Speculation: 2023-24-25 Sharks Roster Discussion

[gaucholoco3]

Are we just, like, fast-tracking the rebuild now?

When you have an 18 year old Franchise 1C who is showing he is ready and good enough to lead a team to a cup then yes you want to stop rebuilding and start building quickly.

 

[Star Platinum]

When you have an 18 year old Franchise 1C who is showing he is ready and good enough to lead a team to a cup then yes you want to stop rebuilding and start building quickly.

Like Edmonton did?

 

[mogambomoroo]

The dilemma of waiting it out or fast track the build started the day Sharks got the one and only Macklin Celebrini.

He was such a game changing piece that the pressure to ultimately succeed is higher.

Most important thing is that MG is transparent with how he wants to build this team and that Celebrini is 110% on board with the plan. Nothing else really matters at this point.

 

[STL Shark]

When you have an 18 year old Franchise 1C who is showing he is ready and good enough to lead a team to a cup then yes you want to stop rebuilding and start building quickly.

Sure, there is just the widest chasm imaginable between accelerate things and give out the richest contract in NHL history to a 6'0 winger.

If we were debating the merits of handing out a big deal to a 6'3 RHD of Marner's caliber, don't think anyone would be pushing back on the cost/term as it would be make total sense. Marner just isn't the player that makes sense for Grier to reset the entire market of the league for at this juncture.

Plus, if we're being honest there is no shot that Marner wants to come here barring a $2M+ a year increase over most any other offer.

We're at 10+ pages of this stupid Marner debate that never was on the table to happen rather than talk about actual options for next year.

 

[rsteen]

I would go up to $16 mil for Marner. One thing I will say is that his contract will absolutely not be a comp for Celebrini and definitely not Smith and Eklund. He is a UFA. Celebrini would be buying out only 3 UFA years on his second contract. Celebrini’s comp will certainly be Bedard.

If he starts spending time with Marner, why are you assuming the team would be buying out any UFA years? All the 3 young players on Toronto signed 5 or 6 year deals coming out of their ELCs so whenever they get to the UFA years, instead of getting excess value on a AAV set 6 years previously, they were asking for a new extension and a pay rise.

 

[Saskatoon]

Like Edmonton did?

Edmonton was a game away from the cup last year and are in good position to take another shot at it this year

For arguments sake did Edmonton sign anyone of Marner's significance? James Neal was definitely no Marner.

 

[sampler]

Armchair GMs with zero patience.

I've supported a UK 'Soccer' team in the 4th tier of football over here for nearly 40 years. They once won that 4th tier title and were subsequently relegated a few years later. They won at Wembley in a promotion playoff once. That's it. I've travelled to more than 500 games during that span, at approaching 60-70 different venues, mostly as an "away" fan with 3/4/5 hour round trips each time. My team is made up of players who are marginally better than part-time or semi professional players.

My point is that next season, I'll go do the same again. It's a labour of love to support this team - I holler for them every time I'm there, even though this season I think I only saw us score about 4 goals in person across many matches. It's not about low expectations - it's about fandom. I will support that team through thick and thin and when they pull on the jersey, I'll back them unconditionally. They are my team.

Sure, I'd love for Ryan Reynolds to buy us and pump in millions. But it's not happening. The reality is I'll support them no matter what whether they win a lot or just exist. Because nobody has a divine right to win.

The Sharks? No, they have no divine right either. I have supported us since expansion through the lows and the less lows - we legitimately, for the first time in franchise history, have a chance, the cap, the draft capital... a chance to build a genuinely meaningful contender. Honestly the thought of Celebrini and Misa down the middle for the next decade plus is absolutely salivating. But we are NOT there yet and so while I get that fans want to speed it up, understand that trading for players others don't want (that's the brutal truth), or overpaying in free agency, might feel like we're making progress but is it? Really?

I've spent my entire life watching and absorbed by US sport but it never ceases to amaze me how many fans are willing to toss awaydoing things properly for expediency which provides fewer guarantees. "I won't go watch at the Tank... etc etc." My word, if I lived in Cali, wild horses couldn't keep me away from watching the Sharks live every week, win or lose. As it is, I have to watch every game on NHL.tv - I love it and would do it if we go 10-72 or otherwise.

Let's not wet the bed now. The crescendo of pressure from a fan base can get deafening - just look at Toronto. We aren't that and shouldn't be that - get behind your team build it properly. Exchanging assets needs to happen when we have enough assets to actually compete - as yet, we don't.

TLDR - Stop complaining and back your team for the next 12 months as is. Post 2026 draft, we could look a WORLD better than we do right now.... Patience!

I fully expect this. If we stink and get voerhoff or lin (or mckenna) in the '26 draft, along with Misa/Schaefer in this draft, then we will be STACKED! Add to that another 6+ first/second round picks, and the farm will be so stocked that grier will finally be ready to make the UFA moves. Unfortunately, it's not stocked just enough yet.

Today, we have a 1C (mack), 2C (smith), and 1W (ek) sure thing and a likely 1/2D (dick) and 3/4D (mukh) and 1G (asky). we have a few possible 1/2/3W's (cherny, musty, halt, graf).

While that is a great farm, it's not complete. But, if you add another 1/2C (misa) and another 1/2D (voerhoff), along with several more 2/3Ws, then its go time. We likely need the '25 and '26 drafts to complete the drafting stage of the rebuild. Certainly, Grier will need to add vets, but summer of '26 is the time to really begin to "go for it" and add quality pieces that fit the long term plan.

Furthermore, this year is the THE year for the development of so many guys. So many 1st year pros, and 1st full year NHLers. Mukh's first full NHL year, Graf's too most likely. First year pro years for dick, musty, cherny, haltunnen. First full NHL year for asky. Possible first year NHL for Misa/Shcaefer.

By the end of this coming season, we will much much better know what we have and the timeline. Mack and smith were unknowns, and now we know far more what weve got. We will similarly know for a small army of guys, and if this year goes well developmentally, then grier will be ready in '26 to deploy his capital.

 

[sharski]

Go all in and put together a package for Crosby
The master and the apprentice win a cup together

Just spitballin here

 

[Jargon]

Go all in and put together a package for Crosby
The master and the apprentice win a cup together

Just spitballin here

Mr. Crosby Goes to San Jose

 

[Jargon]

I have to imagine Grier is going to aggressively try and get Mason Marchment, right? I mean, he’s the son of Grier’s close friend, he’s probably known him his whole life, and he’s the exact kind of player Grier loves. He’d look good with Will Smith, adds size, grit… feels like a key target.

 

[spintops]

I don't consider adding a elite FA as rushing the rebuild. I don't want to start trading assets (especially future 1sts) for guys yet, but Marner would be an elite core piece you are getting without giving up prospects. He is basically what you are hoping to get out of a lottery pick. We would all be ecstatic if Will Smith turned into Marner.

 

[weastern bias]

I have to imagine Grier is going to aggressively try and get Mason Marchment, right? I mean, he’s the son of Grier’s close friend, he’s probably known him his whole life, and he’s the exact kind of player Grier loves. He’d look good with Will Smith, adds size, grit… feels like a key target.

I'm not interested in Marchment solely because he just blew up his relationship with NHL refs forever this postseason

The refs are a cabal and they hold grudges, he's never going to get the benefit of the doubt again for the rest of his career

Too bad, we could really use him as a player, but he's too risky now

 

[Jargon]

I'm not interested in Marchment solely because he just blew up his relationship with NHL refs forever this postseason

The refs are a cabal and they hold grudges, he's never going to get the benefit of the doubt again for the rest of his career

Too bad, we could really use him as a player, but he's too risky now

I genuinely care so little about this that I have trouble putting it into words.

 

[sampler]

I have to imagine Grier is going to aggressively try and get Mason Marchment, right? I mean, he’s the son of Grier’s close friend, he’s probably known him his whole life, and he’s the exact kind of player Grier loves. He’d look good with Will Smith, adds size, grit… feels like a key target.

Marchment makes some sense, but hes also 30 (or will be by season start). not exactly the age of a core piece of a rebuild. I would be very happy to get him, but "aggressively" is not how I would describe any efforts. Take him for free, or close to it? Sure. Trade any real assets of value (1st rounders, top prospects)? nope.

That said, he is very much in the mold of Grier's vision. So, we'll see how it goes...

 

[Saskatoon]

Yea I feel like we need to do what Grier did last summer to a degree but this time don't look to ship the players out.

Ceci, Walman, Toffoli, and Wennberg were good adds but shipping out Ceci, Walman, Granlund and Blackwood sank us back down to the bottom. It was fine for last year.

Sure trade UFA's at the trade deadline if they won't or we don't want to resign them. But it is probably time to start keeping decent players when we can.

 

[TheBeard]

When you have an 18 year old Franchise 1C who is showing he is ready and good enough to lead a team to a cup then yes you want to stop rebuilding and start building quickly.

This team has, what, 3 players who as part of the long term plan (maybe) have shown they can be NHL players. Guys like Graf and Askarov and Mukh may be there but 20 game stints don’t prove a whole lot. Celebrini is gonna be Celebrini for a long time, but outside of him and Will this team has very little at the NHL level.

 

[coooldude]

We're at 10+ pages of this stupid Marner debate that never was on the table to happen rather than talk about actual options for next year.

4+ weeks until the draft, not much else to talk about. Everyone has already named most names that might be fits. At least the Marner convo is a proxy convo about the state of the rebuild, the timeline, SJ's attractiveness in free agency, and what kind of top 6 / core we're trying to build. Would you rather talk about which next 3rd liner everyone will be complaining about next year for not scoring 20 goals and for not being as good as a top 6 player? I wouldn't. And if you have better names, throw them out there, I'm sure people will bite.

 

[hockeyball]

This team has, what, 3 players who as part of the long term plan (maybe) have shown they can be NHL players. Guys like Graf and Askarov and Mukh may be there but 20 game stints don’t prove a whole lot. Celebrini is gonna be Celebrini for a long time, but outside of him and Will this team has very little at the NHL level.

That seems pretty normal for a team at this phase of the rebuild. Non high 1st round picks take 2-3-4 years to develop into NHLers best case (in most cases). They are always going to be behind your recent high picks. We cannot build an NHL roster from 1st round picks alone, we would miss our window. You want those high-end players on early low-cost contracts as much as possible, and if you wait for them to all be NHLer's by the time they are a contender you wont be able to afford your own roster.

There's this window where you have a bunch of prospects and have to fish or cut bait so you can time everything just right to be able to afford your team long enough to win a cup and then hope the post cup discounts can keep most of the team together after that for any kind of repeat runs. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, but if you sit around and wait for "sure things" you'll never win anything. You have to have faith in your players, and in your scouts and coaches, and go for it. Generally once you get 1 or 2 elite/generational talent players to build from. For us that's Celebrini and whoever we pick this year most likely. Just behind those guys are the almost sure-things like Askarov, Smith, Eklund, Dickinson (guys you expect to hit, but one or two could bust). Then you have your third tier guys who are either high-end picks who are taking their time or lower picks who are overperforming (Musty, Cherny, Mukh, Graf) and beyond that it's a crap shoot but you hope you get a few gems. Then you go to free agency and trades to fill the gaps when the time is right.

Basically we have already placed our bets and the table is closed and now we have to wait and see (while making some minor adjustments when we can). We have a nearly guarenteed elite top 1c, we have a top goalie prospect (but you don't build around a prospect goalie) and in a few weeks we will either have a sure-thing top pairing D prospect or another top line forward. That's as good as it's going to get for us and we have to role with that group or risk losing our best players to free agency because we didn't take advantage of our opportunity.

 

[Lebanezer]

Edmonton was a game away from the cup last year and are in good position to take another shot at it this year

For arguments sake did Edmonton sign anyone of Marner's significance? James Neal was definitely no Marner.

That was 9 years after drafting McDavid and the Sharks are nowhere near where Edmonton was when they drafted McDavid. They had already had 3 previous #1 overall picks and a roster full of high draft picks and established players. Celebrini is the literal start of the rebuild for the Sharks as he and Smith came in the NHL at the same time and Celebrini is significantly better. Rushing the rebuild now is a mistake, the Sharks are still establishing their baseline performance level and do not have the pieces on the roster or in the system to start plugging holes via trade or taking excessive risks on UFAs. Obviously some exceptions can be made, but that's on a case by case basis and should limit the damage done to the prospect pool and draft picks.

 

[gaucholoco3]

This team has, what, 3 players who as part of the long term plan (maybe) have shown they can be NHL players. Guys like Graf and Askarov and Mukh may be there but 20 game stints don’t prove a whole lot. Celebrini is gonna be Celebrini for a long time, but outside of him and Will this team has very little at the NHL level.

My perfect offseason would be:
Luck into NYI reset and draft Schaefer or trade up for him
Marner 7x$15 mil
Ekblad 7x$9.5 mil
Trade/Waivers for one of Cyulle, Krieder, or Marchment
Allen 3x$4 mil

Eklund - Celebrini - Marner
Krieder - Smith - Toffoli
Afanasyev - Wenberg - Graf
Grundstrom - Goodrow - Dellandrea
Kovalenko

Schaefer - Ekblad
Ferraro - Mukamadulin
Dickinson - Liljegren
Vlasic, Desharnais

Askarov
Allen

I don’t think that roster is rushing the rebuild at all. Rushing the rebuild would be trading futures for a rental piece. This lineup does not require mid level prospects (Chernyshov/Musty) to be a level above where they belong.

If Schaefer is not available I would offer 7 x $9 to Gavrikov as well. Or trade for Dobson, Nemec, Hamilton.

Obviously this is a pipe dream but paying elite talent to join the team in FA is not rushing a rebuild it is making the team better.

There are only 4 players I would offer 7 years to. Ekblad, Gavrikov, Marner, and Bennett.

 

[sampler]

That seems pretty normal for a team at this phase of the rebuild. Non high 1st round picks take 2-3-4 years to develop into NHLers best case (in most cases). They are always going to be behind your recent high picks. We cannot build an NHL roster from 1st round picks alone, we would miss our window. You want those high-end players on early low-cost contracts as much as possible, and if you wait for them to all be NHLer's by the time they are a contender you wont be able to afford your own roster.

There's this window where you have a bunch of prospects and have to fish or cut bait so you can time everything just right to be able to afford your team long enough to win a cup and then hope the post cup discounts can keep most of the team together after that for any kind of repeat runs. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, but if you sit around and wait for "sure things" you'll never win anything. You have to have faith in your players, and in your scouts and coaches, and go for it. Generally once you get 1 or 2 elite/generational talent players to build from. For us that's Celebrini and whoever we pick this year most likely. Just behind those guys are the almost sure-things like Askarov, Smith, Eklund, Dickinson (guys you expect to hit, but one or two could bust). Then you have your third tier guys who are either high-end picks who are taking their time or lower picks who are overperforming (Musty, Cherny, Mukh, Graf) and beyond that it's a crap shoot but you hope you get a few gems. Then you go to free agency and trades to fill the gaps when the time is right.

Basically we have already placed our bets and the table is closed and now we have to wait and see (while making some minor adjustments when we can). We have a nearly guarenteed elite top 1c, we have a top goalie prospect (but you don't build around a prospect goalie) and in a few weeks we will either have a sure-thing top pairing D prospect or another top line forward. That's as good as it's going to get for us and we have to role with that group or risk losing our best players to free agency because we didn't take advantage of our opportunity.

Actually, we can (and are): Because we dealt all the talent (meier, hertl, EK65...) for picks and prospects, we are very close to a team pretty much full of 1st rounders (if you include cherny). Asakarov, celebrini, smith, eklund, chernyshov, dickinson, mukhamadullin, Musty, Bystedt... thats 9 first rounders already. Add in 4-5 more in '25 and '26 (including Misa/schaefer), and you'll have 13-14 first rounders. Then sign a few UFA first rounders (marner, Bennett, Boeser, etc), and you might have a roster pretty close to 100% 1st rounders, about half of which are top 10-11 or so.

By free agency of summer 2026, the table will be fully set. We'll have 13+ 1st rounders in the system all ages 18-23 (mukh = 24). that's far more than enough to build a decade+ dynasty and win multiple cups.

Look at florida:
reinhardt (2nd OA)
barkov (2nd OA)
Tkachuk (6th OA, traded for humberdeau who was 3rd OA)
Bennett (4th OA)
Ekblad (1st OA)
Lundell (12th OA)
Smoskevich (24th OA)
Kulikov (14th OA)
Jones (4th OA)
Boquist (8th OA)
[Not to mention 5 more 2nd rounders]

that's 10 1st round picks including 7 picked in the top 10 (nine in the top 14).

The sharks are just the '25 and '26 draft away from assembling a similar talent pool (or, frankly, even better), and signing a few top UFAs would give them the most stacked roster in the league. Now, most of those guys are 26-29 years old (hence in their primes), so the sharks would still be a few years away from the Cup even after the '26 draft, but by '29 or '30, many of those guys would be entering their mid 20's and the sharks will be the best team in the league.

Grier needs to stay the course, but he also needs to utilize the cap space to add futures, not just throw it away on Luke Kunins and barclay Goodrows who eat up significant space but provide next to nothing in trade. Instead he needs to add guys who he can flip for serious capital, so come summer '26, he'll be armed with so many picks, so many prospects ready for the NHL, and so much cap space, that the sky is the limit.

 

[weastern bias]

I genuinely care so little about this that I have trouble putting it into words.

If you really want to add a player who is going to have the refs' target on his back that's your prerogative, we saw what it looked like when Evander Kane played here, he led the league in minor penalties while getting mugged by Vegas and Anaheim with no calls going in his favor, I don't want to add the 2.0 version of that situation to our roster

If you want a meanie just overpay Bennett instead, the refs let him purposefully concuss the Leafs' starting goalie out of the playoffs without so much as a 2 minute penalty, that guy has the green light whereas Marchment is about to be thrown under the bus

 

[TheBeard]

My perfect offseason would be:
Luck into NYI reset and draft Schaefer or trade up for him
Marner 7x$15 mil
Ekblad 7x$9.5 mil
Trade/Waivers for one of Cyulle, Krieder, or Marchment
Allen 3x$4 mil

Eklund - Celebrini - Marner
Krieder - Smith - Toffoli
Afanasyev - Wenberg - Graf
Grundstrom - Goodrow - Dellandrea
Kovalenko

Schaefer - Ekblad
Ferraro - Mukamadulin
Dickinson - Liljegren
Vlasic, Desharnais

Askarov
Allen

I don’t think that roster is rushing the rebuild at all. Rushing the rebuild would be trading futures for a rental piece. This lineup does not require mid level prospects (Chernyshov/Musty) to be a level above where they belong.

If Schaefer is not available I would offer 7 x $9 to Gavrikov as well. Or trade for Dobson, Nemec, Hamilton.

Obviously this is a pipe dream but paying elite talent to join the team in FA is not rushing a rebuild it is making the team better.

There are only 4 players I would offer 7 years to. Ekblad, Gavrikov, Marner, and Bennett.

Adding 45 million in free agent cap space a year after two consecutive last place finishes is an absolutely insane strategy.

 

[Painful Quandary]

Adding 45 million in free agent cap space a year after two consecutive last place finishes is an absolutely insane strategy.

And not only that but who is targeted considering our timeline. Giving Ekblad seven years is insane considering is history of injuries. Giving Marner seven years is insane considering his history in the playoffs. Giving Allen anything more than a one-year is insane considering how poorly he did with the Devils this season. The team should not use cap space this early on skaters we are going to regret signing four years from now and roster space on a goalie we will regret in one to two years, because that is the sort of thing that happened with the Canucks with Jim Benning.

 

[TheBeard]

And not only that but who is targeted considering our timeline. Giving Ekblad seven years is insane considering is history of injuries. Giving Marner seven years is insane considering his history in the playoffs. Giving Allen anything more than a one-year is insane considering how poorly he did with the Devils this season. The team should not use cap space this early on skaters we are going to regret signing four years from now and roster space on a goalie we will regret in one to two years, because that is the sort of thing that happened with the Canucks with Jim Benning.

I don’t mind 3-4 year deals including overpayments but 7 years is just too much overlap. Either you trust your scouting department to find the right guys over the years or you don’t.