will wnat to commit to, and Harley's emergence which was solidified in the POs, where he played nearly 26 mins/gm.

Other teams might offer more but the sharks have alot to offer if grier wants to be aggressive.

Can you guys imagine Heiskenen and Dobson both coming to SJ this summer? The sign Bennett and Granny and we'd be an arguably PO team.

There's a measly two year gap between Harley and Heiskenen.

Also, Harley looked awful this postseason once Miro came back.

This talk of Miro going anywhere is ridiculous. He's got an absurdly cheap cap hit of less than 8.5 for the next four years. Getting him would cost Smith, our first, Dickinson and Eklund.

 

[Star Platinum]

Where did this Heiskanen talk come from? Is there any indication at all that Dallas would move on from their #1d, or perhaps soon to be #2, for a bunch of futures?

We are in the dead season before Christmas on June 27

 

[Cas]

The sharks seem miles away from contention, but they really arent. They are a few high end D and a few high end forwards from legit PO contention. Maybe even legit cup contention.

"A few high end" forwards and defensemen? Just a few high-end players of each?

Sure, that's not very far away at all. Just add three or so top six forwards, three or so top four defensemen, and we'll be in good shape!

 

[OrrNumber4]

"A few high end" forwards and defensemen? Just a few high-end players of each?

Sure, that's not very far away at all. Just add three or so top six forwards, three or so top four defensemen, and we'll be in good shape!

I think the point is that there is a path where the Sharks could suddenly find themselves as a contending team, like Pittsburgh/Chicago/TBL.

Just take a very conceivable scenario: Askarov looks Vezina-caliber next season. The Sharks would have a superstar center and goaltender...that's a contending core. With cap space, draft picks, and the wealth of prospects from the 2023-2025 drafts, they could fill out the rest. Frankly, if Askarov comes as predicted, the Sharks could be playoff worthy next season if the right moves are made:

Kreider off waivers
Kotkaniemi for free
Marchment + Dumba for cheap/free
Byram for futures (2025 DAL first + Halttunen?)

Eklund-Celebrini-Toffli
Kreider-Kotkaniemi-Smith
Marchment-Wennberg-Graf
Goodrow-Ostapchuk-Dellandrea

Ferraro-Ekblad (8x7)
Byram-Liljegren
Mukhamadullin-Dumba
Desharnais

 

[Hodge]

I think the point is that there is a path where the Sharks could suddenly find themselves as a contending team, like Pittsburgh/Chicago/TBL.

Just take a very conceivable scenario: Askarov looks Vezina-caliber next season. The Sharks would have a superstar center and goaltender...that's a contending core. With cap space, draft picks, and the wealth of prospects from the 2023-2025 drafts, they could fill out the rest. Frankly, if Askarov comes as predicted, the Sharks could be playoff worthy next season if the right moves are made:

Kreider off waivers
Kotkaniemi for free
Marchment + Dumba for cheap/free
Byram for futures (2025 DAL first + Halttunen?)

Eklund-Celebrini-Toffli
Kreider-Kotkaniemi-Smith
Marchment-Wennberg-Graf
Goodrow-Ostapchuk-Dellandrea

Ferraro-Ekblad (8x7)
Byram-Liljegren
Mukhamadullin-Dumba
Desharnais

I agree with the targets but Byram and Marchment will cost a lot more than that.

 

[Le Rosbeef]

Eklund-Celebrini-Toffli
Kreider-Kotkaniemi-Smith
Marchment-Wennberg-Graf
Goodrow-Ostapchuk-Dellandrea

That vomit thing, where a li'l sick comes up, just happened.

Then my eyes bled and fell out.

 

[sharks_dynasty]

Purely scoreboard watching, his production was way down before the injury. I didn't think he looked great in the playoffs, but like you, I figured he wasn't 100% at that point.

I'm curious why you don't think the Sharks should trade for him if you think his best years are still ahead? I wouldn't give up Dickinson as has been suggested, but I'd do 2OA + Dalas 1st + something else good. Gosh, people have talked about giving up that much to move up to pick the guy we all hope might reach a ceiling of being as good as Heiskanen. Why not trade for the real thing? Heiskanen would also fit our timeline better IMO, assuming he's not actually past his prime. If he is, that's another story...

My reason is simply the timeline. I think Grier is aiming for players that are closer to Smith and Celebrini in age. I want Schaefer or an equivalent very young defenseman that can grow with the dynamic duo.

 

[SJS1991]

The only guys that interest me in a trade, when looking at CJ Athletic article as a primer, are:

-Bowen Byram
-KAndre Miller
-JJ Peterka
-Morgan Geekie

If I added anyone from Frank Seravalli’s list of targets it would only be:

-Thatcher Demko

There are clearly other trades out there to be had but based on the “insiders” those are the names that are a little interesting to me.

 

[weastern bias]

There's a measly two year gap between Harley and Heiskenen.

Also, Harley looked awful this postseason once Miro came back.

This talk of Miro going anywhere is ridiculous. He's got an absurdly cheap cap hit of less than 8.5 for the next four years. Getting him would cost Smith, our first, Dickinson and Eklund.

Echo these sentiments completely

Heiskanen isnt going to be available guys, he's an all situations 1D in his prime signed at a discount, and if he was available the trade proposals here are insulting

It starts with Smith AND the #2 pick, thats what it would take, and we'd have to think about it seriously

 

[weastern bias]

I think the point is that there is a path where the Sharks could suddenly find themselves as a contending team, like Pittsburgh/Chicago/TBL.

Just take a very conceivable scenario: Askarov looks Vezina-caliber next season. The Sharks would have a superstar center and goaltender...that's a contending core. With cap space, draft picks, and the wealth of prospects from the 2023-2025 drafts, they could fill out the rest. Frankly, if Askarov comes as predicted, the Sharks could be playoff worthy next season if the right moves are made:

Kreider off waivers
Kotkaniemi for free
Marchment + Dumba for cheap/free
Byram for futures (2025 DAL first + Halttunen?)

Eklund-Celebrini-Toffli
Kreider-Kotkaniemi-Smith
Marchment-Wennberg-Graf
Goodrow-Ostapchuk-Dellandrea

Ferraro-Ekblad (8x7)
Byram-Liljegren
Mukhamadullin-Dumba
Desharnais

That team f***ing sucks, lol

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I’d trade Goodrow and a mid or late round pick for Kotkaniemi. I wouldn’t do it for free though.

 

[WSS11]

Echo these sentiments completely

Heiskanen isnt going to be available guys, he's an all situations 1D in his prime signed at a discount, and if he was available the trade proposals here are insulting

It starts with Smith AND the #2 pick, thats what it would take, and we'd have to think about it seriously

No we wouldn’t. That’s two premium cost controlled assets for a 25 year old. Let Grier build this shit up right.

 

[SJS1991]

People are missing the boat, if Dallas is trading any big time name it’s Otter. His head coach just told everyone he ain’t got the goods!

 

[matt trick]

Hey Heiskanen, want to make 8% less post taxes on a book 5 team with no fellow Finns, or do you want to keep your money on a top 5 team that has 4 national team teammates.

Cool, just thought we’d ask. Be reasonable people!

Sure if Makar, Seider, Faber, Sanderson, Dahlin, Harley, Heiskanen or McAvoy become available, I hope we move heaven and earth. However, the reality is if those guys with NTCs become available, hopefully it’s in a year or three. If we’re on the upswing, we may have a chance. Unfortunately, we’re still in the ‘desperately acquiring talent’ phase.

 

[weastern bias]

No we wouldn’t. That’s two premium cost controlled assets for a 25 year old. Let Grier build this shit up right.

Miro Heiskanen is a premium cost controlled asset, he's a borderline Norris caliber D signed for 4 more years (ages 26-29 seasons) at far below his market value, he's one of the most valuable assets in the entire league

That's the kind of value we'd need to send to get that player because outside of Celebrini (who is off the table) we have no single "win-now" asset that could compete with the bidding war he would command, we would have to present undeniable premium futures, even Eklund doesn't move the needle the way Dallas would need in that trade package, the core has to be built around Smith or #2OV or Dickinson or our unprotected 2026 1st